Your views on human beings having a sin nature

[e v e]

Christ incarnated differently than us
and took a huge step down
into this ape body

to save us ...



where we were tortured out of our original body made by God (cf. daniels oven chapter)
... tortured by the satanic realm
-- which realm adam caused us by his evil to be turned over to --
we had sinned and followed adam
trusting in adam and not God



Christ came the same way
to this earth to save us
-- being tortured by them and then incarnating --
however He had not sinned
yet came the same way as us to this
prison hellhole earth
to get us out

the flesh body is the idol

 

[e v e]

Christ is not from here.

 

[sawdust]

Seems I've already said that 1000 times right here.

SO then Jesus was not tempted: AS WE ARE, if the temptation didn't start with HIS OWN HUMAN LUST (strong personal desire).

I still don't get what you think I've said that suggests to you I think Jesus wasn't tempted like us. If I knew that, I might be able to give a meaningful answer to your question.

 

[Diserner]

Let's take a little deeper look at this verse:

For we have not a high-priest unable to have fellow-feeling with our weaknesses, but one tested in all respects, by way of likeness, apart from sin.
(Heb. 4:15 ROT)

The way a lot of people read it is, "Jesus was tempted just exactly as we are without actually sinning."

But most of the time when the Bible uses the singular "sin" instead of a plural in this way, it is talking about the sin principle.

Now, if what I wish not, the same, I do, no longer am, I, working it out, but the, sin, that dwelleth in me. (Rom. 7:20 ROT)

Paul is not saying that literal physical acts of murder and adultery dwell in him—external acts can't live in someone.

Now one thing about false religion is it always wants to externalize sin, to maintain a sense of self-righteous being.

So clearly Hebrews 4:15 is NOT drawing an exact parallel between Jesus' temptation and nature, and ours, for it adds a very clear qualifier:

APART FROM SIN.

Not "withing committing a sin," but actually "separated from the sin principle."

And thank God Jesus wasn't exactly like us, because we are not born with halos as pure holy creatures.

We need redemption.

 

[Diserner]

And just to be pedantic, I will point out Jesus never faced the temptation of being molested as a child, and all the pain and resentment that brings.

Jesus never faced the temptation of being born with a crippling nerve disease, tempted with the feeling to resent God and feel rejected for it.

Jesus was never tempted with believing God did not forgive his sins, because Jesus never sinned.

There are things females face that he just did not have to face.

There are literally millions of specific scenarios Jesus was never tempted with in his entire life.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Some of us believe the fall resulted in the birth of a sin nature in Adam.

That's nothing but just another "Theological Theory". All God's Chilluns gots "Theologies".

Adam SINNED WITHOUT the benefit of a "Sin Nature". The immediate result was that Eve and Adam DIED SPIRITUALLY, and became lost humans.

NOTHING in their HUMAN NATURE changed. only their environment - as the result of the EARTH BEING CURSED - for their sakes. No more "Free Lunch in the Garden" NOW they had to WORK to survive.

Personally, I Never needed a "Sin Nature" to sin my HUMAN NATURE accomplished my spiritual death just fine according to the ground rules in James 1: 14,15 - just the same as Eve, and then Adam did.

THE UNFORTUNATE after effect, however, was that in tossing God under the bus in favor of satan's promise, was that Adam's DOMINION (Gen 1:26) over the earth, was turned over to satan who STILL HOLDS IT ("god of this world" / "prince of the power of the air").

 

[e v e]

THE UNFORTUNATE after effect, however, was that in tossing God under the bus in favor of satan's promise, was that Adam's DOMINION (Gen 1:26) over the earth, was turned over to satan who STILL HOLDS IT ("god of this world" / "prince of the power of the air").

yes

 

[Frank Russell]

Some of us believe the fall resulted in the birth of a sin nature in Adam. That is because all people shared in Adam’s guilt, this sin nature was passed on to all future generations. As a result, sin is pervasive in every man and woman. And it is out of this sin nature that we do sinful acts. I'd like to know what some of the rest of us believe on this topic.

Rom. 5:12
Therefore, as sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men, [no one being able to stop it or to escape its power] because all men sinned.

1 Cor. 15:22
For just as [because of their union of nature] in Adam all people die, so also [by virtue of their union of nature] shall all in Christ be made alive.

Mark 7:20–23
20 And He said, What comes out of a man is what makes a man unclean and renders [him] unhallowed.
21 For from within, [that is] out of the hearts of men, come base and wicked thoughts, sexual immorality, stealing, murder, adultery,
22 Coveting (a greedy desire to have more wealth), dangerous and destructive wickedness, deceit; unrestrained (indecent) conduct; an evil eye (envy), slander (evil speaking, malicious misrepresentation, abusiveness), pride (the sin of an uplifted heart against God and man), foolishness (folly, lack of sense, recklessness, thoughtlessness).
23 All these evil [purposes and desires] come from within, and they make the man unclean and render him unhallowed

My view on this is that when someone is born again, their spirit is revived and they gain a new heart and a new mind.

These born again people still have the same body as before, this body has a mind and heart of its own.

In the beginning of this process, the spiritual mind and heart is not developed.

However, as the born again person matures through faith and communion with the Holy Spirit daily this invisible nature that can relate to God matures.

As the spirit self matures, it takes up more and more space and influence over the body until the mind still residing in the physical body decides it is not going to take it anymore.

This conflict is part of being a spiritual christian. However, teaching in the calvin-armin dichotomy has been observed to provoke the inevitable conflict to the point of schizophrenia or other similar mental disorders.

So the flesh nature and the spirit nature reside side by side in a person who has been born again by the Holy Spirit. That is my view.

 

[sawdust]

NOTHING in their HUMAN NATURE changed.

That's right because our human nature is in our soul, created in the image and likeness of God, whereas the sin nature is in our bodies, another law that entered Adam's body when he sinned and mutated his DNA and is passed on genetically so as to make us susceptible to sickness, disease and death (Jn.3:6 flesh gives birth to flesh). We do not get our human nature from our parents, we get that from God who creates our souls, life that only God can create. (Gen1:27)

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The essence of our soul is:
consciousness (of others and self)
mentality (reason, imagination problem solving)
emotion
volition
conscience

 

[e v e]

That's right because our human nature is in our soul, created in the image and likeness of God, whereas the sin nature is in our bodies, another law that entered Adam's body when he sinned and mutated his DNA and is passed on genetically so as to make us susceptible to sickness, disease and death (Jn.3:6 flesh gives birth to flesh). We do not get our human nature from our parents, we get that from God who creates our souls, life that only God can create. (Gen1:27)

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The essence of our soul is:
consciousness (of others and self)
mentality (reason, imagination problem solving)
emotion
volition
conscience

this fleshbody from adam is an idol and abomination

 

[e v e]

this flesh body = sin nature

this earth = sin nature

this current cosmology = sin nature

 

[e v e]

eden paradise which is out land is not part of this current cosmology.

eden was never on this earth.

our body in eden is not the type fleshbody we have now.

 

[Rockson]

I do believe mankind has a sin nature but I don't believe he's so totally corrupt that he cannot have a desire for God. In other words I reject totally depravity that Calvinists teach. I know the verse of scripture used, "There is none righteous no not one....and that no one even seeks for the good....." Rom 3:10 is used to say by some there's no good nor is it possible for there to be good in an unsaved person. Is that really ready the text correctly? I think not. Paul was using hyperbole as we do today when we might say nobody cares about anyone anymore ....everyone is just so greedy. In saying the statement we know the person isn't saying nobody really cares. It's just an expression for effect.

Now back to the sin nature belief. I think when ones even looks at nature, animals and all sorts of creatures.....it looks like something must have happened to their natures after the fall. Even with something as small as insects....were there hornets and yellow jackets which would sting people or the things that snakes do with vemon? Rom 8:19 seems to state that even the physicals creation was effected when spiritual death came into the earth. If the nature of animals was changed...why wouldn't man's nature itself have been effected too?

When life spiritual life left Adam and Eve or the glory of God departed why wouldn't man have been effected? It seems everything else was. Two verses I think should leave us to believe that we are a sinner by nature.....and that we're not a sinner because we sin. There is a difference. Eph 2:3 states we once had the nature of wrath......and 2 Cor 5:17 states we who have received Christ became a new creature in Christ Jesus with the life of God within.

2 Pt 1:4 says we've become a partaker of the divine nature. I believe this all connects to verses in 1 John which talks about the seed of LIFE....eternal life that's born in our spirit which makes us more prone to be more loving.....doesn't mean we'll never fail but your inner spirit doesn't delight in sin as it once did. That to me would have to constitute a change of nature.

 

[e v e]

this fleshbody and its natural mind are sin nature

 

[sawdust]

this fleshbody and its natural mind are sin nature

No, the sin nature is in the flesh (another law) but not the flesh itself. Only the mind set on the flesh is predisposed to sin and held captive to it.

Rom.7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 8:5
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

Grace and truth set us free from the law of sin.

 

[Obadiah]

What about slaves too sin, Isn't that our nature before salvation?

When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! Romans 6:20

We are either slaves to sin, which is our natural state, or we are slaves to Christ. When sin is our master, we are unable to resist it. It's our nature, it comes natural to us.

 

[Azriel]

The fall resulted in the birth of a sin nature in Adam. The sin nature was passed on to all future generations. It didn't take long for it to manifest in Cain slaying Abel. It was passed along until it got so bad God deemed the flood necessary. I don't think the sin nature is something you can ignore.

 

[sawdust]

I don't think the sin nature is something you can ignore.

I absolutely agree. What we need to understand is what it is, where it is, how it works and what are the mechanics in overcoming it. It seems to me there are two basic camps that people fall into. Either they refuse to acknowledge there is such a thing or they think that somehow having a sin nature makes you an evil person.

Romans 7 is a lesson in teaching us we are intrinsically flawed but it does not teach us we are intrinsically evil. There is a huge difference. It exposes the disparity between the flesh (body) and the mind (soul). If we were intrinsically evil it would be impossible for God to save us. We would be in a permanent state of rejecting truth, the very thing one needs to be saved, which is the reason people go to the lake of fire. They don't go there because of their sin, but because they reject the truth. The issue of sin has been dealt with once and for all on the Cross by the Lamb of God. (Jn.1:29) No-one is prevented from coming to God because of their sin. That all sin has been declared "paid in full" is the true universalism. The issue in salvation is not sin, but what do you think of Christ. This is why Paul preached "Christ crucified" and not "you rotten sinner you're going to hell".

John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I think also the problem is that we call it the sin "nature" which is somewhat of a misnomer. It is not our nature. Our nature is to be human and that nature is in our soul, created in the image and likeness of God. But that nature gets warped because we are spiritually dead, having no capacity to know God, and the temptations of the sin nature working in the flesh draw us away into error.

It's ironic really because the flesh cries out to us "save yourself" and the soul recognises the need to be saved (it's why we cover up our sin) but we have no power or understanding as to how to do that. Instead we destroy ourselves for lack of wisdom, understanding and any real power to fix the problem. Is it any wonder we end up "what a wretched man I am" (Rom.7:24)

Enter the Good News of Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

Good topic.

What we call "sin nature" is actually a Law of God being broken, as the Law given in the garden was broken, introducing sin to humans.

It all snowballed from there.

We are simply born to break God's Laws of the entire OT, and cannot help it.

We as sinners to God, are technically, "Law breakers".

 

[101G]

What we call "sin nature" is actually a Law of God being broken, as the Law given in the garden was broken, introducing sin to humans.

so then is sin Concrete, or abstract, or its results are.?

101G.