Diserner
Well-known member
All I can think of is that it is where our DNA comes from. That alone could have a lot of implications.
Spiritual DNA too.
All I can think of is that it is where our DNA comes from. That alone could have a lot of implications.
That would be like brothers in Christ.Spiritual DNA too.
That would be like brothers in Christ.
that is not exactly true.Of course it does.
It's a gnostic belief that the body and material world are somehow evil.
body and world as terms are not univocal. cheers.
if you believe that this current earth and this current fallen type of rotting body are from God,Context clearly showed which kind I meant.
Cheers.
You really think that means the physical body?
Your foot and your nose are sinful?!
What part of the body do you think is dead when you're in Christ, the sin nature perhaps. And now we're alive to Christ and walking in the spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit.
Adam did not sin in "exactly" the same way that is false.
He was not dragged by any desire inside him, that is false.
Absolutely. Same strawman that says Humans have a "SIN NATURE" since the fall (since we obviously don'r require one).Yes, you can sin without a sin nature. It's a straw man to say that no sin nature means you can't sin.
And They both DID die spiritually - instantly right where they stood.God said in the day he ate it HE WOULD DIE.
Supposedly "WITHOUT A SIN NATURE". So nothing in their "Natures" changed.Before we get saved we're in the flesh and the flesh wants to do what the flesh wants to do. Whether you call it a sin nature or not the results are the same.
They ate from the tree because they had free will and they were tempted and chose to disobey God.
Yes which is why we get new glorified and incorruptible bodies at the Resurrectionthe fleshbody is rotten Flesh Nature and cannot go to heaven.
Correct nothing in the image of God in man changed. augustine brought that pagan/gnostic/Greek concept into the churchSupposedly "WITHOUT A SIN NATURE". So nothing in their "Natures" changed.
Hmm - didn't know it was Augustine. He seems to have brought a bunch of questionable concepts into our theologies..Correct nothing in the image of God in man changed. augustine brought that pagan/gnostic/Greek concept into the church
Yes quite a few of them.Hmm - didn't know it was Augustine. He seems to have brought a bunch of questionable concepts into our theologies..
Yes which is why we get new glorified and incorruptible bodies at the Resurrection
Because it's not the sin nature that makes us sin. It only acts as a tempter to sin much like the serpent in the garden. In Adam's case the serpent was external, for us the serpent is internal (Rom.7:23 in the flesh by way of corrupted DNA) but the choice to sin comes from the soul by rejecting God's desire for us and following through with our own desires. Sin begins with the way you think which is why Jesus would say "if you lust in your heart you have already committed adultery". (Matt.5:28)WHY did Adam (after Eve) toss God under the bus, and side with satan against Him WITHOUT THE BENEFIT of a SIN NATURE ??
we got our current type of human nature from adam...So then, WHY did Adam (after Eve) toss God under the bus, and side with satan against Him WITHOUT THE BENEFIT of a SIN NATURE ??
Bottom line: Adam WITH HIS HUMAN NATURE (same as we all have), followed the James 1:14,15 "temptation sequence" in exactly the way the rest of us do. Drawn away of HIS OWN LUST (strong INTERNAL personal desire), and "Enticed" (External influences - the urging of the "Serpent" in Eve's, and then Adam's cases).
Result: Eve, and then Adam allowed their OWN lusts to "Concieve" resulting in the birth of SINFUL ACTIONS. i.e. they did exactly what God had told them NOT to do.
There's no such thing as a "Sin Nature" (that's nothing but human "theology"). The only thing that made Adam's sin "Original" was that it was the FIRST ONE (actually the second after Eve).
Adam and Eve DID Instantly die SPIRITUALLY, and then after many years they died Physically. It's not revealed whether or not they ever re-established their relationship with God. Able knew to respect God, while Cain didn't.
God's reaction to A & E's SIN was to radically alter their ENVIRONMENT (He cursed the earth) to the state that it's in today, and eliminated their "Free lunch".
HE also cursed the "Serpent", apparently changing it physically (we have NO IDEA what the "Serpent" was in the Garden).
YOU and I, however, share NOTHING about Adam, OTHER THAN that we all have the same HUMAN NATURE that Adam, Jesus, and we were all born with.
Jesus was tempted in every respect AS WE ARE, but never allowed HIS "lust" to "Conceive" and become SINFUL ACTIONS. "Temptation" isn't SIN, ACTING ON IT is where SIN occurs.
WE, on the other hand INVARIABLY will allow our lust to conceive and produce SIN. Not EVERY TIME, but only once does the job. We don't need Adam's guilt - we're completely capable of providing our own, as soon as we can.
And Babies are conceived, and subsequently born INNOCENT inheriting NO GUILT from Adam whatsoever. They have a HUMAN NATURE, and will naturally fall into sin on their own. David expected to meet HIS baby in Heaven when He dies, just like I expect to meet Angeline (out first born who didn't make it) when I get there.