we can forgive you for misunderstanding scripture. We'll try to get you on track.
You shall worship the Lord you God only.
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Micaiah
Active member
Read the Holy Bible more frequently:
“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” (1 Timothy 4:16, KJV)
Get to it.
I will continue to read it and share truth with people. thanks. I can help teach you too.
Micaiah
Active member
First:
Get rid of all of the extra biblical leaven and you will be back on track.
Baby steps again…
done. Now you repent and acknowledge the deity of Christ to which scriptures gives abundant testimony.
Richard
Active member
If you are trying to understand the theophonic appearances of God in the O.T, in light of John 1:18, you need to understand the meaning of the word John uses.
In verse 18, John says,
If John is arguing from the first definition, this needs to be understood in the light of pragmatic Old Testament examples. We know from the many examples of theophonic manifestations in the Old Testament that God has repeatedly presented himself to man in a number of ways. At times, God availed himself only to man’s auditory senses. He spoke to Adam, to Cain, to Noah, to the Hebrew patriarchs, to Moses, to the prophets, and to others. Sometimes he visited himself upon man in the form of dreams or visions as to the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah chapter six. Other times, he appears as objects such as the cloud or the pillar of fire that went before Israel in the wilderness. Still, there are other times when he visited man in human form. There are some eight accounts of this type of theophany found in the Old Testament.
The second word is “ἑώρακεν”. If “ἑώρακεν” is to be understood as an intellectual limitation, this would seem to fit better with the closing statement of this prologue. “He has explained him.” The Greek word “ἐξηγήσατο” means to set forth in detail, to set forth in language, to make known or to reveal (George V. Wagram’s Analytical Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, 1983). This is the etymology of our word ‘exegete’. In other words,
hermeneutics stackexchange
In verse 18, John says,
There are two words that need to be addressed in this statement by John. The first is the word “ἑώρακεν” that is translated here as "seen" in most of the English translations. The word is third person singular of “ὁράω” which, according to Thayer, has three basic definitions. First, it means to see with the eyes. Secondly, it means to see with the mind, to know, to perceive. Thirdly, it means to become acquainted with through pragmatic experience (The 1981 New Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon, p 451).
If John is arguing from the first definition, this needs to be understood in the light of pragmatic Old Testament examples. We know from the many examples of theophonic manifestations in the Old Testament that God has repeatedly presented himself to man in a number of ways. At times, God availed himself only to man’s auditory senses. He spoke to Adam, to Cain, to Noah, to the Hebrew patriarchs, to Moses, to the prophets, and to others. Sometimes he visited himself upon man in the form of dreams or visions as to the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah chapter six. Other times, he appears as objects such as the cloud or the pillar of fire that went before Israel in the wilderness. Still, there are other times when he visited man in human form. There are some eight accounts of this type of theophany found in the Old Testament.
The second word is “ἑώρακεν”. If “ἑώρακεν” is to be understood as an intellectual limitation, this would seem to fit better with the closing statement of this prologue. “He has explained him.” The Greek word “ἐξηγήσατο” means to set forth in detail, to set forth in language, to make known or to reveal (George V. Wagram’s Analytical Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, 1983). This is the etymology of our word ‘exegete’. In other words,
The Logos presents God to the mind of man through the medium of human language in such a way that man is now able to understand something of the nature and character of God that he could never know from his observation of the natural world. Only the one who came out of the very presence of God could have done this.
hermeneutics stackexchange
Micaiah
Active member
Christ definitely has a divine nature:
“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:4, KJV)
What exactly that means will be clear when we finally see him in that day.
“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” (1 Corinthians 13:12, KJV)
Certainly we shall be in the Son of God who is of the Godhead. It shall be interesting to eventually find what that entails.
Also, can you find a single verse that says, "Jesus is not God?"
Jesus is my Lord and Savior, sent to me from His God and my God, the Father of all, and to this day HE advocates between His God and Father, and me. When HE walked the earth, He was a man, tempted in all ways as other men, but HE didn't give in to the Temptation and sin. There are those who imply that this was no big deal for Him, because they preach that HE wasn't a man, but God, who just looked like a man. And so when HE was tempted, HE just kicked in some God power no other human has ever had access to, and in this way HE overcame. And that since HE was His own God, raised Himself from the death, and then gave Himself all the Glory and power for simply "being God". "Take Heed" of these "Many" my friend, not to be deceived by their seductive traditions and philosophies. Study for yourself in obedience/faith.
I advocate that men believe and follow the commands and instructions of this Lord's Christ "of the Bible", as dictated in the Holy Scriptures. Including, but not limited to, the many warnings about religious men of this world God placed us in, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who "come in His Name", who "cast out demons in His Name", but have rejected much of the commandments, judgments and Words of God that the Jesus "of the bible" told us to "live by".
The following is just a few Inspired Scriptures, some of which as spoken by Jesus Himself, that tells men about His Father, who HE calls, "The One True God". As you will see, Jesus knew the difference between Himself, and His Father who HE said was greater than HE.
Clearly Jesus was not His own God, contrary to this world's "many" who call Him Lord, Lord.
You asked for verses that said Jesus wasn't God.
Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou "me" good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto "the Father": for "my Father" is greater than I.
Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "the sceptre" of thy kingdom (Jesus) is a right sceptre. 7 Thou (The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy" ((The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus') God, hath anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (All other men born of a woman)
1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have "an advocate" with "the Father", "Jesus Christ" the righteous: (The Sceptor of His Father's Kingdom)
1. Jesus as man - many and us held that belief maybe before your church existed.
2. One God - many and us held that belief maybe before the existence of your church.
3. What you have to prove here is just a single verse that says, "Jesus is not God." And I did not see the exact words from your quoted verses.
My church existed before Abraham.
Thanks for the spirit filled reply and examination of the Scriptures I posted at your request.
So, Judaism is your faith. And we are also a branch of the Abrahamic faith.
Then, can you provide the exact wordings that says “Jesus is not God?”
Because the Updated ASV+ render
John 1:18, No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7 who is in the bosom of the Father, N8 that one has made him fully known.
And the note N7 there states that the oldest manuscripts papyrus 66 and papyrus 75 supported it as the original wordings. See below;
N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)
The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).
Perhaps you have simply misplaced or mistakenly omitted a question mark, and you are not judging me as it appears, rather, you are asking the question, "So, Judaism is your faith?"
In either case, I would remind you of what I actually said, "My church existed before Abraham". And would ask that you would offer the simplest and most basic courtesy by answering a couple of questions necessary to respond to your judgment, or your question, whichever it was.
In your religion, what is "Judaism"?
Is it "Yielding oneself" to God and our bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God, as Noah, Abraham, Jesus and the Apostles did?
Or is it, as the Jesus "of the bible" proclaims, "Full well rejecting the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition"? In other words, was Jesus a Judaizer, or were the mainstream religious sects of His Time, the Pharisees, the Judaizer?
Is it being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish the righteousness of men, refusing to submit themselves unto the righteousness of God?
Or is it denying ourself, and "Living By" Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God?
For some reason the promoters of this world's religious system, in all of it's differing religious sects and philosophies, refuse to honestly engage in any honest way regarding their definition of this word "Judaism" that they wield like a sword. How could a man reply to your question or judgment, whichever it is, unless he understands the definition of the word you are using?
I look forward in hope of your honest engagement.
Again, the Church I belong to existed "before Abraham", as I clearly stated. Abraham was also a member of God's Church, was he not? As was Noah, and Abel who both existed "before" Abraham. I can find no evidence that Abraham created his own "branch" or religious sect. In fact, here is what is actually written in the holy Scriptures.
Gen. 18: 17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; 18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I (God) know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
It's the "Way of the Lord" that Abraham walked in. Not the "way of Abraham" that became a religious sect or "branch". Noah walked in the same "way". So did Moses and Caleb and Joshua and Shadrack, and David and Zacharias and Simeon and Anna and Matthew, and Paul and Cornelius and every example of faithful men who adopted God's church over this world's religious system. A religious system Eve adopted by "Yielding herself a servant to obey" the "other voice" in the world God placed her in.
Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, (God's Church) and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
I don't believe Jesus was His own God based on the actual Word's HE spoke.
Just because the religious sects of this world doesn't believe these Words inspired by God, doesn't make them any less truthful, in my view. Especially since Jesus warned several times to "Take heed" specifically of men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuse to be a "Doer" of His Sayings.
It is fascinating to me really, having separated myself from this world's religious system for nearly 30 years now, how religious men have been convinced that AI, or modern translations, or learning other languages can teach us things about Jesus that even HE, His Father, nor the Prophets His Father Sent, ever knew.
And the practice of taking one sentence, and using it to destroy or make void volumes of other Scriptures, is a popular practice no doubt, and used to justify differing religious philosophies of "every" religious sect of this world, "who come in Christ's Name". Catholics, Bereans, Calvinists, JW's, Baptists, Mormons, Methodists and on and on and on. Even the serpent in the garden used "some" of God's Word to deceive Eve.
But who did Jesus Himself say HE was, according to the same John?
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom "the Father hath sanctified", "and sent" into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am "the Son of God"?
And who did God Himself, that no man but Christ has ever seen, tell us who Jesus was.
Matt. 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw "the Spirit of God" descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is "my beloved Son", "in whom" I am well pleased.
And who did the Author of Hebrews say Jesus was.
Heb. 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself "to be made an high priest"; but he that said unto him, "Thou art my Son", to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 Who in the days "of his flesh", when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto "him" that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though "he were a Son", yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being "made perfect", he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
And what were Jesus' Last Words according to Luke, that HE spoke before HE died?
Luke 23: 34 Then said Jesus, "Father", forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
I could go on, and would be glad to if you would like. But all these verses and many more tells us clearly that "Jesus is not God", rather, HE is the Son of God, sent by God to reconcile us to Him, and is advocating on my behalf between His Father and me to this day.
Why would I believe in or promote another Jesus?
I will not make my reply long enough, if I understand it right from this forum guidelines we are allowed to post a quite number of words.
I noticed you quotes New Testament verses, where majority of Jews did not accept Jesus yet, but somehow I believe will. (Rom 11:25-27.
This is what I understand about "Judaism, is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion and the oldest of the Abrahamic faiths, alongside Christianity and Islam. It is the religion of the Jewish people and is centered around the belief in one God and the teachings of the Hebrew Bible (also known as the Tanakh)."https://www.google.com/search?q=jus...0i10i512l5.1744j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
You quote John 10:36, of which Jesus said He is the "Son of God". I believe there is a deep meaning of that.
Jesus as the "Son of man" as His mother is human Mary, is He man or not?
Jesus as the "Son of God" as His Father is God, is He God or not? Why the honest and logical answer of the above question cannot be applied to this question? May I know some explanation?
FYI, there is no forum guidelines as to how long a post can be. There is a limit as to how many characters one can type on a given post though, and a pop up will appear when this limit is reached, I believe it is 10,000 characters. (letters, punctuation, etc.) A man can then continue in another post to express or share his reply. This happens all the time on this forum.
It's a great study platform to share and/or discern the difference between what is actually written, and the deceptions Jesus warned about. Personally I like posts where men share their understanding of Scriptures in search of their true meaning. Not so much when they just copy and paste internet sermons.
This is a great truth to understand in my view, and thanks for sharing it. The OT is completely filled with examples of "Jews" outwardly, who didn't believe in the Gospel of Christ that was shown unto them. From the very beginning there have been voices in the world God placed us in, that will work to convince us Gods Word cannot be trusted, and if we listen to them, we will be convinced, as the scriptures clearly show. There are examples of this all over the Bible since Adam and Eve. Noah, Abraham, Caleb, Shadrack, Meshach and Abednego, Daniel, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the bible is full of examples of people who were "Jews inwardly". Like Noah, Abraham, Zacharias and Elizabeth, these folks knew of, believed on and waited for the Lord's Christ long before HE was even born, when most of the men around them had adopted the philosophies of the "other voice" in the garden God placed them in.
But my question to you, is who adopted "Judaism" in the Bible, in the context you used it when you labeled me as a man practicing Judaism?
Can you not see how important this question is?
I was hoping for more than a copy and paste from Google.
That's OK if you don't know or are uncomfortable discussing it. But I would like to point out some foolishness in the Godless Google.
Abraham didn't create a religion. There is no "Abrahamic religion" spoken of, written about, or otherwise promoted in the Entire Inspired Word of God, including the New Testament, that wasn't even published until centuries after the members of the Body of Christ in Acts had all died and were buried. You cannot find any teaching that speaks to an "Abrahamic religion". If you think you can please do so. But if you can't, please confess so others might by warned of the same deception.
According to what is actually written in Scriptures, Abraham "Yielded himself" a servant to obey God, like Noah, Caleb, Zacharias, Simeon, Peter, James, Paul, Shadrack, Daniel and EVERY example of Faith in the entire Holy Scriptures did, including the Author and Finisher of my Faith, the Jesus "of the bible".
I know this because the Word of God, that became Flesh, Told me. And I believe in Him.
Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed "my" voice, and kept "my" charge, "my" commandments, "my" statutes, and "my" laws.
Paul called the Law and Prophets, the only scriptures which existed in his Time, "The Holy Scriptures" that are Inspired by God. You promote a voice that teaches they are the "Hebrew Bible". Are they not the Inspired Word of God that HE gave to the Hebrew People?
My friend, be careful who you receive your instruction from.
https://www.google.com/search?q=jus...0i10i512l5.1744j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
There are "many" voices, in this world God placed me in, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but do not believe or profess that the Christ, the Rock of Israel, became a mortal, Flesh and Blood human being, at the behest of His Father. They promote the religious philosophy that the Christ came to earth as immortal God. That HE risked nothing for no one. That when the going got tough, as it does for all humans, Jesus just kicked in some God Power no other human has ever had access to, and in this way HE overcame Sin and temptation on earth. After all, God can not Sin, God can not die. God can't even be tempted. So in this popular religious philosophy, promoted by this world's religious system, Jesus' whole life is a scam. He couldn't Sin because HE was God. So what did HE overcome? He couldn't be Tempted because HE was God? So the Bible lied about Him being tempted in all ways as His Brethren. But who are His Brethren? How many "Gods" are there that His Father would give Him a name greater than all other Gods? He couldn't die, so what was the whole "Crucify" thing about? And therefore wasn't "Raised from the dead", because HE couldn't die in the first place. God cannot die.
So what was the Glory that God gave to God? What is so special about God not sinning?
This philosophy makes a mockery of Jesus' entire Life. It demeans His Sacrifice in a way that gives me goose bumps to even think about it. And it is promoted by "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".
We have all been deceived by this spirit. And like Abraham and Israel and Nicodemus and Paul, we need to repent and turn to God, and "come out of her" this world's religious system of hundreds of different religions all competing with each other for contributing members. AKA "Babylon"
A religious system that rejects and despises God's Judgments and definitions of Good, Clean, Holy, and true, and creates their own judgments and establishes their own Righteousness. A religious system that rejects God's Statutes and Sabbaths, and creates their own sabbaths and high days that the merchants of the earth are made extremely wealthy promoting. While the Feasts of the Lord are relegated by them as worthless Jewish Traditions. A religious system that creates images of the sacrifice God provided for them and they say to the world, "This is the god that brought us out of the bondage of sin", as they point to an image of God after the likeness of some random very handsome long haired man, in the same exact way Israel pointed to the image they created of a sacrifice God provided for them.
This was all prophesied in the Exodus.
I must trust God's Inspired Word over this world's religious sects. According to God's Inspired word, Jesus is God's High Priest. Jesus was Sent by God to be my Lord and Savior. Jesus was sent By God to "show me in the way that I should go". Jesus is my Advocate between His God, the One True God according to HIS Own Words, and me. According to the Word of God, Jesus is at His Father's Kingdom preparing a place for me.
Jesus said there is One True God, and it was HIS Father, who Glorified Him. HE didn't Glorify Himself.
Remember, you are promoting the philosophies of a religion that Transgresses God's commandments that they might promote their own traditions. In the quite times of your mind, look into the Law of Liberty, and you will see that this is true. That's the easy part. It's "doing" something about that "costs" you. And Jesus said to count the cost.
We are all born into a world, placed here by God, in which "other voices" exist. And both you and I are taught by them to cherry-pick through the Word of God and only dwell on Scriptures that can be used to justify the philosophies of our adopted religion. Catholics have their list of acceptable and unacceptable Scriptures. Bereans have their list. Calvinists have their list. JW's have their list. The Pharisees had their list of verses to reject, and a list of verses to accept. And as it turns out, the serpent in the garden also had a list of God's Words that it used, and a list of God's Words that it omitted.
This is an honest, undeniable Truth that is ugly to be sure. But undeniably true just the same.
The Bible itself, the Inspired Word of God, promotes a different philosophy. It teaches that men shall "Live by" EVERY Word of God, and not the course of this world that is and has always been "Partial in the Law".
I don't know if you can accept this or not. Jesus said the Straight Path is narrow, and few will enter. But I hope you might consider, not my words, but Every Word God placed in His Christ's Mouth, His Prophets mouth, the disciples HE gave to Jesus' mouth. and trust the Holy scriptures, like Paul taught, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".
These discussions are good to have, in my view.
Ok, so, it was a limit of characters not of words and a notice when when we reach the limit. Thanks for the info.
There are only two verses I see that mentioned "Judaism", Gal 1:13-14. In King James it is "Jews religion" which Greek as "Ioudaismos" defined by Bible lexicon as the Jewish faith, Judaism the character and condition of a Jew, practice of the Jewish religion, the Jewish faith and worship and etc.
Who adopted Judaism? I believe Abraham the father of faith. (Gal 3:6)
Abrahamic religion cannot be found in the Bible, just like the Bible. I believe that the three dominant religion, the Islam, Judaism and Christianity were one in the belief of the a Creator God down to Abraham and so on, especially Judaism and Christianity, while the Islam brothers instead to Isaac but to Ishmael. That's what I understand of the called Abrahamic faith.
Yes, The Law, the Prophet and the Writings referred by Jesus as the Scriptures. (Luke 24:44-45)
The Father gave to the Jews the oracles of God. (Rom 3:1-2)
Jesus emptied Himself the form of God, take the form of a servant in the likeness of man with limitations.
Your points refer to Jesus in the nature of God, but when He was on earth He is in the nature of man in a sinful flesh from his human mother Mary. Can be tempted but chose not to sin, a great example for us to emulate. Died and resurrected, a good news for us that there's a hope to enjoy resurrection if we are in Christ.
If you trust the Inspired word of God, do that include the New Testament?
How about the words of the Father Himself, do you believe Heb 1:8-9 as truth?
Yes, we always tried to what the word of God teaches, and I know the best work we can, are filthy rags before God.
But when we believe in Christ by baptism, we are saved by God's grace through our faith (Ep 2:8-9) and sins are forgiven and received the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38) And when God's Spirit is within us and will cause us to walk in God's statutes, and we will be careful to observe God's ordinances.(Ezek 36:27). When we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the Law.(Gal 5:18) We will be called the sons of God. (Rom 8:14) And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.(2 Cor 3:18)
All I posted above this are from the words of God, where as Paul taught;
15 And that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim 3:15-16)
Last edited:
Kevin
New member
Jesus is God incarnate. That statement is the foundation of the Christian faith.
I have always liked this short story.
From the very beginning of the church, Christians proclaimed that Jesus was God “with skin on.” To look at the face of Jesus is to look at the face of God, and in Jesus we can experience the fullness of the divine self.
So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. 2 Corinthians 3:18
I have always liked this short story.
From the very beginning of the church, Christians proclaimed that Jesus was God “with skin on.” To look at the face of Jesus is to look at the face of God, and in Jesus we can experience the fullness of the divine self.
So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. 2 Corinthians 3:18
First off, I want to thank you so much for engaging in a discussion about this word "Judaism" to understand how it is commonly used by this world's religious system, compared according to Scriptures. Since you have been taught, and really believe and are promoting to others, that Judaism is a "Faith", adopted by Abraham, I want to make sure this teaching is aligned with the Christ of the Bible.
FYI, of all the preachers I have spoken with, of all the promoters of the various religious sects or philosophies that I have encountered, you are the very first one to actually begin to engage. And I have been trying to have this conversation for 30 years. Thank you again, for engaging with me on this topic and sharing with me your understanding.
Consider what Paul is saying here in the Scriptures you referenced.
Gal. 1: 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the "Jews' religion", how that beyond measure "I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it": 14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
You are saying that this is "Judaism" and that Saul had adopted the same "Faith" as a Pharisee, that Abraham adopted. But according to Paul, when he was a Pharisee, he walked in a religion whose tradition was to "persecute the church of God, and waste it".
Stephen spoke of this very same religious tradition, concerning the "Traditions of Paul's Fathers", when he rebuked Paul and the promoters of the "Jews Religion" that Paul spoke to in Gal. 1.
Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: "as your fathers did", so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets "have not your fathers persecuted"? and they have slain (Murdered) them which shewed before of "the coming of the Just One"; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 "Who have received the law" (Oracles of God, Yes?) by the disposition of angels, and "have not kept it".
And what happened to Stephen for sharing this undeniable truth?
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Didn't Jesus also speak of the same "Jews religion" that Saul was Zealous for before his conversion, "Wherein in time past he walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience"?
Let's hear what Jesus actually said!
Luke 11: 47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and "your fathers killed them". 48 Truly ye bear witness "that ye allow the deeds of your fathers": for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. 49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, "thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee", how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
So Capbook, I mean no insult, no disrespect, no malice in the very least. I only advocate that we believe what is actually written in the Holy Scriptures about these things. We have been taught, not by the Holy Scriptures, but by "other voices" in this world God placed us in, that "Judaism" is a religion founded by God. You actually have been convinced, not by the Holy Scriptures, but by religions of this world that "come in Christ's Name", that Abraham adopted "Judaism", that Moses taught "Judaism".
In Jesus' Time, Saul, and most all of Jerusalem and the promoters of the "Jews religion" (Except Zacharias, Simeon, others I'm sure) claimed to be "Abraham's Children", adopting and following what you have been taught and are now promoting to others, is "Judaism" which you are promoting is an "Abrahamic Faith".
But when I read for myself, and hearken to what Jesus actually says, I find a completely different Gospel.
John 8: 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. "Jesus saith" unto them, "If" ye were Abraham's children, ye would do "the works of Abraham". 40 But now ye seek to kill me, "a man" that hath told you the truth, which "I have heard of God": "this did not Abraham". 41 Ye do the deeds "of your father". Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came "from God"; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
And anyone can go back in the God inspired Holy Scriptures to find out what the "works of Abraham" were if they are interested in Seeking God's Truth. And if a person were to do this, they would find that Abraham didn't adopt any religious sect of this world. Not the "Jewish religion". Not "Islam", and not what is become "Christianity".
Abraham believed God, and showed His belief by "Living by" Every Word that proceeded out of the mouth of God. This is the same FAITH that the man Jesus exhibited towards HIS God who sent Him.
Abraham wasn't perfect, but HE was faithful to God. He didn't always understand God, but he trusted God's Commandments and obeyed them anyway. The God inspired Holy Scriptures tells me that it was "Because" of this obedience that God Blessed Abraham. And it was accounted to him as "Faith". Wasn't that Abraham's "Faith"? Who convinced you that the "Jews religion" Saul zealously promoted, that transgressed God's commandments by their own traditions, was Abraham's Faith? You should leave any religious sect that would promote such a deception.
Abraham, like everyone of us, was called to leave the religion of his fathers, and follow God on a journey "unto a land that I will shew thee".
Noah, Moses, Caleb, David, Daniel, Shadrack, Rehab, Zacharias, Peter, James, Cornelius etc., and every example of Faithful man recorded for our admonition in the Holy Scriptures, adopted and strived for this Narrow Path that Jesus Promoted.
This is the "Church of God" that existed before Abraham that I am striving for. Not this world's religious system made up of thousands of different religious sects and branches of the 3 main religions you correctly identified as "Judaism", "Christianity" or "Islam".
This is why it is so important to understand what context you used in the word "Judaism" as a Label to define my Faith. Since "Judaism" is defined by you, is the "Jews Religion" that Paul promoted before his conversion, then I can say without hesitation, that I do not adopt the doctrines and traditions of the Jews, who Jesus told me, "Full well rejected the commandment of God, that they may keep their own tradition".
The members of God's Church, which existed before Abraham, have not and do not engage in such behavior. At least according to the Holy Scriptures.
Of course I do. The Hebrews author was simply quoting the God inspired Word's of David, which I posted for your consideration but you completely ignored these Words I posted when David spoke them. Why would you ignore them when David spoke them, and not even consider them worthy of discussion, and then post them, implying that I don't believe them? Perhaps your intent in not nefarious, but you simply missed or didn't read my replies. Many on this forum can only see what they write, not really interested in a true fellowship or discussion. All they do on this forum is justify their own words, and are not interested in seeking the truth in their beliefs. I think this is ungodly fruit, and disrespectful to others who reply to my posts. It seems that a person should at least read and consider what someone else writes, and then seek the Scriptures to resolve a disagreement.
In this way men can grow in the knowledge, not only of the God's truth, but of the intents of our own hearts. Here, let's consider Hebrews 1.
Heb. 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
I love the Holy Scriptures because they are part of God's armor. God's Words came from the mouth of David in times Past, but in the latter days, God's Word came from Jesus, "Whom HE has appointed heir of all things". David and the Author of Hebrews tells us why.
Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "the sceptre" of thy kingdom (Jesus) is a right sceptre.
Jesus is the Sceptre of God's Kingdom, Yes? God's Appointed heir of all things? God's Staff? Do yourself a favor and do a Word study of "Staff", in your closet, in sincere seeking of God's Truth, and for goodness sakes, stop adopting the philosophies of the "other voice" in the garden God placed you in, who come in Christ's Name. Put Jesus' name in most of the time the Word staff is used in the Law and Prophets, and then perhaps you will start to learn the truth about Jesus and His Relationship to His Father.
7 Thou (The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy" ((The Scepter of God's Kingdom, Jesus') God, hath anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (All other men born of a woman)
According to what you are posting, it is you who doesn't believe David or Hebrews. God's Throne is for ever and ever, Jesus is the Sceptre of God's Kingdom. God appointed Him to this Service "BECAUSE" of what Jesus did. At least this is what David and the Hebrew Author and Paul Teaches.
Ph. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Similar threads
