Worshipping The Son

[Matthias]

I would like to explore this further, this Greek vs Jewish impression you have. Are you talking about Philo who Christianity did not accept?

I’m talking about the early church fathers.

The RCC did not exist during the first millennium of Christianity.

Neither I nor Catholics would agree with that.

You are appealing to then non-existent witnesses.

See above.

 

[Matthias]

So there are none ranked above Jesus but Jesus is ranked less than the Father?

Yes. God is the head of Messiah.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Bible persuades me that the one God is none other than the God and Father of our lord Jesus Messiah.


Studying with trinitarian scholars.

Have you ever studied water?

Water can vary and have different characteristics but it is still H2O.

 

[Matthias]

They did.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This is an interpretation of scripture, not what is actually written in scripture.

Godman -> Theanthropos is what I’m looking for. Do you know who first referred to Jesus as Theanthropos? Do you know which century it occurred in?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes. God is the head of Messiah.

How tenable do you see this construct? You have a single "outlier" wherein God isn't Messiah and Messiah isn't God.

Do you see all others significantly diminished in rank?

 

[Matthias]

You simply fabricated a solution to a problem you had. Being falsely fabricated, it does not stand up to scrutiny.

It’s neither fabricated nor falsely fabricated. It’s Jewish monotheism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

This is an interpretation of scripture, not what is actually written in scripture.

Godman -> Theanthropos is what I’m looking for. Do you know who first referred to Jesus as Theanthropos? Do you know which century it occurred in?

First, you need to establish why I must meet your "Theanthropos" requirement....I feel zero obligation to require "Theanthropos". You really don't know who the first person was to use the word. No one does. Such arguments are rudimentary nonsense.

 

[Matthias]

My God is the same as adams

Adam the trinitarian?

.ll all the prophets, psalmist, Jesus, the Apostles- The Plural God they all attest to in Scripture.

I related a story on the forum recently about “Isaiah the trinitarian.” Your comment reminds me of it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It’s neither fabricated nor falsely fabricated. It’s Jewish monotheism.

No it is not. It is somewhat of a construct from Messianic Judaism. Who knows where it originally started. Human beings love to false claim they know such things. It really is sad.

 

[synergy]

No he didn’t. As Robert Young (author of Young’s Concordance) points out, all of the “I am” statements are connected with his claim to be the Messiah, not the God of the OT.

"I Am" is the name that God gave to Moses when Moses asked for God's name. Is Robert Young claiming that God is claiming to be the Messiah? This is where critical thinking, that you're high on, guides you to the truth.

A unitarian did think and do that. Who did Thomas see when he saw Jesus? He saw what everyone should see, the Father in Jesus.

Please forward Bible verse that says that. I will be a doubting Thomas of unitarianism until I see it in the Bible.

Thomas’ God and Jesus’ God is the same God - the Father.

That's modalism.

 

[Matthias]

Have you ever studied water?

Yes. I have a degree in civil engineering.

Water can vary and have different characteristics but it is still H2O.

You do realize that this is a famous analogy which actually teaches Modalism, don’t you?

One of the things which my trinitarian professors impressed upon me in college that I’ve never forgotten: Don’t use analogies to describe God. Ever.

 

[Matthias]

How tenable do you see this construct?

Highly.

You have a single "outlier" wherein God isn't Messiah and Messiah isn't God.

This isn’t an outlier at all. The one God is the Messiah’s God throughout scripture.

Do you see all others significantly diminished in rank?

Who are you referring to?

 

[Matthias]

First, you need to establish why I must meet your "Theanthropos" requirement....I feel zero obligation to require "Theanthropos".

You don’t have to do anything. You said that Jesus is called “Godman” in scripture. That’s obviously not true.

You really don't know who the first person was to use the word. No one does. Such arguments are rudimentary nonsense.

Origen is the person who first used the word.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Highly.




This isn’t an outlier at all. The one God is the Messiah’s God throughout scripture.



Who are you referring to?

The context of my comments... Your "outlier".... Why ask "who"?

Do you see all other significantly diminished from Christ?

 

[Matthias]

No it is not. It is somewhat of a construct from Messianic Judaism. Who knows where it originally started. Human beings love to false claim they know such things. It really is sad.

There are many resources available on Jewish monotheism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You don’t have to do anything. You said that Jesus is called “Godman” in scripture. That’s obviously not true.

You need to study etymology. Theanthropos is a late Greek compound word not known to the author's of the Scripture. Your requirement is nonsense.

Origen is the person who first used the word.

Rubbish. You can't possibly know this. It is impossible to know. Now Tyndale did "coin" (the word you're looking for) Godhead. However, we have much more confidence in later narrative than we do have for the unknowns in the time of Origen.

Don't fall into such "traps" these theologians have put in your mind. They don't know such things. This nothing more than a silly argument meant to distract.

 

[praise_yeshua]

There are many resources available on Jewish monotheism.

They are? From what time period? Do tell me what I already know. Jewish thought was destroyed after Messiah ascended and left Israel to themselves. That thought only carried on in Christianity.

 

[synergy]

I’m talking about the early church fathers.

That's way too broad for us to discuss any Jewish Greek clash. Sorry.

Neither I nor Catholics would agree with that.

So why aren't you Catholic if you implicitly believe whatever they say? Critical thinking....

 

[Matthias]

"I Am" is the name that God gave to Moses when Moses asked for God's name. Is Robert Young claiming that God is claiming to be the Messiah?

No. He is pointing out that Jesus is claiming to be the Messiah.

This is where critical thinking, that you're high on, guides you to the truth.

Agreed.

Please forward Bible verse that says that. I will be a doubting Thomas of unitarianism until I see it in the Bible.

When you see and hear Messiah, do you not see and hear his Father in him?

That's modalism.

No. It’s Jewish monotheism. Modalism requires that one person actually be three persons. I’m not a modalist.

What you should have reacted to was the H2O anaology that I was presented with. That is a well-known analogy which teaches Modalism.

 

[Matthias]

The context of my comments... Your "outlier".... Why ask "who"?

Do you see all other significantly diminished from Christ?

You lost me. You made a comment that I didn’t understand and I asked you for clarification. I still don’t know what your comment was about.