"Works Salvation"

[brightfame52]

The Bible does not teach such a an idea. Gen 4:7 Cain had the ability to well, God even told him to rule over sin and such would not be the case if man is innately born totally depraved, total inability. Again, total inability makes God looks senseless and sadistic by giving men commands to obey already know it would be impossible for men to obey having been born totally depraved then punishing man for not doing the impossible.

Those in Acts 2 were lost unless/until they had first repented and baptized for remission of sins. If you think they were saved before they obeyed God's command by repenting and being baptized per v38, then pin point the verse prior to v38 where they became saved and how and why were they saved in that verse. How are men saved BEFORE they obey God? Does God save unconditionally disobedient men? No!

Man by nature is a child of disobedience sir Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Man cannot change his nature to be obedient.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Man cannot change his nature to be obedient.

Is it the nature of a leave to be green?
If it was the nature of the leave to be green, why in darkness we see it black?

There is nothing in the leave to emit green light.
But it is in its nature to reflect green light (light in the spectrum of green) when touched by the light.

Touched by the light of God, man can reflect his attributes.

 

[atpollard]

Nothing in Jn 3 says man is innately born unable to do well.

Perhaps, but there are verses that explicitly state that 100% go on to choose to do evil. Quite a track record, isn't it?
[Certainly not a Libertarian Free Will 50/50 chance.]

 

[praise_yeshua]

Perhaps, but there are verses that explicitly state that 100% go on to choose to do evil. Quite a track record, isn't it?
[Certainly not a Libertarian Free Will 50/50 chance.]

I've never believed in a "50/50" probability. Faith is generational. So is unbelief.

Do you care to deal with your impact on this "equation"? I'm rather confident that you don't believe that you can actually be "at fault/why" someone has is damned or redeemed?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Perhaps, but there are verses that explicitly state that 100% go on to choose to do evil. Quite a track record, isn't it?
[Certainly not a Libertarian Free Will 50/50 chance.]

Sure, but people also show the attributes of God in several aspects of their lives, which let us know that God works in everyone.
Calvin called this "common grace". A grace that is not salvific but allows people not to be "as bad as they could be".
Common grace is a result of God's love. It is also a gift and, in contrast with what Calvin believed, it is salvific, as it creates the basis for regeneration. In fact, for many people regeneration cannot be tracked to a specific date or moment in their lives, but it has been a continuous process of God's grace.

 

[Doug Brents]

So, one question that can help us to understand this is the following:

Does God expect you to love the Sikhs, Jews and Muslims?
If He does, then we know that God also loves them, because Jesus establishes the parallel a your love to "enemies" (let alone Sikhs friends or Muslim friends) to the love of God for them.

I have an answer to you for this: Yes, God loves them, and He calls us to love them as well. But what does that have to do with anything? God loved us while we were sinners (He loves all sinners)(Rom 5:8-9). But His love for us while we are sinners does not indicate that we (or the sikhs, Jews or muslims) are saved. His love for us while we were sinners prompted Him to give His Son so that we COULD be saved, not that it automatically made us saved.

So yes, He loves those who do not believe in Him, and He will love them all the way to Hell if they do not love Him back. And we are called to love them, and do good to/for them, because in loving them as He loves them we may soften their hearts and bring them to love Him also. But if they don't, then they will spend eternity in Hell away from Him even while He still loves them.