Why there can be no gap between the 69th and 70th week

[SteveB]

Then you must have a pretty low view of scripture seeing as what I posted was scripture and all you kept yammering about was the calculations of man.

No. I actually have a very high view of scripture. It's why I have repeatedly asked for corroborating material.
Had you said up front about Henry, Calvin, and Newton, instead of hiding behind Mauro and Anstey, we could have had a different discussion.

As you demonstrated on your other op, you present the views of 400 to 500 year old scholars as your own, and then claim your views are biblical.
That's a bad idea.

So... no Tom, YHVH said


Psa 138:2 BBE I will give worship before your holy Temple, praising your name for your mercy and for your unchanging faith: for you have made your word greater than all your name.


God exalts His Word ABOVE His name.

So, why would I treat it any less important?

 

[TomL]

No. I actually have a very high view of scripture. It's why I have repeatedly asked for corroborating material.
Had you said up front about Henry, Calvin, and Newton, instead of hiding behind Mauro and Anstey, we could have had a different discussion.

As you demonstrated on your other op, you present the views of 400 to 500 year old scholars as your own, and then claim your views are biblical.
That's a bad idea.

So... no Tom, YHVH said


Psa 138:2 BBE I will give worship before your holy Temple, praising your name for your mercy and for your unchanging faith: for you have made your word greater than all your name.


God exalts His Word ABOVE His name.

So, why would I treat it any less important?

you looked for Corroboration from the calculations of man rather than the word of God

You cannot consistently demonstrate the fulfillment of the prophesy

Daniel 9:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

the atonement happens in the 70 weeks

you cannot demonstrate it in your view

so you should know it is false

 

[SteveB]

you looked for Corroboration from the calculations of man rather than the word of God

Like you didn't!
You're continuing to dig an extremely deep hole here Tom.
I already had the biblical confirmation I needed before I showed up here, and presented it as such.
That wasn't good enough for you. You kept demanding, so i went outside and provided more. You continued demanding.

You cannot consistently demonstrate the fulfillment of the prophesy

Daniel 9:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

the atonement happens in the 70 weeks

you cannot demonstrate it in your view

so you should know it is false

I know your ideas are false.
Especially now I see your hypocrisy.

 

[TomL]

Like you didn't!
You're continuing to dig an extremely deep hole here Tom.
I already had the biblical confirmation I needed before I showed up here, and presented it as such.
That wasn't good enough for you. You kept demanding, so i went outside and provided more. You continued demanding.



I know your ideas are false.
Especially now I see your hypocrisy.

You still cannot deal with the issue

You cannot consistently demonstrate the fulfillment of the prophesy

Daniel 9:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

the atonement happens in the 70 weeks

you cannot demonstrate it in your view

so you should know it is false

 

[SteveB]

You still cannot deal with the issue

You cannot consistently demonstrate the fulfillment of the prophesy

Daniel 9:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

the atonement happens in the 70 weeks

you cannot demonstrate it in your view

so you should know it is false

How many times would you like me to post the same thing before you understand Tom?
50, 100, 1000, 10000000000000000000000?

You've previously decided that it could be

100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

And you'd still reject it. You don't actually care about anything except winning.

It's why talking to you is a waste of time.

 

[TomL]

How many times would you like me to post the same thing before you understand Tom?
50, 100, 1000, 10000000000000000000000?

You've previously decided that it could be

100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

And you'd still reject it. You don't actually care about anything except winning.

It's why talking to you is a waste of time.

LOL

Number one to 70

which week was atonement made in

Daniel 9:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

 

[SteveB]

LOL

Number one to 70

which week was atonement made in

Daniel 9:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

How many times do you want me to state what I've already stated?

You clearly lack the comprehension of so simple a question.

Why is that?

 

[TomL]

How many times do you want me to state what I've already stated?

You clearly lack the comprehension of so simple a question.

Why is that?

You do not have a whole number 1-70 where atonement is effected

You place atonement outside of any one whole number

It is not in any of the 69 weeks

and the 70 week is still future for you

 

[TomL]

Are you still gonna play king of the sandbox, or are you going to play nice?
According to Daniel 9:26, he's cut off after the 69th seven.


C. The prophecy of the Seventy Weeks.
1. (24a) Seventy weeks are determined for the Jews and Jerusalem.
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,

a. Seventy weeks are determined: There is almost universal agreement among Bible scholars and commentators that this refers to seventy sets of seven years, or weeks of years.

i. In ancient Hebrew, weeks simply refers to a unit of seven. The Hebrew word here is often used to mean a unit of seven days, but it may also be used for a unit of seven years.

ii. “The Jews had Sabbatic years, by which their years were divided into weeks of years, as in this important prophecy, each week containing seven years.” (Clarke)

iii. Genesis 29:15-28 is an example of using this ancient Hebrew word (shabuwa) for both seven days and seven years in the same context.

b. For your people and for your holy city: The seventy weeks were focused upon Daniel’s people (the Jews) and his holy city (Jerusalem).

i. Unless the church has become Israel, it is not in view here. Talbot calls the seventy weeks “God’s calendar for Israel” in the sense that it does not focus on the Gentiles or the church.

2. (24b) What will be accomplished in the seventy weeks.
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

a. To finish the transgression: This says that transgression itself will be finished. Taken literally, this means establishing an entirely new order on earth, with an end to man’s rebellion against God.

i. “The culmination of appointed years will witness the conclusion of man’s ‘transgression’ or ‘rebellion’ against God - a development most naturally entered into with the establishment of an entirely new order on earth. This seems to require nothing less than the inauguration of the kingdom of God on earth.” (Archer)

b. To make an end of sins: Taking these words at face value, this means not only the end of the guilt of sin, but an end of sin itself. It means to “seal up” or to “restrain” sins. This looks to a new, redeemed world.

c. To make reconciliation for iniquity: Man’s iniquity must be reconciled to God’s justice and holiness. This work was clearly accomplished at the cross.

d. To bring in everlasting righteousness: One might take this in an individual sense, but there have always been righteous individuals. Taking the statement at face value, this means a new order of society brought in by the Messiah.

e. To seal up vision and prophecy: This speaks of both the ending and fulfillment of prophecy, concluding the final stage of human history and culminating with the reign of the Son of God.

i. “It must include his enthronement.” (Archer)

f. To anoint the most holy: Taken at its simple, literal meaning, this refers to a place, not a person. There is a most holy place - the most holy place of the temple - that will be anointed and blessed.

i. Taken as a whole, Gabriel made a remarkable announcement to Daniel. He told him that each of these amazing things would happen within the period of seventy weeks.

ii. Looking back in history, we can only say these things are already fulfilled if we ignore their plain, literal meaning and give them a spiritualized meaning that replaces their plain meaning. Some believe that these promises were fulfilled generally in the spread of the Gospel over the centuries, but this belief neglects the plain and simple meaning of these words.

3. (25) The course and dividing of the seventy weeks.
“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

a. From the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem: Here Gabriel revealed to Daniel the starting point for the seventy-weeks prophecy. There was a command to restore and build Jerusalem in history that started this specific period of time.

i. The Bible presents four possible decrees that might fulfill this description:

· Cyrus made a decree giving Ezra and the Babylonian captives the right to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple in 538 B.C. (Ezra 1:1-4 and 5:13-17).

· Darius made a decree giving Ezra the right to rebuild the temple in 517 B.C. (Ezra 6:6-12).

· Artaxerxes made a decree giving Ezra permission, safe passage, and supplies to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple in 458 B.C. (Ezra 7:11-26).

· Artaxerxes made a decree giving Nehemiah permission, safe passage and supplies to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the city and the walls in 445 B.C. (Nehemiah 2:1-8).

ii. Only the last of these four decrees was a command to restore and build Jerusalem. The first three each focused on the temple, not on the street or on the wall.

b. Until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks: Gabriel’s message to Daniel was simple and striking. 483 years - that is, 69 units of seven years - would pass from the time of the command recorded in Nehemiah 2:1-8 until the appearance of Messiah the Prince.

i. Some say the 483 years were completed at the time of Jesus’ birth (5 or 4 B.C.). There is little chronological support for this date.

ii. Some say the 483 years were completed at His baptism, at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry (if dated at A.D. 26). This is possible if one begins with the earlier decree of Artaxerxes, and figures with our present measurement for years (365.25 days to a year) instead of the ancient measurement of years (360 days to a year).

iii. Some say the 483 years were completed at the triumphal entry of Jesus (if dated at A.D. 32). Sir Robert Anderson’s significant work The Coming Prince followed this argument in great detail.

· Anderson, using a 360-day year (which Israel used in Daniel’s day), calculated 173,880 days from the decree to the triumphal entry, fulfilling the prophecy to the day. “It is customary for the Jews to have twelve months of 360 days each and then to insert a thirteenth month occasionally when necessary to correct the calendar.” (Walvoord)

· The year A.D. 32 (based on Luke 3:1) for Jesus’ death is controversial (most chronologists favor A.D. 30 or 33). But recent attempts have made some case for the date: “A recent article attempts to give credence to the date of A.D. 32; cf. R.E. Showers, Grace Journal, XI (Winter, 1970), pp. 30ff. The evidence presented is worthy of notice.” (Wood)

· “No one today is able dogmatically to declare that Sir Robert Anderson’s computations are impossible.” (Walvoord)

iv. Some say the 483 years were completed at the exact time of the crucifixion. This is a minority opinion. Most who find the date near this time also see it belonging to the Triumphal Entry, which happened seven days before the crucifixion.

c. Until Messiah the Prince: Taking Anderson’s calculations as reliable, we see a remarkable fulfillment of prophecy. A Gentile king made a decree and 483 years later to the day, Jesus presented Himself as Messiah the Prince to Israel.

i. In our mind a Prince is a good step lower than a king. In the Hebrew vocabulary, “Prince” has more the idea of “strong, mighty ruler” than “son of a king and heir to the throne.”

ii. “There was only one occasion in our Lord’s earthly ministry on which He is depicted as presenting Himself openly as Zion’s King, the so-called ‘Triumphal Entry,’ recorded in each one of the Gospels and fulfilling Zechariah 9:9 and Psalm 118:26.” (Newell)

· On that day, Jesus deliberately arranged the event to present Himself as Messiah (Mark 11:1-10).

· On that day, Jesus welcomed praise (Luke 19:38-40) instead of quieting it (Luke 5:14 and 8:56).

· On that day, Jesus made special reference to the importance of that day (Luke 19:41-42).

iii. This prophecy is so specifically fulfilled that it has been a significant testimony to many. “Others of the Jewish [scholars], by the evidence of these words, have been compelled to confess that Messiah is already come, and that he was that Jesus whom their forefathers crucified.” (Trapp)

d. The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times: This indicates that the rebuilding of the streets and wall of Jerusalem would happen in the first seven weeks mentioned. Then would follow another 62 weeks of years until the coming of Messiah the Prince.

i. The seventy weeks are divided into three parts:

· Seven weeks - 49 years, until the city and its walls are rebuilt.

· 69 weeks (7 plus 62), 483 years from the decree, until Messiah the Prince appears.

· A final 70th week to complete the prophecy.

4. (26) What happens after the first sixty-nine weeks.
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

a. After the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off: The Biblical term cut off is sometimes used to describe execution (see Genesis 9:11 and Exodus 31:14). Gabriel told Daniel that the Messiah will be cut off for the sake of others, not for Himself.

i. “Able chronologists have shown that the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ occurred immediately after the expiration of 483 prophetic years, of 360 days each, from the time of Artaxerxes’ order.” (Ironside)

ii. Strangely, many able commentators simply ignore these numbers. “The numbers are symbolic and not arithmetical.” (Baldwin)

iii. Cut off is a poignant description of Jesus’ earthly life up to and including the cross. “Born in another man’s stable, cradled in another man’s manger with nowhere to lay his head during his life on earth, and buried in another man’s tomb after dying on a cursed cross, the Christ of God and the Friend of the friendless was indeed cut off and had nothing.” (Heslop)

b. Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary: After the Messiah was cut off, Jerusalem and her temple would be destroyed again by an overwhelming army (with a flood). Most all Bible scholars and commentators agree that this was fulfilled in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

c. The people of the prince who is to come shall destroy: The destroying army is made up of the people of the prince who is to come. This coming prince is described more in Daniel 9:27.

5. (27) The events of the seventieth week.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

a. He shall confirm a covenant: The “he” Gabriel described is the prince who is to come mentioned in the previous verse. If we know that the prince’s people destroyed Jerusalem in A.D. 70, then we know this coming prince has his ancestral roots in the soil of the ancient Roman Empire.

i. Therefore, the prince who is to come will in some way be an heir to the Romans, even as the final world government is an heir to the Roman Empire (Daniel 7).

b. He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week: The coming prince will make a covenant with Israel for the final unit of seven years, completing the seventy weeks prophesied for the Jewish people and Jerusalem.

i. Covenant with many: The word many here is a specific reference to Israel, not a general reference to a group. The ancient Hebrew says, “covenant with the many.”

ii. With this covenant Israel will embrace the Antichrist as a political messiah, if not the literal Messiah. Jesus predicted this in John 5:43: I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

iii. Taking the description of what would be accomplished in the 70 Weeks from Daniel 9:24, we know that the 70 Weeks are not yet complete. Yet the events promised in the first 69 weeks are fulfilled, indicated that there is a lengthy “pause” in the 70 Weeks, between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week will begin when the coming prince shall confirm a covenant with the Jewish people. These gaps or pauses in prophecy may seem strange to us, but they are common. Comparing Isaiah 9:6 and Luke 1:31-33 shows another significant pause or gap in prophecy regarding the coming of the Messiah.

iv. We can think of it in this way: God appointed 490 years of special focus on Israel in His redemptive plan. The years were paused by Israel’s rejection of Jesus. Now there is no special focus on Israel in God’s redemptive plan because this is the time of the church. God’s focus will return to Israel when the church is taken away (at the rapture) and the last seven years of man’s rule on this earth begin.

v. “The 70th week will begin when the Jewish people are restored in unbelief to their land and city; and among them will be found a faithful remnant, owning their sin, and seeking Jehovah’s face.” (Henry Ironside writing in 1911)

c. In the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering: The coming prince will break the covenant with Israel in the middle of the seven years, the final week (period of seven years).

i. The Book of Revelation sees this seven year period with both its halves as yet future (Revelation 12:6, 13-14; 13:5-9, 14-15). The middle of the week and the end of sacrifice had not yet happened in 90 A.D.

d. On the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate: The ending of sacrifice will come with abominations, followed by tremendous desolation.

i. Abominations translates an ancient Hebrew word (shiqquwts) that is connected to horrific idolatry (Deuteronomy 29:17, 1 Kings 11:5-7, 2 Kings 23:13). The idea is that the coming prince breaks the covenant and brings an end to sacrifice and offering by desecrating the holy place of the temple with a horrific idolatry.

ii. Jesus called this the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15) and indicated that it would be a pivotal sign in the Great Tribulation. Paul referred to the idolatry of the coming prince in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

e. Until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate: This breaking of the covenant and abomination of desolation has a promised consummation. Before the 70th week is completed, each of the things described in Daniel 9:24 will be accomplished and everlasting righteousness will reign.

The Seventy Weeks of Daniel
as Understood by Sir Robert Anderson in “The Coming Prince”
Daniel 9:24-25 says that from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of the Messiah there will be 483 years.

7 + 62 “weeks” = 69 groups of seven years. 7 x 69 = 483 years

Anderson understood a prophetic year as 360 days. This is based both on ancient history and on Revelation 11:2, 13:5, 11:3, and 12:6 which indicate that 42 months - 3 ½ years - are equal to 1,260 days.

Therefore, 483 years x 360 days = 173,880 days

Artaxerxes started his reign in 465 B.C. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem was given on the first day of Nisan, in the 20th year of Artaxerxes. In our calendar system (the Julian calendar) that date is March 14, 445 B.C. (Nehemiah 2:1)

Jesus started His ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius (see Luke 3:1). Tiberius started his reign in A.D. 14, so Jesus’ ministry started in A.D. 29. Anderson believed that Jesus celebrated four Passovers during His ministry, one each in A.D. 29, 30, 31. and His final Passover in A.D. 32. With the help of lunar charts, we can calculate the exact date of ancient Passovers, so it is possible to calculate the exact day of Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem as April 6, A.D. 32.

From 445 B.C. to A.D. 32. there are 476 years on the Julian calendar
(not 477 years, because there is no year zero).

476 years x 365 days = 173,740 days.

Adjusting for the difference between March 14 and April 6 adds 24 days.

Adjusting for leap years over a period of 476 years adds 116 days.

The total number of days from March 14, 445 B.C. to April 6, A.D. 32.
173,740 + 24 + 116 = 173,880 days.

According to his calendar, Daniel told us there would be 173,880 days between the decree and the arrival of Messiah the Prince.

Jesus said to the Jews of this day: If you had known, even you, especially IN THIS YOUR DAY, the things that make for your peace! (Luke 19:42). David said of this day in Psalm 118:24: THIS IS THE DAY which the LORD has made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

©2018 David Guzik – No distribution beyond personal use without permission

A lot of verbiage

But there was no atonement in the 69 weeks

and the 70 th is still future in your view


The prophecy however called for atonement within the 70 weeks

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Not outside of it

Your interpretation is therefore not consistent with the text

 

[SteveB]

You do not have a whole number 1-70 where atonement is effected

And?

You place atonement outside of any one whole number

And you use the opinions of Matthew Henry, John Calvin, and Isaac Newton to formulate your opinions.
I have found several whose opinions make far more sense in light of historical facts.

It is not in any of the 69 weeks

Nope. It plainly states,
Dan 9:26 ISV Then after the 62 weeks, the anointed one will be cut down (but not for himself). Then the people of the Coming Commander will destroy both the city and the Sanctuary. Its ending will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war, with desolations having been decreed.

Hebrew Calendar

and the 70 week is still future for you

Why yes! Yes it is!
That's when the antichrist will come.

 

[SteveB]

A lot of verbiage

Another way of saying that you lack the courage to read, the will to understand, and the motivation to learn.

But there was no atonement in the 69 weeks

Nope.
Atonement took place 4 days after the end of the 69th seven.

and the 70 th is still future in your view

Yep. Not a problem for me, and those who taught me.

The prophecy however called for atonement within the 70 weeks

Yep.

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Not outside of it

Correct.

Your interpretation is therefore not consistent with the text

Actually, it's far more consistent than yours.

 

[TomL]

Another way of saying that you lack the courage to read, the will to understand, and the motivation to learn.

Nope.
Atonement took place 4 days after the end of the 69th seven.

So you say

But scripture points to Christ's anointing at his baptism before the start of his public ministry

and the 70th week is still future in your view

Yep. Not a problem for me, and those who taught me.

The prophecy however called for atonement within the 70 weeks

Yep.

Correct.


Actually, it's far more consistent than yours.

Hardly

You have no atonement in the seventy weeks given

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

thus you falsify Dan 9:24

 

[TomL]

And?

And you use the opinions of Matthew Henry, John Calvin, and Isaac Newton to formulate your opinions.
I have found several whose opinions make far more sense in light of historical facts.

Nope I quoted those after the fact to show that the idea of a gap was unknown for 1800 years and then only by one who was propagating a new eschatology which was previously unknown

i

Nope. It plainly states,
Dan 9:26 ISV Then after the 62 weeks, the anointed one will be cut down (but not for himself). Then the people of the Coming Commander will destroy both the city and the Sanctuary. Its ending will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war, with desolations having been decreed.

After the 7 and 62 weeks i.e. the 69 week the anointed one is cut off

there are but 70 weeks given so that must be in the 70th if atonement is to be made in the 70 weeks

Hebrew Calendar

I do not care about man's calendar. There are multiple ones out there and they are not a standard to judge the truth of God's word

The historic non dispensational premillenialist J. Barton Payne in his encyclopedia of bible prophesy shows that Daniel's prophecy does not require a "gap" to force it to fit with biblical history.

Quoted by Gary DeMar. Last Days Madness (Kindle Locations 7841-7842). American Vision. Kindle Edition.

Why yes! Yes it is!
That's when the antichrist will come.

And so Christs atonement is skipped over in the 70 weeks

1 John 2:18 (ESV) — 18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

 

[SteveB]

Nope I quoted those after the fact to show that the idea of a gap was unknown for 1800 years and then only by one who was propagating a new eschatology which was previously unknown

i





After the 7 and 62 weeks i.e. the 69 week the anointed one is cut off

there are but 70 weeks given so that must be in the 70th if atonement is to be made in the 70 weeks

I do not care about man's calendar. There are multiple ones out there and they are not a standard to judge the truth of God's word

The historic non dispensational premillenialist J. Barton Payne in his encyclopedia of bible prophesy shows that Daniel's prophecy does not require a "gap" to force it to fit with biblical history.

Quoted by Gary DeMar. Last Days Madness (Kindle Locations 7841-7842). American Vision. Kindle Edition.




And so Christs atonement is skipped over in the 70 weeks

Only in your opinion.
In the biblical narrative, since the 70th seven hasn't happened yet, it's all contained within the descriptions given from Genesis to Revelation.

1 John 2:18 (ESV) — 18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

Then why would you act like one?

 

[SteveB]

So you say

But scripture points to Christ's anointing at his baptism before the start of his public ministry

And?
You have never actually demonstrated that his anointing is the end of the 69th.
Especially when it's stated,
After the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off but not for Himself...

Hardly

You have no atonement in the seventy weeks given

Actually, I do have the atonement within the boundaries of the 70 sevens.
As the 70th seven hasn't taken place yet, and the atonement took place 4 days after the end of the 69th seven, the atonement is achieved within the 70 sevens.

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

thus you falsify Dan 9:24

Sounds like you're trying to forcefit something you're not understanding.

 

[TomL]

And?
You have never actually demonstrated that his anointing is the end of the 69th.
Especially when it's stated,

You obviously do not read

Daniel 9:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

as I had quoted

The witness of Jesus after returning from his baptism

Luke 4:16–22 (KJV 1900) — 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph’s son?

The witness of the Father

Luke 9:35 (ESV) — 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him!”

It is a quote from Psalm 2

Psalm 2:1–7 (KJV 1900) — 1 Why do the heathen rage, And the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, And cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: The Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, And vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king Upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: The LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; This day have I begotten thee.

The same psalm calls him his anointed

Then we have the witness of John

John 1:6–8 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

John 1:31–41 (KJV 1900) — 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. 35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou? 39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour. 40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

From his witness two disciples concluded they found the messiah - the anointed one

After the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off but not for Himself...


Actually, I do have the atonement within the boundaries of the 70 sevens.
As the 70th seven hasn't taken place yet, and the atonement took place 4 days after the end of the 69th seven, the atonement is achieved within the 70 sevens..

Sorry that is contradictory

It had not happened in the 69 weeks and it certainly will not happen in the 70th week

so it had not happened in the 70 weeks

Futher seeing as scripture indicates Christ was anointed at his baptism

that is as far as the 69 weeks takes us

Jesus ministry however was for 3 1/2 years when he was cutoff in the middle of the week which can only be the 70 week

 

[SteveB]

You obviously do not read

Oh how convenient that would be for you.
The problem here is that you have nothing that will corroborate your belief, except for your own opinions and ideas.
I've been reading for several decades.
I've been attending Bible studies for decades.
prophecy studies have been among them.

At this point, i find myself wondering if this whole "gap theory" argument of yours is nothing more than you picking a fight because you have waaaay too much time on your hands.

Daniel 9:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Yep. Awesome passage!

as I had quoted

You don't JUST quote the passages.
You also include plenty of opinion.

The witness of Jesus after returning from his baptism

Luke 4:16–22 (KJV 1900) — 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph’s son?

So, in your mind, this passage in Luke 4 is fulfillment of "unto Messiah the Prince"?
Why?

The witness of the Father

Luke 9:35 (ESV) — 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him!”

Pretty awesome!
Why do you think that this gets included in fulfillment of Daniel 9:25?

It is a quote from Psalm 2

Psalm 2:1–7 (KJV 1900) — 1 Why do the heathen rage, And the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, And cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: The Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, And vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king Upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: The LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; This day have I begotten thee.

The same psalm calls him his anointed

yep.
you're not explaining WHY these are saying that "unto messiah the prince" is the beginning of the his Revelation to Israel.

Nor have you ever actually explained why it CANNOT be Nisan 10, on what Christians refer to as Palm Sunday.

Then we have the witness of John

John 1:6–8 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

John 1:31–41 (KJV 1900) — 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. 35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou? 39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour. 40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

From his witness two disciples concluded they found the messiah - the anointed one

Yeah, all great passages.
They do nothing to explain why 9:25 is fulfilled by the start of Jesus’ ministry.

Sorry that is contradictory

But you don't explain why!

It had not happened in the 69 weeks and it certainly will not happen in the 70th week

The Messiah entered the City of Jerusalem riding a donkey, exactly as stated in Zechariah 9.

Zec 9:9 WEB Rejoice greatly, daughter of Zion! Shout, daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King comes to you! He is righteous, and having salvation; lowly, and riding on a donkey, even on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

Looks pretty profound to me.
This looks like a declaration of the coming King of Israel.
Well, when did the King come riding into the City?
He entered the City, riding the donkey, on the 10th of Nisan.
Aka, Palm Sunday.

so it had not happened in the 70 weeks

Actually it did.
The 70th seven hasn't taken place yet.

Futher seeing as scripture indicates Christ was anointed at his baptism

The timing of the decree doesn't work for this date.
Cyrus issues his decree to rebuild the temple.
Ezr 1:2 WEB “Cyrus king of Persia says, ‘Yahweh, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he has commanded me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Daniel 9 says-
Dan 9:25 WEB “Know therefore and discern that from the going out of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem to the Anointed One, the prince, will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be built again, with street and moat, even in troubled times.

So, rebuild the temple isn't a part of the deal.
Who issued the decree to rebuild the city and the streets?
To whom was it given?
What year did the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the streets?

Neh 2:1 WEB In the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king, when wine was before him, I picked up the wine, and gave it to the king. Now I had not been sad before in his presence.

Neh 2:5 WEBI said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you would send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may build it.”
Neh 2:6 WEB The king said to me (the queen was also sitting by him), “How long will your journey be? When will you return?” So it pleased the king to send me, and I set a time for him.

The decree was issued by Artaxerxes.
The decree was issued in the month of Nisan.
The decree was issued to rebuild the city.

that is as far as the 69 weeks takes us

Jesus ministry however was for 3 1/2 years when he was cutoff in the middle of the week which can only be the 70 week

Not seeing it.
Too many questions.
You're not actually explaining it.

 

[TomL]

Oh how convenient that would be for you.
The problem here is that you have nothing that will corroborate your belief, except for your own opinions and ideas.
I've been reading for several decades.
I've been attending Bible studies for decades.
prophecy studies have been among them.

At this point, i find myself wondering if this whole "gap theory" argument of yours is nothing more than you picking a fight because you have waaaay too much time on your hands.



Yep. Awesome passage!

You don't JUST quote the passages.
You also include plenty of opinion.


So, in your mind, this passage in Luke 4 is fulfillment of "unto Messiah the Prince"?
Why?

Yes messiah means the anointed one.


Scriptures given previously


Christ was anointed at his baptism and proclaimed that he was the anointed one

God the father confirmed quoting Psalm 2

The witness of John the baptist convinced two of the disciples Jesus was the anointed one

Jesus told the woman at the well he was the anointed one

John 4:25–26 (ESV) — 25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”

4 witnesses

end pt1

 

[SteveB]

Yes messiah means the anointed one.

Never said otherwise.
Go back and reread what I stated again.

Scriptures given previously


Christ was anointed at his baptism and proclaimed that he was the anointed one

God the father confirmed quoting Psalm 2

The witness of John the baptist convinced two of the disciples Jesus was the anointed one

Jesus told the woman at the well he was the anointed one

John 4:25–26 (ESV) — 25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”

4 witnesses

end pt1

You're not actually answering my questions.

 

[TomL]

end pt1

Scripture testified it was the decree of Cyrus to rebuild Jesusalem

Isaiah 44:24–45:13 (ESV) — 24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, 25 who frustrates the signs of liars and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish, 26 who confirms the word of his servant and fulfills the counsel of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be inhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be built, and I will raise up their ruins’; 27 who says to the deep, ‘Be dry; I will dry up your rivers’; 28 who says of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose’; saying of Jerusalem, ‘She shall be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation shall be laid.’ ” 1 Thus says the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and to loose the belts of kings, to open doors before him that gates may not be closed: 2 “I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron, 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and the hoards in secret places, that you may know that it is I, the LORD, the God of Israel, who call you by your name. 4 For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, 6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things. 8 “Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation and righteousness may bear fruit; let the earth cause them both to sprout; I the LORD have created it. 9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles’? 10 Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’ or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’ ” 11 Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him: “Ask me of things to come; will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands? 12 I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host. 13 I have stirred him up in righteousness, and I will make all his ways level; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward,” says the LORD of hosts.

Now if you believe what God has stated all your calculation and calenders are of no value