Daniel's 70 weeks and the Messiah

[Doug Brents]

In any case it is totally irrelevant to the issue. Are we waiting for a future antiChrist before Christ can return

I do not believe that antichrist is an individual. Almost none of Revelation is what it says it is; it is all figurative. I think the antichrist here is the increased spirit of antichrist that has been in the world since the first century, but it is grown stronger (as in the US today). But since this spirit is in the world already and has been since the first century, we are not awaiting any new sign of some antichrist. The sign has already been fulfilled, and Christ can return at any moment.

 

[DavidTree]

"And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden."The fact that Jesus is God, and that God was in the world before Jesus was incarnate is immaterial.
Jesus, as the Christ, was not in the world before He became incarnate. It is the incarnate Christ against which the antichrist strives.
"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." 2 John 1:7
Before Jesus came in the flesh, there was no claim that He had come in the flesh, so there was no antichrist. But after He was incarnate, then the antichrist came, denying His coming, and denying His deity.

UNBELIEF 101 = "The fact that Jesus is God, and that God was in the world before Jesus was incarnate is immaterial."
UNBELIEF 102 = "Jesus, as the Christ, was not in the world before He became incarnate."
UNBELIEF 103 = "But after He was incarnate, then the antichrist came, denying His coming, and denying His deity."


TRUTH 101 = "And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden."
TRUTH 102 = "Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.
And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

 

[Doug Brents]

UNBELIEF 101 = "The fact that Jesus is God, and that God was in the world before Jesus was incarnate is immaterial."
UNBELIEF 102 = "Jesus, as the Christ, was not in the world before He became incarnate."
UNBELIEF 103 = "But after He was incarnate, then the antichrist came, denying His coming, and denying His deity."


TRUTH 101 = "And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden."
TRUTH 102 = "Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.
And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

What Jesus in the flesh before He was born of Mary? No. God (the Spirit) walked in the Garden with Adam. Jesus was not incarnate in the Garden.
Is the spirit of antichrist defined as those who deny that Jesus came in the flesh? Yes.
Thus, you cannot have that spirit in the world until after the fact that it denies is truth.

 

[DavidTree]

What Jesus in the flesh before He was born of Mary? No. God (the Spirit) walked in the Garden with Adam. Jesus was not incarnate in the Garden.
Is the spirit of antichrist defined as those who deny that Jesus came in the flesh? Yes.
Thus, you cannot have that spirit in the world until after the fact that it denies is truth.

John chapter 1

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”
And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

 

[Doug Brents]

John chapter 1

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”
And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Yes, we have established that Jesus existed before He was incarnate. But antichrist denies that Jesus was God incarnate. Thus, He had to be incarnate before antichrist has any meaning. Antichrist does not deny that God exists. It denies that Jesus is God (as Muslims and JWs do).

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, we have established that Jesus existed before He was incarnate. But antichrist denies that Jesus was God incarnate. Thus, He had to be incarnate before antichrist has any meaning. Antichrist does not deny that God exists. It denies that Jesus is God (as Muslims and JWs do).

The spirit of antichrist comes from where?

 

[Doug Brents]

The spirit of antichrist comes from where?

The spirit of antichrist is one of Satan's many tools and weapons. It is not a person, nor is it a future event. It is an attack against Christ by a wounded foe who knows that he will lose but who wants to condemn and take as many people with him as he can.

 

[DavidTree]

The spirit of antichrist is one of Satan's many tools and weapons. It is not a person, nor is it a future event. It is an attack against Christ by a wounded foe who knows that he will lose but who wants to condemn and take as many people with him as he can.

Who was in the Garden tempting Eve?

 

[DavidTree]

The spirit of antichrist is one of Satan's many tools and weapons. It is not a person, nor is it a future event. It is an attack against Christ by a wounded foe who knows that he will lose but who wants to condemn and take as many people with him as he can.

Just as the Holy Spirit emminates from the FATHER, so also the spirit of antichrist emminates from satan.

 

[Doug Brents]

Who was in the Garden tempting Eve?

No relevance to the discussion. Satan was in the Garden, but since the Christ was not yet incarnate Satan did not yet use his "antichrist" weapon.

Just as the Holy Spirit emminates from the FATHER, so also the spirit of antichrist emminates from satan.

Satan may be the strongest, wisest, most beautiful of God's angels, but he is only an angel; he is not God.
Further, the Holy Spirit does not emanate from the Father. The Holy Spirit the third of the three persons of God. He is a being, not an emanation.

 

[DavidTree]

No relevance to the discussion. Satan was in the Garden, but since the Christ was not yet incarnate Satan did not yet use his "antichrist" weapon.

Satan may be the strongest, wisest, most beautiful of God's angels, but he is only an angel; he is not God.
Further, the Holy Spirit does not emanate from the Father. The Holy Spirit the third of the three persons of God. He is a being, not an emanation.

ABSOLUTELY True on the Holy Spirit being the third Person of Elohim.

Both the Son and the Holy Spirit emminate from the FATHER = meaning that the THREE are ONE Elohim in the FATHER.

God is the Head of Christ
Christ is the Head of man.

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves."

 

[TomL]

I do not believe that antichrist is an individual. Almost none of Revelation is what it says it is; it is all figurative. I think the antichrist here is the increased spirit of antichrist that has been in the world since the first century, but it is grown stronger (as in the US today). But since this spirit is in the world already and has been since the first century, we are not awaiting any new sign of some antichrist. The sign has already been fulfilled, and Christ can return at any moment.

So there is no evidence which denied Christ can return at any time. I agree