Why there can be no gap between the 69th and 70th week

[TomL]

I'd say that you copped out and failed to engage in an actual discussion when you told me you didn't need to read.
So, I'll me this extremely simple for you.
The ideas you're presenting...
They strike me completely unbiblical, and since you clearly lack the wherewithal to actually explain why I, let alone anyone else, should believe you, just stop.
I don't see anything that would validate your opinions on the scripture here.



Have a great day.

You mean to tell me after all your discussions and reading the opinion of man, and running calculations you still cannot tell me what number week 1-70 the atonement fell on?

What was the value of your efforts then?

BTW I told you biblically why and when it was accomplished

Including when the decree was

when the anointed one was revealed

and in what week atonement was made

so your claim is totally false

and I did not need the opinion or calculations of man to do so

 

[SteveB]

You mean to tell me after all your discussions and reading the opinion of man, and running calculations you still cannot tell me what number week 1-70 the atonement fell on?

What was the value of your efforts then?

BTW I told you biblically why and when it was accomplished

Including when the decree was

when the anointed one was revealed

and in what week atonement was made

so your claim is totally false

and I did not need the opinion or calculations of man to do so

You enjoy your self-sufficient mentality.
I have more important and enjoyable activities to engage in.

 

[TomL]

You enjoy your self-sufficient mentality.
I have more important and enjoyable activities to engage in.

which apparently did not lead to a definitive answer

You mean to tell me after all your discussions and reading the opinion of man, and running calculations you still cannot tell me what number week 1-70 the atonement fell on?

What was the value of your efforts then?

BTW I told you biblically why and when it was accomplished

Including when the decree was

when the anointed one was revealed

and in what week atonement was made

 

[SteveB]

which apparently did not lead to a definitive answer

You mean to tell me after all your discussions and reading the opinion of man, and running calculations you still cannot tell me what number week 1-70 the atonement fell on?

What was the value of your efforts then?

BTW I told you biblically why and when it was accomplished

Including when the decree was

when the anointed one was revealed

and in what week atonement was made

Your faculty for paying attention is phenomenal!

 

[TomL]

Your faculty for paying attention is phenomenal!

so what has changed

You mean to tell me after all your discussions and reading the opinion of man, and running calculations you still cannot tell me what number week 1-70 the atonement fell on?

What was the value of your efforts then?

BTW I told you biblically why and when it was accomplished

Including when the decree was

when the anointed one was revealed

and in what week atonement was made

 

[SteveB]

so what has changed

You showed up and started playing king of the sandbox telling me what I'm allowed to think.

You mean to tell me after all your discussions and reading the opinion of man, and running calculations you still cannot tell me what number week 1-70 the atonement fell on?

Pity you lack the ability to learn.
You would have previously seen that the atonement by Jesus took place between the 69th and 70th seven.

What was the value of your efforts then?

Far more effective than yours.

BTW I told you biblically why and when it was accomplished

no. You told me TomL's opinion of the bible.
Oh, wait. That's man's opinion.
Gee Tom! You have a serious problem here.
You keep demanding i blindly believe the opinion of man.... you!
why would i do that, and not believe YHVH's Word?

Including when the decree was

which is curious, because that would have put it within the 70 years of the judgment requiring a 70 year sabbath for the land.

when the anointed one was revealed

Nisan 10, 31CE.

and in what week atonement was made

Yep. Nisan 14, 31CE.
4 Days after the end of the 69th seven.

 

[TomL]

You showed up and started playing king of the sandbox telling me what I'm allowed to think.

Pity you lack the ability to learn.
You would have previously seen that the atonement by Jesus took place between the 69th and 70th seven.


Far more effective than yours.


no. You told me TomL's opinion of the bible.
Oh, wait. That's man's opinion.
Gee Tom! You have a serious problem here.
You keep demanding i blindly believe the opinion of man.... you!
why would i do that, and not believe YHVH's Word?

which is curious, because that would have put it within the 70 years of the judgment requiring a 70 year sabbath for the land.

Nisan 10, 31CE.

Yep. Nisan 14, 31CE.
4 Days after the end of the 69th seven.

Sorry first I did not tell you what you are allowed to think

I told you where your error resided, quoting the word of God which you rejected based on the calculations of man

key point however between the 69th and the 70th week is not a week

and cannot satisfy what was stated in verse 24

Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

Those things are to transpire in the 70 weeks

You place atonement outside of the seventy weeks as such your view cannot possibly be correct as it is contrary to the text

 

[SteveB]

Sorry first I did not tell you what you are allowed to think

I told you where your error resided, quoting the word of God which you rejected based on the calculations of man

exactly where you tell me I'm not allowed to think.
Further demonstrating that you are not actually thinking.

key point however between the 69th and the 70th week is not a week

Well, Nisan 10 to Nisan 17 is in fact a real week, not a 7 year period.
So, here you are definitely mistaken.

and cannot satisfy what was stated in verse 24

Isaiah 53:5 is satisfied.
Once again demonstrating your myopic reasoning.

Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

Iniquity is atoned for.

Those things are to transpire in the 70 weeks

And? The 70th seven hasn't happened yet, so in fact 9:24 is satisfied.

You place atonement outside of the seventy weeks as such your view cannot possibly be correct as it is contrary to the text

Nope.
You forcefit Daniel 9:24-27 into your own understanding and opinions.

Thus, I reject the opinions of man.

There. That was really easy.

 

[TomL]

exactly where you tell me I'm not allowed to think.
Further demonstrating that you are not actually thinking.


Well, Nisan 10 to Nisan 17 is in fact a real week, not a 7 year period.
So, here you are definitely mistaken.


Isaiah 53:5 is satisfied.
Once again demonstrating your myopic reasoning.

Iniquity is atoned for.

And? The 70th seven hasn't happened yet, so in fact 9:24 is satisfied.

Nope.
You forcefit Daniel 9:24-27 into your own understanding and opinions.

Thus, I reject the opinions of man.

There. That was really easy.

Sorry, this was not my opinion

Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

all those things had to happen in seventy weeks

If your interpretation cannot assign atonement to one of the seventy weeks your view is false according to scripture not my opinion

BTW you just stated the 70th week has not happened yet

and we know atonement was not made in the 69th week

That leaves one option

It can only be logically claimed atonement is still future if it is to happen in the 70 weeks

a rather Christ dishonoring scenario

it either that or deny verse 24

neither are viable options

 

[Rockson]

Sorry, this was not my opinion

Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

all those things had to happen in seventy weeks

If your interpretation cannot assign atonement to one of the seventy weeks your view is false according to scripture not my opinion

BTW you just stated the 70th week has not happened yet

and we know atonement was not made in the 69th week

That leaves one option

It can only be logically claimed atonement is still future if it is to happen in the 70 weeks

a rather Christ dishonoring scenario

it either that or deny verse 24

neither are viable options

These arguments seem pretty sound to me. I'm always open to what others might want to say about it but it seems Dan 9: 24 is talking about the work of Christ on the cross. If it's not that then what is it?

 

[SteveB]

Sorry, this was not my opinion

Oh but it is.
If nobody else except you and your sources (Mauro and Anstey) can be trusted, it's exactly your opinion.
Based on Proverbs 3:5-8, Acts 17:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22, and others, I have the responsibility to corroborate your claim. It's not possible.

Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

all those things had to happen in seventy weeks

So, 490 days... I'd say that you have a serious problem. An Hebrew year is 360 days. As such, everything should have been completed by 536 BCE.

If your interpretation cannot assign atonement to one of the seventy weeks your view is false according to scripture not my opinion

Says the guy who can't actually prove his opinion, and the opinions of Mauro and Anstey are actually the truth.

BTW you just stated the 70th week has not happened yet

You're getting closer. I actually stated- the 70th seven......

and we know atonement was not made in the 69th week

Nope. It happened 4 days later, on the 14th of Nisan.
The 69th seven finished on Nisan 10.

That leaves one option

Oh you myopic person.
You're missing the fact that you are not YHVH.

It can only be logically claimed atonement is still future if it is to happen in the 70 weeks

Ever read Isaiah 55:8-11?

Isa 55:8-11 WEB 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,” says Yahweh. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain comes down and the snow from the sky, and doesn’t return there, but waters the earth, and makes it grow and bud, and gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 so is my word that goes out of my mouth: it will not return to me void, but it will accomplish that which I please, and it will prosper in the thing I sent it to do.

a rather Christ dishonoring scenario

then stop doing it.

it either that or deny verse 24

Then don't do it!

neither are viable options

I don't think so. Yet you have ground yourself into dust, rejecting that YHVH isn't beholden to either of us, or our ideas.

So, stop trying to make him be your slave.

 

[SteveB]

These arguments seem pretty sound to me. I'm always open to what others might want to say about it but it seems Dan 9: 24 is talking about the work of Christ on the cross. If it's not that then what is it?

That's not the issue here.
His issue is the timing.
As the op states...
In his opinion, there can be no gap between the 69th and 70th sevens.

His details are quite bizarre and he's completely unable to actually succeed in providing anything to validate it, except for 2, late 19th and early 20th century writers.

An earlier complaint was that the calendar calculations were off, because they were man made.
In doing some research on this, I found an article that describes this issue and in fact-- EVERYBODY'S calendar has been calculated, due to the era, the time that has passed. This means that his too is a man made calculation, and based on his logic, an untrustworthy calendar.

He further thinks that Cyrus is the one who issued the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.
But a clear observation is that He issued the decree to rebuild the temple.
As did others. Only Artexerxes actually issued a decree to rebuild the city walls.
Thus, nit only does his starting point fail, his whole set of ideas follows from there... thus, at this point, I have no problem whatsoever with rejecting what he's talking about.

 

[TomL]

Oh but it is.
If nobody else except you and your sources (Mauro and Anstey) can be trusted, it's exactly your opinion.
Based on Proverbs 3:5-8, Acts 17:11, 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22, and others, I have the responsibility to corroborate your claim. It's not possible.


So, 490 days... I'd say that you have a serious problem. An Hebrew year is 360 days. As such, everything should have been completed by 536 BCE.

Says the guy who can't actually prove his opinion, and the opinions of Mauro and Anstey are actually the truth.

You're getting closer. I actually stated- the 70th seven......

Nope. It happened 4 days later, on the 14th of Nisan.
The 69th seven finished on Nisan 10.

Oh you myopic person.
You're missing the fact that you are not YHVH.

Ever read Isaiah 55:8-11?

Isa 55:8-11 WEB 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,” says Yahweh. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain comes down and the snow from the sky, and doesn’t return there, but waters the earth, and makes it grow and bud, and gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 so is my word that goes out of my mouth: it will not return to me void, but it will accomplish that which I please, and it will prosper in the thing I sent it to do.



then stop doing it.

Then don't do it!

I don't think so. Yet you have ground yourself into dust, rejecting that YHVH isn't beholden to either of us, or our ideas.

So, stop trying to make him be your slave.

sorry, atonement in weeks 1-70 are the only option

Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

if you cannot place it in one of those weeks you have falsified scripture and appraised the opinion and calculations of man over that of the word of God

 

[SteveB]

sorry, atonement in weeks 1-70 are the only option

Yet a man's opinion, for which the man is incapable of explaining.

Daniel 9:24 (ESV) — 24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

if you cannot place it in one of those weeks you have falsified scripture and appraised the opinion and calculations of man over that of the word of God

Sounds like you're claiming that you are the only one who can know what the Bible says.

Well, as you continue to focus on only a couple passages, and ignore the whole collection of passages, I'm thinking that you just have an axe to grind, instead of actually paying attention.

 

[TomL]

Yet a man's opinion, for which the man is incapable of explaining.

Sounds like you're claiming that you are the only one who can know what the Bible says.

Nope many deny there is a gap between the 69th and the 70th week

You on the other hand sound like the opinions and calculations of man should be heeded over the word of God

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


There is but one option for atonement, it must be in one of the 70 weeks

 

[SteveB]

Nope many deny there is a gap between the 69th and the 70th week

Yet you can't actually explain why.

You on the other hand sound like the opinions and calculations of man should be heeded over the word of God

People who are far more educated and experienced in Christ than I am... yep! That is why the Holy Spirit gave us pastors, teachers, and overseers, etc... .
Or didn't you read that part of the bible?

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

And?

There is but one option for atonement, it must be in one of the 70 weeks

Let me know when you figure out the rest of what you continue to ignore.

I still reject your incoherent argument.

 

[TomL]

Yet you can't actually explain why.


People who are far more educated and experienced in Christ than I am... yep! That is why the Holy Spirit gave us pastors, teachers, and overseers, etc... .
Or didn't you read that part of the bible?

And?

Let me know when you figure out the rest of what you continue to ignore.

I still reject your incoherent argument.

lol

You failed to show anything incoherent

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


There is but one option for atonement, it must be in one of the 70 weeks

Its the gap idea which is incoherent

it was invented in support of dispensational theology by John Darby circa 1830

 

[Rockson]

There is but one option for atonement, it must be in one of the 70 weeks

Its the gap idea which is incoherent

it was invented in support of dispensational theology by John Darby circa 1830

I'm inclined to believe you're right but let me ask you something Tom. In putting forth that the 70 Weeks have been past you're not saying all things of futurism are wrong are you but just certain things of dispensational teaching?

 

[SteveB]

lol

You failed to show anything incoherent

Everything you've posted since I began discussing has been incoherent!

Daniel 9:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


There is but one option for atonement, it must be in one of the 70 weeks

Its the gap idea which is incoherent

it was invented in support of dispensational theology by John Darby circa 1830

 

[TomL]

Everything you've posted since I began discussing has been incoherent!

Then you must have a pretty low view of scripture seeing as what I posted was scripture and all you kept yammering about was the calculations of man.