Frank Russell
Well-known member
Wow, someone is making eschatology about Jesus and resurrection, it sounds all gospel-ly.
Why there can be no gap between the 69th and 70th week
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
DavidTree
Well-known member
Gap theory is man-made conjecture and cannot be found in Daniel 9:24-27 or any other place in scripture.
Scripture does not lie = "AFTER the 69th week MESSIAH is "cut-off"(crucified)
70 Weeks are Determined to Atone for Sin and to Bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS
God never lies.
SteveB
Well-known member
The crucifixion IS outside the 69th
4 days.
Palm Sunday is the end of the 69th seven. 173,880 days after the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.
yep. To Palm Sunday.
yep.
i just described it.
Actually it is.
Already have.
7 X 7 = 49 ; 62 × 7 = 434.
49 + 434 = 483
483 × 360 = 173, 880
DavidTree
Well-known member
GREAT - Thank You
There are TWO Cities
a.) New Jerusalem in Heaven
b.) earthbound Jerusalem who is in Bondage(Sin) with her children
SteveB
Well-known member
Ok.
Count it out for us.
According to the math (I showed in my post immediately before this one), I dealt with, its 173,880 days from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem to the Anointed One...
So, find the day the decree is given.
Then the day he's baptized.
Now count.
How many days is in your count?
It should be pretty straightforward.
How many days in the year remaining from the decree to the end of the year, there's 360 days in the Hebrew calendar, it starts on Nisan 1. Then how many years in between, then how many days from Nisan 1 to his baptism?
Count it out, and then give us the tally, show us your sources, and the mathematical calculations you used so we too can check out the numbers.
Do what I asked above, let us corroborate your tally and then we can discuss the rest of this.
SteveB
Well-known member
I'm doing the shopping and chores at the moment.
You can continue to wait.
SteveB
Well-known member
You did...
what
YOU
believe.
your argument is that my "beliefs " are wrong.
I'm saying yours are wrong.
so, it's clear that our respective opinions are irrelevant.
it's what the Truth ACTUALLY is that matters. And I'm thinking that you would agree with the fact that only Truth is relevant, regardless what our respective beliefs are!
so, Using Daniel 9's counting...
Calculate the days between the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, then show the result, including your sources, calculations, etc...
This isn't about winning an argument. It's about getting to the truth.
So far everyone with whom I'm acquainted will say that you are wrong. And I'm pretty sure that everyone you know will say that I, and my fellow believers are wrong.
So let's do the math.
I'm presently looking into this further, so I'll give an update later.
SteveB
Well-known member
Persia, Babylon, Rome, Egypt, Greece, etc... even the United States are all man made ideas. Built by men.
Yet we read in Daniel 2:19-23 that God puts up, and pulls down kings.
So, I'd say that you're trying too hard, and in doing so, excluding historical reality.
i never said it did lie.
It says- UNTO THE ANOINTED ONE...
so historical events atone for sin?
i thought Jesus atoned for sin.
No he doesn't.
Humans however do.
So, how can I know that whoever told you these things weren't lied to by their teachers, and your teachers perpetrated the same lies to you?
DavidTree
Well-known member
We do not need to know the exact day but we can know by what the LORD accomplished.
Daniel 9:24
24“Seventy [e]weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
ALL of the above was accomplished by the LORD Jesus Christ for ALL who will Believe on Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me,
but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
Hebrews ch10
And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ[b] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.
14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
(Everlasting Righteousness)
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” = END of sins
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
DavidTree
Well-known member
SEE Post #69
DavidTree
Well-known member
P.S. -
Without God bringing in Everlasting Righteousness by sending His Son to die for the sins of ALL Nations,
no one could be SAVED.
Hebrews 10: 14 (Everlasting Righteousness) For by a single offering He has perfected for all time(everlasting) those who are being sanctified.
Hebrews 10:17 - “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” = End of Sins = Daniel 9:24
Rockson
Well-known member
Could it be when it's talking about the first resurrection it's talking about the type of resurrection it is? That would mean everything that is in the first resurrection would be defined as those who are resurrected to LIFE? The second type of resurrection would be those who are resurrected to the death.
This would mean that Jesus was the firstfruits of the 1st Resurrection......then the Pre Wrath saints, (not PreTrib but PreWrath would likewise be another first group type and that would be of the 1st resurrection..and then other groups when the Lord comes back at the end of Revelation? It could all still be called the First Resurrection for it's the first meaning of a type that is anything that is to LIFE.
Interesting we do see another type of maybe the first resurrection in Rev 11:12 where it states the two witnesses are killed and then they're raised and it says they were taken up in a cloud. Sounds very similar to 1 Thess 4: 15 but we know it's not the same event.
Rockson
Well-known member
But where? Your good pastor gave you a passage. What's the exact verse which would justify him saying this? It seems to me after just reading these verses that he's imposing this into the text with the idea can't you see it? I'm not saying there isn't something one could string together and make a potentially credible assumption but it should be noted it's just not in the actual text.
DavidTree
Well-known member
There are no "other " groups of saints.
"Left-Behind saints" is the most vulgar lie ever to be perpetuated by the lie of pre-trib.
Hebrews 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
So we may boldly say:
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”
OPEN your eyes dear Brethren to the Love of God and rebuke the lies that come from 'pre-trib'.
Ephesians 4:25
Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,”
for we are members of one another.
Any words that go against the words of God are lying words.
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SteveB
Well-known member
What's the EXACT verse?
Hmm...
Hebrew doesn't have punctuation. So I'd say that it's exactly vss 24, 25, 26 and 27.
Dan 9:24-27 OHBa 24 שָׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ עַֽל־עַמְּךָ֣׀ וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע וּלְהָתֵ֤ם חַטָּאת֙ וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָזֹ֣ון וְנָבִ֔יא וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים׃ 25 וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנֹ֤ות יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֨ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְחֹ֣וב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצֹ֖וק הָעִתִּֽים׃ 26 וְאַחֲרֵ֤י הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין לֹ֑ו וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצֹּ֣ו בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹׁמֵמֹֽות׃ 27 וְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית׀ זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֤ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵֽם׃ פ
I recall 3 or 4 letters in hebrew that have a regular letter, and what's known as a final letter. It is the letter that finishes a word. M, N, K, and P.
Beyond that, it's been 44 years since I read hebrew well enough.
Work it out.
DavidTree
Well-known member
There is only ONE Resurrection for the Saints that will ONLY take place at His Second Coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 , Matthew 13:37-18, Luke 13:24-30 , Hebrews 9:28 and many more passages of TRUTH
Matthew 13:37-43
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
And He said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”
but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Rockson
Well-known member
Oh come on Dave it would not be! Even if it's not true it should never be considered what you've just stated above. I'd kindly suggest that you're being way too extreme.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Your kindness is BEAUTIFUL
lies are UGLY
If God did not say it AND it contradicts God's words, then it is a very UGLY lie and we should treat it as such.
Hebrews 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
So we may boldly say:
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”
The most vulgar lie to even suggest is that "God leaves behind His Saints."
So vulgar is it that God calls it a CANCER!
Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and,
“Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
Adding to Gods words was the first "iniquity" that brought down all of mankind = THINK my Brother, THINK TRUTH
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DavidTree
Well-known member
OK - i edited Post #79
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