GeneZ
Well-known member
True, or false?
" yet for us there is but one God, the Father"... 1 Cor 8:6
.................
Why The Trinity is Wrong: Definition
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
True, or false?
" yet for us there is but one God, the Father"... 1 Cor 8:6
.................
I already told you. Here is my answer to you again:
The big question that everyone needs to answer is Jesus' question:
(Matt 16:15) He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
If you say that He is the Uncreated "Word of God", the Great "I Am" of the OT, "my Lord and my God!", etc... then you're well on your way towards Trinitarianism.
GeneZ
Well-known member
You just diverted away from finding the answer being asked for.
What makes someone "enabled" to grasp the Trinity?
And?
What makes someone unable?
..............
Wrangler
Well-known member
Scripture explicitly says ‘there is one God, the Father’. You said you cannot agree with that.
Wrangler
Well-known member
True.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that is sufficient for us.”
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father. So how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:8-9
If that is so?
And, it is..
Then Jesus would have been correct to say....
He who has seen Me has seen God.
For, the Father is God.
Jesus is God being expressed in human terms to reveal God, who can not be perceived by man, in a manner men relate to!
To man? Jesus is God being made knowable, and known. John 1:18
Wrangler
Well-known member
Another back door attempt to violate the 1C.
I can see my father in his drivers license or a mirror. Doesn’t make them God.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Jesus implicitly said one thing that is undeniable.
"To see me is to see the Father."
John 1:18 says man unassisted, can not see God.
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father. So how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:8-9
Then Jesus would have been correct to say....
He who has seen Me has seen God.
Wait... are you now saying that the Father is not God?
To see the Father is to see God. You yourself said so!
Stop being a hypocrite. God is trying to save you from error..
GeneZ
Well-known member
Exodus 20:3: “You shall have no other gods before Me.”
Jesus never broke the Law.
He is God the Father being manifested exactly in human expression and form.
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father. So how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:8-9
Why? The Father wants to be known by humans.
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APAK
Active member
Honestly your response is confusing and trite without any useful feedback I can appreciate. I do not know if that was your intent?
For example, my opening statement was not for you to define the word 'honor' for me. I never said the word honor was inaccurate. Don't be so simplistic in your thinking here. You did not understand what and why I wrote evidently.
I was building up to distinguish the word 'honor' from 'worship' for one. And they are quite different of course.
And you lost me with Isaiah and you being ahead of me. What is all this cryptic writing about? You are very confusing...you know that this Isaiah passage is speaking of the Father God the LORD, and Jesus is reciting it in the new Testament (Matt 15:8-9) of course on the behest of his Father that dwells within him. I hope you do not have a problem that the Son of God is condemning folks via his Father's word as was told also in the OT by the prophet Isaiah. Jesus is the lord not the LORD of the OT of course....
And what is al this about 'drawing near to me'...You know that this is not Yahshua speaking in Isaiah right? It is the Father God of Yahshua. Are you trying to tie some scripture together by force? Are you confused between the LORD (the only God) and the (lord) Lord(Son of God)? It seems that way....Why even comment if you do not want to take the time to communicate with me effectively?
And who said that Yahshua is JUST another brother? Is this where mentally you are losing patience with my post and now getting desperate with your response to me by again by flinging out more empty words that are meaningless to any casual observer ?
..what...'I'm not going to call you master'.....have you left completely your senses. What is the meaning and cause of all this emotionally charged writing? What grudge do you wear....?
A person with your limited understanding of what I wrote or does not care less what I wrote is bound to be a very difficult subject to have an honest and edifying discussion with I see now. You seem to be a very loose cannon that is triggered or will go off for reasons you only know. Are you happy with having Christ in your life?... I am!
Not in John 5:23.
John 5:23
so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
One of the ways the Lord Jesus honored the Father (John 8:49) was by praying to Him (Matthew 11:25). Since the Father is honored by our prayers to Him, so too, the Son is honored by our prayers to Him.
We are to honor our father and mother (Ephesians 6:2), but this doesn't mean we are to pray to them. This is why we are never told to honor our parents "even as" the Father, but we are to do so in relation to the Lord Jesus which entails praying to Him.
All will honor the Son even as they honor the Father (John 5:23) = To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be...honor...forever and ever. (Revelation 5:13)
APAK
Active member
I'm sorry I can only say you lack understanding on this subject...and there is zero pride or ego in this charge. I cannot communicate with you effectively Fred. I see you fail to see the local and outer context of this scripture you pose. So let me just pass and move on to another subject for now. thanks Feel free to response. I will not respond though.
Oh//// as a Trinitarian you believe Jesus was not a human person right?
But then you provide zero proof to back up your claim
Typical.
You won't address the evidence I provided but then aske me a question with the expectation I will answer it.
No dice!
Here ya go..
Expository Dictionary of Bible Words: Honoring God in the sense of worshiping and reverencing him in a right spirit is affirmed in John 5:23 (Honor - τιμάω, page 407, Stephen D. Renn).
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You appealed to nonsense for the definition. You didn't provide a single source for the definition. You simply "mused" about it from your own mind.
Do you really think this is the first time I've had this debate. I've debated the Trinity for a very very long time. It is a complicated doctrine that most people do not understand. Which why I don't spend much time doing it anymore. If I see someone dishonoring Christ, that is where I get involved.
It is really simple. Worship honors the Father. Do you deny this? You need to deal with the parrell demands of how the Father along with the Son.
In ALL WAYS, you must HONOR the Son equally with the Father.
No need to whine about something I didn't do. No grudge whatsoever. I don't know you. You don't know me. This wasn't personal. I'm dealing with the teaching. If you're going to make yourself equal to Jesus Christ, then don't I have to call you Master?
I'm more than happy. I pray to Christ. I worship Christ. I fellowship with Christ. I know that when I deal with Him.... I'm dealing with the Father.
101G
Well-known member
not to get in your conversation, but is not the Son who is the Father the same one person?
101G.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No. Though some do not like the word "Person" when it comes to the teaching of the Holy Trinity. I personally use the word "Persons" when it comes to the Individual roles of the Trinity. Persona is a problem but "Persons" is fine with me.
Though the Trinity is One, there are distinct operations. The Father did not die for sin. Though he did die in the Son. In Unity, I believe they shared the experience. I don't require others to believe this. That is my belief.
To say that the Father and Son are One person is to fall into the false teachings of One God in many manifestations.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
When I say "separate operation" I'm not denying the doctrine of "Inseparable Operations". I'm simply saying there is room to disagree in some areas of the Holy Trinity. It is complicated doctrine. When God does something, there is no division in operation. However, some may see certain actions of the individual Persons of the Holy Trinity as an "operation". Which is often true and one of the reason that people often "talk past" one another when discussing the topic.
101G
Well-known member
Ok, let's see what the bible, God's holy word say. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." so the Word, the Son made all things... correct. NOW THIS, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
here in Isaiah the LORD, who is Father said he "MADE ALL THUNGS", and he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" when he made all things. so the Word, who is God, in John 1:3 is the LORD in Isaiah 44:24, else one has two separate CREATORS who MADE ALL THINGS. your choice.
101G.
civic
Well-known member
And it says there is One Lord as well so by your standards the Father cannot be the One Lord. That wipes out the entire OT where YHWH is called Lord and eliminates the Father from being YHWH- the One Lord.
as they say: " you cannot have your cake and eat it too" my friend.
hope this helps !!!
