101G
Active Member
that's three separate and distinct Gods.Can you count ?
Father is one, Son is two and the Holy Spirit is three- These Three are One.
count um.
101G.
Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
count um.
101G.
That some sad crap. Have a good one.
If Jesus is not the Word of God.
John is a liar, and we need to confront him and all of his gospel for being even true... @civic... I am serious if this is a lie. Then everything is in question....
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John is a liar, and we need to confront him and all of his gospel for being even true... @civic... I am serious if this is a lie. Then everything is in question....
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
101G
Active Member
to all,
God is not a UNITY, nor is he a separate and distinct person of three. no, that's none biblical
bible states God is a Diversity or the EQUAL SHARE of HIMSELF in Flesh. and it is evidence in this scripture that many are filmier with. but the bible is full of this EQUAL SHARE, which is what the ECHAD Express.
and here is that scripture, listen, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
evidence #1. "Who, being in the form of God"
evidence #2. "to be equal with God:"
now go and find out the truth.
101G.
God is not a UNITY, nor is he a separate and distinct person of three. no, that's none biblical
bible states God is a Diversity or the EQUAL SHARE of HIMSELF in Flesh. and it is evidence in this scripture that many are filmier with. but the bible is full of this EQUAL SHARE, which is what the ECHAD Express.
and here is that scripture, listen, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
evidence #1. "Who, being in the form of God"
evidence #2. "to be equal with God:"
now go and find out the truth.
101G.
civic
Active Member
nice try as you know from 100's of previous discussions trinitarians do not believe your caricature you paint of us.that's three separate and distinct Gods.
count um.
101G.
civic
Active Member
101G
Active Member
Why does the Son become Subject to his Father if they are all coequal?
Jesus is the simply the expression of God's Word - which is a resemblance of Yahavahs Heart... because he is the Word of God.
Jesus came forth from Yahweh... And had Yahweh with him by the holy spirit, along with being the Word of God in flesh, they were all working to reconcile the world back to Yahweh, by Yahweh in Christ helping him, overcome the flesh, sin, death, satan, etc... darkness, and all then would be able to have access to Yahweh, because of his Word... whom conqured things normal man could not... having none of man whom were of God chosen people could ever keep the law fully, and Yeshua came to destory this barrier.
civic
Active Member
The Sons pre existence in John’s gospel. There are dozens of other scriptures in other places verifying the Eternal existence of the Son.
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory
These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.
John 1:15
15 John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
John 1:30
"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'
John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre existed.
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.
Again we see the pre existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.
John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.
This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.
John 8:23
"You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."
Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:1,5
“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God. Below again we see His pre existence and in 17:25 Jesus again states the Father sent the Son into the world
John 17:24
"Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.
Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
And
Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
These 2 verses say that he is before all things.
Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Here we see that Jesus is the offspring of David, yet he is also the root of David, which at appears to show existance before King David.
Luke 10:18
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Compare Luke 10:18 with Revelation 12:1-10 and it appears that Satan and his angels fell to the earth before the birth of Christ as a man. Now we know that Jesus was the Word and was with God in the beginning and was God- John 1:1
Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
Micah 5:2 talks about someone who will rule Israel and who's origin is from ancient times. Who but Jesus could fit that description?
So Jesus was with God in the beginning. We also know from certain scriptures that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and it is assumed that Jesus gave the Law. We are also told in Acts:7:30-39 that an Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses through whom God spoke and this is the same Angel who spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai and passed on the living words (The Law) to Moses.
30 "After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai.
31 When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice:
32 'I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.'Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look.
33 "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground.
34 I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.'
35 "This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, 'Who made you ruler and judge?' He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
36 He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the desert.
37 "This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'
38 He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.
39 "But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt.
We are then told in 1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
So is the Angel of the Lord, Christ? Well I am not sure, but I know that Christ accompanied Moses and the Israelites. Perhaps the correct model to look at is the one mentioned in Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Here we can see that the order of the Revelation started with the Originator which is God. He then passed it to Jesus Christ who sent it to his Angel and then to John. So perhaps it is possible that the Angel mentioned is the same Angel mentioned in Acts:7:30-39. Either way it still suggests that Jesus Christ existed at the time of Moses.
Moving on we read the following in this passage.
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Verse 2 is talking about the son and it says that God made the universe through him, (in the context of him being a son). The word universe in this scripture means Age.
aion {ahee-ohn'}
1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age
We even use the word 'aion' (eon or aeon) in English to refer to Age. So if we read the last part of this verse as AGE, we get the following: appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the age.
hope this helps !!!
I am no stranger to what that says. It says God's Word.
what about it? You think I am stupid and I dont know what the heck I am talking about and you gotta keep sharing and going over and over and over and over this stuff that is so mind numbing dude...
You never quoted a single passage which says "Eternal son, was flesh and bone, from the begining of time."
praise_yeshua
Active Member
No problem with your rant. At times, I do it myself. I'm struggling with High BP and have been thinking about trying the legal hemp products. I've used about every BP med there is and they all make me feel horrible. I've stopped them all now. Feel much better physically now than I have in years.
Our own self image is based upon what we believe. Would you agree?
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
"Imagination/Images" create idols. Idols of imaginations.
Its not a rant its just general discussion...
Can you answer this question for me @praise_yeshua?
If you follow Yeshua, what are some of the things you tend to do or believe concerning that?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You used the word rant. I was just referencing what you called it.
General discussion is fine with me...
civic
Active Member
and some people don't like the word debate/apologetics but do the same thing by calling it a "discussion" lol.
Cool. I am lost now....
Its good to see you alive, along with the rest of these people here and thank you all for discussing with me.
Listen @Rockson,
I do believe people should never accept a pastors word for truth, even if they been teaching for 40 years, even 2 years....
People should be encouraged to seek for God in faith, and to be encouraged to read their bible for themselves, and dont get tangled up in doctrines of men, that mean nothing, or vain traditions, or vain reputitions that mean nothing... and love is part of faith, and therefore faith is an action which expresses love when it comes from abiding in the vine of the Lord Yeshua, and his Father cuts people back when need be... to improve the fruit producition if they continue to stay grounded and settle in faith, knowing that not everyone may love them, but they are able to love others, because of the merit of Yeshua, even despite them in the postiion they may be in.
I dont agreee with apologetics, so that is why I continue to disagree because you are going way to far, from a general discussion by making into apologetics...
I wish would understand that and you would be a lot better at talking to me than quoting the scripture all the time... so you are able to not let a defense go or down in discussion, that brings forth a problem.
but that is your choice to correct not mine... sometimes I wish I did have a face to talk to an a sound to hear, but really I am okay for now just typing on this keyboard...
