Bob Carabbio
Active Member
Many more than "three"!!!
Why Calvinism is a bad thing.
- Thread starter Dizerner
- Start date
Dizerner
Active Member
Three within the pale of Christendom who think Jesus died for our sins.
You either believe in a form of Divine Determinism, or you believe in free will with a sin nature, or you believe in free will without a sin nature.
I'm not talking about non-Christian beliefs, such as Islam, new age spiritualism, atheism, etc.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I simply said this to an Arminian. I was not limiting choices.
I'm not a Calvinist nor an Arminian. Yet, I do share beliefs with both.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Partial Divine Determinism creates more choices.
God sets boundaries and defintes limits. Man moves of his own freewill within those boundaries. That is why evil exists. Calvinism and Arminianism are both based upon false assumptions.
I know because the Scriptures tell us such.
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
I know you fail to see it yourself. Your words establish such.
I'm not limited by your own self assessment.
You said "Sure there is, because God has offered us salvation.".... in response to my comments. "However, there is no effort or value in "asking" God to save you."
I used the word "effort" and "value".
No. Which is my point. They are hard distinct relative only to God's direct action. Which leaves nothing to choose.
Consideration demands complications. How many times have you accepted a simple "Yes or No" answer to things of Eternal value. I do agree that man complications it. That is actually what you're doing here by oversimplifying it when it is more complex than you allow.
We agree in this. I was going simply by your previous comments above in reference to "effort" and "value".
Dizerner
Active Member
This logically just equates to a free will position.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
It more complicated than just freewill. It creates predisposition. Which limits the power of freewill.
civic
Active Member
Provisionism is not pelagian
Dizerner
Active Member
I don't like the term Pelagian, I just used it on a historical basis.
I try to avoid these particular kinds of labels, and even dislike the labels Calvinism and Arminianism.
I have strong criticisms of Provinisionism and have posted them here on the forum:
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I'm not a Provisionist but I do believe Provisionism is better than either Calvinism or Arminianism. My problem with Provisionism is generally the same with Arminianism. It limits the work of God and ultimately creates a perspective that creates a meritorious effort to repentance.
civic
Active Member
Exactly
Dizerner
Active Member
There are degrees of free will, but whether there is any free will at all is a binary proposition.
Dizerner
Active Member
Yes, I have some similar criticisms.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
There is very seldom a "true of false" answer that can result from the complexion that exists in the subject. Even when there is, it should always be within a narrow context.
Dizerner
Active Member
Many truths are binary, you can't avoid that.
There either IS a God or there is NOT a God—binary.
Jesus either IS God or he is NOT God—binary.
There either IS an afterlife or there is NOT an afterlife—binary.
There either IS a degree of free will, or there is NO free will—binary.
GeneZ
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
It is very important that we rightfully recognize all the varying aspects and limits of freewill.
GeneZ
Active Member
A big assumption concerning predestination has been the crack in the dam. The assumption won't hold water.
For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence."
According to Ephesians 1:4, what were we chosen for? Salvation? Where does it say that?
We were "chosen IN Him."
Chosen for what?
Why, "chosen in Him?
That question holds the key...
For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence."
According to Ephesians 1:4, what were we chosen for? Salvation? Where does it say that?
We were "chosen IN Him."
Chosen for what?
Why, "chosen in Him?
That question holds the key...
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Corporate Election is a Christocentric view of Election. I've believed it since I was young man and before someone decided to "coin the term". I believed because I read Ephesians 1:4 and believed it.
Since that day, I have stood against the Calvinist position of election that God has chosen THEM and then determined the means of salvation through Jesus Christ. It is essential to see election only in Jesus Christ. If a person can accept this fact, then they can also see that God's intent in Creation was to produce the "new creature" in Christ Jesus. It was never God's work in Adam alone. Adam was just the beginning.
GeneZ
Active Member
Let's get down to the nitty gritty, please, of the meaning of "being chosen in Him."
We are the Bride of Christ? Yes.
Eve was the Bride of Adam? Yes.
Where was Eve before being manifested overtly?
She.. Eve, was "in Adam." Hidden in Adam.
And, where are we right now?
Ephesians 2:6-7
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed
in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
We are now hidden in Him in heaven, because we were "chosen to be in Him" before the foundation of the world.
For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence."
QUESTION:
Was Moses chosen to be the Bride of Christ? No.
Was David chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world? No.
For, Moses and David were not by God chosen to be alive in the Church age.
There will be a new heaven and a new earth...
Only the Church will have its eternal home in Heaven!
God could have had Moses to be the Bride of Christ? Could have. Yes.
But, God sovereignly chose out from all of souls of whom God knows would choose to believe?
Only those He predestined to be alive to believe during the church age!
We were predestined to be alive during the Church age by God, to assure we would become the Bride of Christ!
As of now? We are "hid in Him."
Just as Even was hid in Adam's body before she was to be revealed!
grace and peace ................
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