Why Calvinism is a bad thing.

[GeneZ]

God's Justice is a character trait.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9​

Justice -noun - the quality of being just or fair. God is just! ​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness."​

1 John 1:9 works because of the satisfaction of God's justice completed on the Cross!

That act of God's justice on the Cross saves us from our sins!

​

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, ​

and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:7​

​

God's sovereignty does not purify us from all sin. His Justice does!

 

[Dizerner]

But God didn't beat up his innocent Son because he was so angry about your mistakes he had to see some kind of blood somewhere!!!!!

GOD IS LOVE!!!

 

[atpollard]

I would like a Bible verse that God violates justice.

Just one will do.

“The soul that sins shall die.”
(according to God, that is JUSTICE.)

 

[civic]

God's Justice is a character trait.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9​

Justice -noun - the quality of being just or fair. God is just! ​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness."​

1 John 1:9 works because of the satisfaction of God's justice completed on the Cross!

That act of God's justice on the Cross saves us from our sins!

​

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, ​

and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:7​

​

God's sovereignty does not purify us from all sin. His Justice does!

Actually its His love not His Sovereignty or justice.

 

[Dizerner]

“The soul that sins shall die.”
(according to God, that is JUSTICE.)

Amen.

Surely God will never do wickedly, Nor will the Almighty pervert justice.

Job 34:12

 

[armylngst]

Normally I'd insist on someone making claims like this to provide Scripture. But you can't. And you haven't. So I won't since all the "proof" you've provided is opinion.

Now "Calvinists" through the ages have been very particular about how they present their soteriology. You can either choose ( laugh ) to address that here or not. But I'll raise your "'cuz" with a "nuh uh" and this half of a millennium debate will continue on in another forum as stupidly and fruitlessly as in all the others.

What I found interesting is though Calvin believed in election and pre-destination, he didn't preach the gospel that way. His preaching of the gospel was to the persuasion of the heart, soul, and mind of the non-believer. (They say this was because of his humanist lawyer background.) So, while he believed in the election and pre-destination, he preached as to break through to the believer with persuasion. Nothing wrong with that, because, while election and predestination are true, we do not know who God has elected, and who is predestined to be God's children, so we should preach as though our lives depend upon it, because someone's life does. Election and predestination should be far from our mind when we preach the gospel. Some plant the seed, some water, but it is God who gives the increase. Nowhere does it say that we should attempt to seek out those whom God will save, because we can never/will never know. We will only see the results of our labor in heaven.
[edited for spelling]

 

[Dizerner]

Normally I'd insist on someone making claims like this to provide Scripture. But you can't. And you haven't. So I won't since all the "proof" you've provided is opinion.

Now "Calvinists" through the ages have been very particular about how they present their soteriology. You can either choose ( laugh ) to address that here or not. But I'll raise your "'cuz" with a "nuh uh" and this half of a millennium debate will continue on in another forum as stupidly and fruitlessly as in all the others.

One thing you need to realize is no one can bypass the need for presuppositions and just "get" the meaning from words and grammar alone.

Even words and grammar involve metaphysical referents and are not self-defining.

Thus, in the end. all the "proof" both you, I, and anyone, can present is just the revelation of the Triune God.

Calvinists aren't bypassing the problem of logically justified belief somehow by their massive intelligent and super thorough exegesis.

That's a logically impossibility, so all sides are "just making assertions," from a logical point of view.

And the assertions I made are backed by the spiritual logic behind them.

I'll raise your "nuh uh" with a "is too"!

 

[civic]

Thus, in the end. all the "proof" both you, I, and anyone, can present is just the revelation of the Triune God.

Amen and that God is love within His Being/nature/character.

I'm glad we agree

 

[civic]

Heading to church be back in a bit.

 

[Dizerner]

Amen and that God is love within His Being/nature/character.

I'm glad we agree

Yes, and he's also holy!

Let's not sacrifice one attribute for another, but rather combine them both!

 

[Arial]

Yes, and he's also holy!

Let's not sacrifice one attribute for another, but rather combine them both!

Or include them both as equal, rather than defining for God what love is and what holiness is, using the finite human mind to measure with. The perfect love that is God is greater in scope than ours and goes where I mind cannot reach. His love includes the whole picture. Ours is tunnel vision at best. The same with His holiness.

All His attributes complement one another, none ever waxing and waning. None stepping aside in favor of the other.

 

[GeneZ]

“The soul that sins shall die.”
(according to God, that is JUSTICE.)

What was the context? Ezekiel 18:20?

Israel in national apostasy and was coming under judgment from God.
Ezekiel as a prophet was warning the people about who will die, and who will survive.

20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

.........

 

[Dizerner]

All His attributes complement one another, none ever waxing and waning. None stepping aside in favor of the other.

I would urge you to consider that logic and Scripture do not present us a love that desires to destroy for its own sake.

A God who is loving does not make things for an unloving purpose, they choose that destiny for themselves.

Love by the Biblical definition does have to desire the best state of affairs for the thing loved.

 

[Dizerner]

Ezekiel as a prophet was warning the people about who will die, and who will survive.

He was doing far more than that.

He was giving timeless spiritual moral principles, and the death was more than physical, just like with Adam.


The way you are arguing is like as if everything in the letter to the Ephesians only applies to those in Ephesus.

Thus only the Ephesians were seated in heavenly places, and no one else.

 

[civic]

Or include them both as equal, rather than defining for God what love is and what holiness is, using the finite human mind to measure with. The perfect love that is God is greater in scope than ours and goes where I mind cannot reach. His love includes the whole picture. Ours is tunnel vision at best. The same with His holiness.

All His attributes complement one another, none ever waxing and waning. None stepping aside in favor of the other.

Innate attributes are different from the creature / creation attributes . Different purpose and identity.

 

[Arial]

I would urge you to consider that logic and Scripture do not present us a love that desires to destroy for its own sake.

That wouldn't be love now would it? I don't recall saying such a thing.

A God who is loving does not make things for an unloving purpose, they choose that destiny for themselves.

Did I say He did? I'm thinking you did not understand my post.

Love by the Biblical definition does have to desire the best state of affairs for the thing loved.

The Bible does not actually give a definition of love. We define it. The Bible shows us what love does, it shows us love in action, so we know the attitude we are to have with one another. That is for us. We have a relationship with God, either as a believer or not a believer. And we have relationships with our fellow humans. And our human relationships are an analogy of God. Similar in some ways but never exact in any way. (That image and likeness thing.)

Included in God's love is a hatred of evil and judgement against it. He tells us to hate evil and leave the judgment up to Him.

 

[Dizerner]

That wouldn't be love now would it? I don't recall saying such a thing.

I'm glad we agree on that.

 

[GeneZ]

Actually its His love not His Sovereignty or justice.

God's love could not save Jesus when he bore our sins.

God's love can not compromise with arrogant believers because of His justice.

​

God resists the proud (believer), But gives grace to the humble (believer)."​

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. ​

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you."​

​

James 4:6-8 tells us what?

God's righteousness demands justice.
Therefore God is not going to love the arrogant believer.
God can not sovereignly love the arrogant.
Nor, will His justice allow it.

Love has no power to change God's justice, but God justice will determine how God will express his love.

................

 

[GeneZ]

He was doing far more than that.

He was giving timeless spiritual moral principles, and the death was more than physical, just like with Adam.


The way you are arguing is like as if everything in the letter to the Ephesians only applies to those in Ephesus.

Thus only the Ephesians were seated in heavenly places, and no one else..

I was bringing atpollard back to the context to put it into perspective after he had his out of context rant.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/why-calvinism-is-a-bad-thing.24/post-657

You are jumping in now as if I were addressing you.
...............

 

[Dizerner]

God's love could not save Jesus when he bore our sins.

God's love can not compromise with arrogant believers because of His justice.

​

God resists the proud (believer), But gives grace to the humble (believer)."​

Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. ​

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you."​

​

James 4:6-8 tells us what?

God's righteousness demands justice.
Therefore God is not going to love the arrogant believer.
God can not sovereignly love the arrogant.
Nor, will His justice allow it.

Love has no power to change God's justice, but God justice will determine how God will express his love.

................

Very eloquently stated!!