Why Calvinism is a bad thing.

[civic]

False characterization on your part.
It is my experience that there are far more hyperCalvinists now dictating the modern direction of Calvinism than ever before.

I just watched White talking about how is glad that he doesn't have to worry about making mistakes preaching the Gospel because of the hyperCalvinist view of Election. We can debate the differences. I usually avoid these types of"contests" because they generally go nowhere.

Yikes

 

[Eleazar]

I just listened to John Piper

Watershed differences between Calvinism and Armenianism It was only a 8 minute video with a transcript.

Watershed Differences Between Calvinists and Arminians

The five points tease out the differences between Calvinists and Arminians, but how can parents teach them to their kids simply and clearly?

www.desiringgod.org

 

[civic]

I just listened to John Piper

Watershed differences between Calvinism and Armenianism It was only a 8 minute video

Watershed Differences Between Calvinists and Arminians

The five points tease out the differences between Calvinists and Arminians, but how can parents teach them to their kids simply and clearly?

www.desiringgod.org

He did not represent Arminians . Provenient grace is God acting first and man responding to Gods grace. That’s not man being the decisive factor it’s both God and man working together which is synergistic. He misrepresented the Arminian position .

 

[Eleazar]

He did not represent Arminians . Provenient grace is God acting first and man responding to Gods grace. That’s not man bring the decisive factor it’s both God and man working together which is synergistic. He misrepresented the Arminian position .

Funny how that works isn't it? You got to love them for trying though.

 

[GeneZ]

Welcome to the dark world of compatibilism, where reason and logic no longer apply....

God in his "sovereignty" wants to expose to themselves, and to others, those believers who are naturally religious in their flesh.
He allows for false doctrine to continue for those who seek a form of religion that walks hand in hand with their natural way of
wanting to see things.

Here is why!

​

"In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you,
and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which
of you have God’s approval.."

1 Corinthians 11:18-19
​

God allows for what we see amongst us to happen because we are in a Divine audition to see who qualifies for eternal rewards. Rewards that He wishes we all would receive.

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has
been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will
suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.


1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

The truth will be sorted out at the Lord's Evaluation of the saints. Right now, the conflict we face serves as a warning to those who find themselves having an affinity for illogical doctrine. Its a warning from God, by having other believers (who do not share in that natural weakness) logically refuting the false teaching.

Yet... each side helps the other to see the error of their own thinking while opening doors to have those are learning in the Spirit, to begin to think in doctrinal ways they never knew they could before. Romans 8:28!


grace and peace ............

.​

 

[Administrator]

THC is very effective with Alzheimer’s patients and those with cancer. So it can be used medicinally which is probably better than most other heavy prescription drugs with terrible side effects .

I can dig it. Smoking the cannabis and having it go from a your lungs to your bloodstream to your brain Is probably what's not a real good idea. First of all it's addictive. I know they say it's not but it is. And it can't possibly be good for your lungs. Now what you're talking about, medical marijuana or just the chemical THC in whatever form it's being Administered is a good thing.

And what you're talking about and doing pot just as a recreational mood altering drug are way different.

 

[Arial]

The difference between your theology and mine is yours is centered around man and the fall whereas mine is centered solely upon Gods nature and character within His Being apart from creation, His Innate attributes apart from Creation .

The problem with that statement is that none of it is true. My theology is centred around God and who He is. As well, God dealing with sinful humanity. It is man's fall that God is dealing with. It is what the Bible is about. What redemption is about.

Your theology seems to revolve around one single attribute of God--- love---and if you do so apart from creation you miss the point entirely. The entire Bible is addressed to the creatures He created, revealing Himself to them, and pertains to the redemption of these creatures and all of creation along with them.

Wrath is also an attribute of God, otherwise He would not speak of it or use it. As are justice, mercy, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, eternal, self existent, triune etc.

So don't be telling me what my theology is in such a high handed manner. So far you get it wrong at almost every point.

 

[GeneZ]

He did not represent Arminians . Provenient grace is God acting first and man responding to Gods grace. That’s not man bring the decisive factor it’s both God and man working together which is synergistic. He misrepresented the Arminian position .

The heck with Armenianism,....

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
instructing us to deny godlessness and worldly lusts and to live in a
sensible, righteous, and godly way in the present age." Titus 2:11-12
​

How men respond while under the influence of God's grace will determine the issue.

God's grace must be given to all during God's period of drawing them.
For without grace? No man would be made to be free to properly respond. Or, for that matter? Made free to wrongly respond.

When someone wrongly responds to God's drawing while under God's enabling grace?
It leaves them to be WITHOUT EXCUSE!
That is why God is Justified to condemn them!

grace and peace ...............

 

[civic]

The problem with that statement is that none of it is true. My theology is centred around God and who He is. As well, God dealing with sinful humanity. It is man's fall that God is dealing with. It is what the Bible is about. What redemption is about.

Your theology seems to revolve around one single attribute of God--- love---and if you do so apart from creation you miss the point entirely. The entire Bible is addressed to the creatures He created, revealing Himself to them, and pertains to the redemption of these creatures and all of creation along with them.

Wrath is also an attribute of God, otherwise He would not speak of it or use it. As are justice, mercy, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, eternal, self existent, triune etc.

So don't be telling me what my theology is in such a high handed manner. So far you get it wrong at almost every point.

God has no wrath in himself , no wrath between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit . No anger , vengeance or retribution which is what wrath means . God is immutable therefor there cannot be wrath from Father to Son. It’s nothing but a fallacious argument based upon human presuppositions and doctrines .

hope this helps !!!

 

[GeneZ]

The problem with that statement is that none of it is true. My theology is centred around God and who He is. As well, God dealing with sinful humanity. It is man's fall that God is dealing with. It is what the Bible is about. What redemption is about.

God is also dealing with angels!

Pathological angels who keep blaming God for their own faults.
Who keep trying to justify themselves to the other angels with rationales saying that God is unfair and unjust.

To end the "bs" the fallen angels try to push, God is using sinful man's examples to embarrass and refute them.
For when mankind fell? Man took on the nature of Satan and his angels. In essence, man became a child of Satan.
Total depravity!

That is why we see in Genesis 3:15, the Lord calling fallen man, "his seed" (referring to Satan)!

And I will put enmity​

Between you and the woman,​

And between your seed and her Seed;​

He shall bruise your head,​

And you shall bruise His heel.”​

grace and peace ..................

 

[GeneZ]

THC is very effective with Alzheimer’s patients and those with cancer. So it can be used medicinally which is probably better than most other heavy prescription drugs with terrible side effects .

And God said..

"Thou shall not smoke weed."

Yet? I fell into the same trap as Adam and the woman.

The rationale the serpent told me was that "weed will make you wise." "Will make you more creative."

Then, after discovering I had been stupid and deceived, I soon transformed into a conservative, never to look back.

 

[civic]

And God said..

"Thou shall not smoke weed."

Yet? I fell into the same trap as Adam and the woman.

The rationale the serpent told me was that "weed will make you wise." "Will make you more creative."

Then, after discovering I had been stupid and deceived, I soon transformed into a conservative, never to look back.

Agreed I was talking strictly about medicinal purposes in specific circumstances.

 

[GeneZ]

But this thread is not between or about you and me so, I won't hijack it.

Hijack it? I am trying to get it back on track...

This thread?

Why Calvinism is a bad thing​

 

[atpollard]

What was the context? Ezekiel 18:20?

Israel in national apostasy and was coming under judgment from God.
Ezekiel as a prophet was warning the people about who will die, and who will survive.

20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

.........

Yup.
Does the CROSS violate that divine principle of “Justice”?
(Depends on what you believe happened at the cross.)

 

[atpollard]

Tell us what Calvinists teach then?... Instead of saying what they do not teach? Inform us.

I find when asked, Calvinists shy away from giving concrete answers as to what it is, but rather accuse of not being understood.

A fallen nature, a corrupted will, an innate attraction to sin.

Ephesians 2:1-3 [NASB20]
And you were dead in your offenses and sins, in which you previously walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest.​

Like Paul said, we are free to follow our will down the road to “children of wrath” … until and unless “it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.” [Philippians 2:13 NASB]

 

[atpollard]

He did not represent Arminians . Provenient grace is God acting first and man responding to Gods grace. That’s not man being the decisive factor it’s both God and man working together which is synergistic. He misrepresented the Arminian position .

Prevenient Grace is Wesleyan Arminianism (born of the Methodist Church and the Holiness Movement of John Wesley) and is not how Classic Arminianism (16th to 18th Century) the responds to the issue.

 

[civic]

Prevenient Grace is Wesleyan Arminianism (born of the Methodist Church and the Holiness Movement of John Wesley) and is not how Classic Arminianism (16th to 18th Century) the responds to the issue.

From Evangelical Arminian Site

Therefore this grace is the cause of the beginning, the progress, and the completion of man’s salvation, in so much that no one could believe, or persevere in faith, without this operating grace, and consequently, that all good works must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ. Nevertheless, the manner of the operation of this grace was not irresistible.

Obviously, this point rejects the unwarranted theory of irresistible grace (cf. Isa. 1:2; 30:1,2, 3, 9, 12, 13; Jer. 2:5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 29; Ezek. 2:4, 5, 7; 3:7, 18, 20, 26, 27; 5:5,6, 7, 8, 9, 11), that regeneration must precede faith in Christ (contra John 1:12, 13; Col. 2:13), an eminently philosophical notion without a biblical context, which is, then, a mere pretext in search of a proof-text. God has decreed to save and thus regenerate by grace those who believe in Christ: faith and grace, then, precede salvation and regeneration. (John 3:15, 16, 36; 4:14; 5:24, 40; 6:47; 6:50-58; 20:31; Rom 3:21-30; 4:3-5; 4:9, 11, 13, 16; 4:20-24; 5:1, 2; 9:30-33; 10:4; 10:9-13; 1 Cor 1:21; 15:1-2; Gal 2:15-16; 3:2-9; 3:11; 3:14, 22, 24; 3:26-28; Eph 1:13; 2:8; Phil 3:9; Heb 3:6, 14; 3:18-19; 4:2-3; 6:12; 1 John 2:23-25; 5:10-13, 20)

 

[GeneZ]

Yup.
Does the CROSS violate that divine principle of “Justice”?
(Depends on what you believe happened at the cross.)

The Justice that happened on the Cross was dealing with the penalty for our personal sins
is what allowed King Saul to be judged by God to die the sin onto death, and yet tell
King Saul that he will be saved after he dies.

Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you ​

and become your enemy? The Lord has done what he predicted through me. ​

The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your ​

neighbors—to David. Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce ​

wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. The Lord will ​

deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you ​

and your sons will be with me." 1 Samuel 28:16-19a​

​

After they were killed they were told they would end up being with Samuel who was saved.

grace and peace .........

 

[civic]

Prevenient Grace is Wesleyan Arminianism (born of the Methodist Church and the Holiness Movement of John Wesley) and is not how Classic Arminianism (16th to 18th Century) the responds to the issue.

See below for the difference between Arminius and Calvin on Irresistible Grace.

Arminius vs. Calvin on Irresistible Grace - Society of Evangelical Arminians

Irresistible Grace, also known as Effectual Calling, is, according to Calvinist Wayne Grudem, "an act of God the Father, speaking through the human proclamation of the gospel, in which he summons people to himself in such a way that they respond in saving faith."1 This concept differs from what...

evangelicalarminians.org

 

[atpollard]

The Justice that happened on the Cross was dealing with the penalty for our personal sins
is what allowed King Saul to be judged by God to die the sin onto death, and yet tell
King Saul that he will be saved after he dies.

Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you ​

and become your enemy? The Lord has done what he predicted through me. ​

The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your ​

neighbors—to David. Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce ​

wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. The Lord will ​

deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you ​

and your sons will be with me." 1 Samuel 28:16-19a​

​

After they were killed they were told they would end up being with Samuel who was saved.

grace and peace .........

Ummm … King Saul was talking to a demon. Are we taking the words of demons for “God’s truth”? If so, then Satan says if we sin, we will be like God, knowing good and evil.