Why Calvinism is a bad thing.

[Arial]

How did God chose you IN Him? Why did God choose you IN Him?

What do you mean how? By doing so? Why? I don't know. He doesn't tell me. I only know I won't find the answer in me because the answer is only in God who did the choosing.

Are you so uncertain of your faith in Christ that it is a fearful thing to think that God chooses who to save? Anyone who has saving faith in the person and work of Jesus has been chosen by God for salvation. Otherwise they wouldn't believe.

 

[Arial]

And I also wanted to say the following publicly.

I hope you don't have any hard feelings towards me and I apologize if I have offended you in any way. just so you know when I was saved in 1980 I was mentored by a Dutch Reformed Pastor for several years. I really was a die hard reformed calvinist for a long time and if you think I'm misrepresenting calvinism I'm ok with you calling that out. I want everyone here to feel its ok to disagree with others and feel safe to do so. And all I ask of anyone is to try and remember the golden rule and treat others kindly. I don't think thats to much to ask of any adult here on the forum myself included. I really respect your passion with your faith.

I never had any hard feelings and have not been offended.

But your experience is not proof of anything. And when you misrepresent Calvinism and I point it out you continue to misrepresent it.

 

[Arial]

No theology is the study of God. So I’m going back to who God is within His own Being which is immutable and eternal. His nature and character doesn’t change .

That is all well and good to say, but you show that you leave out a great deal that God says about Himself. If you want to ignore it or deny it, that is fine, it really makes no difference to me. He is immutable and eternal in all His ways, not just the ones you like.

His covenant love for His covenant people is not the same as His general love for what He created. OBVIOUSLY.

 

[GeneZ]

What do you mean how? By doing so? Why? I don't know. He doesn't tell me. I only know I won't find the answer in me because the answer is only in God who did the choosing.

Are you so uncertain of your faith in Christ that it is a fearful thing to think that God chooses who to save? Anyone who has saving faith in the person and work of Jesus has been chosen by God for salvation. Otherwise they wouldn't believe.

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." Ephesians 1:4​

Don't Calvinists cite Ephesians 1:4 to make the point that God chooses us to be saved?

Note: It does not say....

"For he chose to save us before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." ​

The fact that you think he chose to save us is the cause of a problem that needs to be corrected.
It does not say he chose to save us.

grace and peace ..................

 

[Fool4Christ]

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." Ephesians 1:4

Don't Calvinists cite Ephesians 1:4 to make the point that God chooses us to be saved?

Note: It does not say....

"For he chose to save us before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight."

grace and peace ..................

So his plan of salvation started before he created the world and when we choose Jesus as our savior and abide in him, then we Are Holy and blameless and insight.

 

[Dizerner]

Who did He make them for ?

Everything he made was good correct ?

Lol, you serious?

So every substance known to man is good because God made it.

Herion. Blessed by God.

Cocaine. Given by our Maker.

Bleach. The Good Lord made it.

Poisonous nightshade—well everything was made good, correct?

Wow! What a revelation.


Then we had something called "the fall."

These are arguments I hear from unsaved people...

 

[GeneZ]

So his plan of salvation started before he created the world and when we choose Jesus as our savior and abide in him, then we Are Holy and blameless and insight.

That passage is not saying he chose to save us.

But, chose us (out from all of those whom God knows will believe) to be IN Him.

That means? God sovereignly chose for only those in the Church to be the Bride of Christ!

How can we know?

Where was Eve's body while Adam was till without his bride? She was yet IN Adam's body!

And, where are we today?

Like Eve was to Adam, we are hidden in His body and are now seated with Him in heavenly places!

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:6​

​

In the Resurrection we are to become flesh of his glorious flesh and bone of His bones! His Bride!!!!!!!!!!

Our citizenship is in heaven. We look forward to a savior that comes from there—the Lord Jesus Christ.​

He will transform our humble bodies so that they are like his glorious body, by the power that also makes ​

him able to subject all things to himself." Philippians 3:20-21​

​

Right now the bodies we find our souls in have been crucified with Christ!

​

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

And the life that I now live in my body, I live by faith, indeed, by the faithfulness ​

of God’s Son, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20​

We were chosen before the foundation of the earth to be His Bride.
............. Chosen in Him! .

grace and peace .............

​

 

[GeneZ]

Lol, you serious?

So every substance known to man is good because God made it.

Herion. Blessed by God.

Cocaine. Given by our Maker.

Bleach. The Good Lord made it.

Poisonous nightshade—well everything was made good, correct?

Wow! What a revelation.


Then we had something called "the fall."

These are arguments I hear from unsaved people...

Good plants as God originally created even turned into thorns and thistles after Adam fell.


To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from
the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field." ​

Genesis 3:17-18​

​

​

grace and peace................

 

[Dizerner]

I can dig it. Smoking the cannabis and having it go from a your lungs to your bloodstream to your brain Is probably what's not a real good idea. First of all it's addictive. I know they say it's not but it is. And it can't possibly be good for your lungs. Now what you're talking about, medical marijuana or just the chemical THC in whatever form it's being Administered is a good thing.

And what you're talking about and doing pot just as a recreational mood altering drug are way different.

I'd agree, I'd never remove something that could help a person.

But I've seen people claim "medicinal" in a very suspect way.

It seems to boil down to intention and motive.

 

[Administrator]

I'd agree, I'd never remove something that could help a person.

But I've seen people claim "medicinal" in a very suspect way.

It seems to boil down to intention and motive.

Intention and motives and the proper information. All I take is a couple of pills for high blood pressure. Whenever I see a new doctor and they look at what medications I'm taking because of my age they can't hardly believe it. I guess most of the people they see my age are on all kind of medication.

 

[Arial]

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." Ephesians 1:4​

Don't Calvinists cite Ephesians 1:4 to make the point that God chooses us to be saved?

Note: It does not say....

"For he chose to save us before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." ​

The fact that you think he chose to save us is the cause of a problem that needs to be corrected.
It does not say he chose to save us.

grace and peace ..................

What does in Him mean in those places where that is frequently used?
How are we holy and blameless in His sight?

 

[civic]

What does in Him mean in those places where that is frequently used?
How are we holy and blameless in His sight?

No one is "in Christ" until they believe.

 

[civic]

No one is In Him until they believe the gospel. See Ephesians 1 below.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer

15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

 

[Arial]

No one is "in Christ" until they believe.

I wasn't asking you. I was asking @GeneZ for his take on those things. You have a bad habit of answering for other people.

 

[Arial]

No one is In Him until they believe the gospel. See Ephesians 1 below.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer

15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Because you answered for somebody else what I asked, and though this is valuable information as is everything in the Bible, you have gone completely off topic.

 

[civic]

Because you answered for somebody else what I asked, and though this is valuable information as is everything in the Bible, you have gone completely off topic.

No I'm right on topic because I know what Calvinists teach. They teach the elect were in Christ before creation, before they were born, before faith, before conversion, before the new birth. That contradicts Ephesians 1.

hope this helps !!!

 

[GeneZ]

What does in Him mean in those places where that is frequently used?
How are we holy and blameless in His sight?

"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight." Ephesians 1:4​

We are to be made absolutely and immutably holy and blameless in His sight in the Resurrection!
We will have a body just like His own!

Not all believers are going to have a resurrection body like we shall have! Those on the new earth will have bodies of the elements
of whatever the new earth will consist of. Ours will be a like His own glorious body from Heaven.

The resurrected ones outside of the church will have great bodies. But, not one like the Lord's Himself we shall have! Do you realize how awestruck and simultanheously at peace we shall be in His presence?

​

"Who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, ​

will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." Philippians 3:21​

​

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.
Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor 13:12​

We shall be elevated to a state of being higher than all the angels!

Just like Eve was chosen IN Adam before she was revealed, so now are we as the Bride of Christ.

Being the Bride of Christ does not mean we will all be feminine gender. For God create male a female souls in His image.
It means we will all collectively be one big happy responder and helpmate to the Lord forever.

Disney world and fantasy movies will seem painfully boring and inane once we enter into the Life God has prepared for us.

"Yes! I tell you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a child will not enter it!” Mark 10:15​

In one sense we will be perpetually childlike in joy and happiness, in power, fearlessness, in total; righteousness.

There will be no more deceptive people to deal with. We will always be in a state like trusting children believing without question
everything we are told as a way of life.

And... we the church.... were Chosen In Him.

 

[Fool4Christ]

That passage is not saying he chose to save us.

But, chose us (out from all of those whom God knows will believe) to be IN Him.

That means? God sovereignly chose for only those in the Church to be the Bride of Christ!

How can we know?

Where was Eve's body while Adam was till without his bride? She was yet IN Adam's body!

And, where are we today?

Like Eve was to Adam, we are hidden in His body and are now seated with Him in heavenly places!

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:6​

​

In the Resurrection we are to become flesh of his glorious flesh and bone of His bones! His Bride!!!!!!!!!!

Our citizenship is in heaven. We look forward to a savior that comes from there—the Lord Jesus Christ.​

He will transform our humble bodies so that they are like his glorious body, by the power that also makes ​

him able to subject all things to himself." Philippians 3:20-21​

​

Right now the bodies we find our souls in have been crucified with Christ!

​

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. ​

And the life that I now live in my body, I live by faith, indeed, by the faithfulness ​

of God’s Son, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20​

We were chosen before the foundation of the earth to be His Bride.
............. Chosen in Him! .

grace and peace .............

​

Interesting, Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

 

[GeneZ]

Interesting, Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

God freely blessed me when I was given that understanding.

And, freely I give.

grace and peace ....................

 

[civic]

God freely blessed me when I was given that understanding.

And, freely I give.

grace and peace ....................

Amen