brightfame52
Active Member
False, the Abrahamic Covenant is Spiritual, supernatural above the biological, it's about Abrahams Spiritual seed born of God
What is the New Covenant?
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
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jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Abrahamic Covenant was a natural and physical covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's Hebrew seed.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis 17:7.
Nor was this covenant a "spiritual" covenant. How can land be "spiritual"? This was a covenant between a real person, not a spiritual person. The Holy SPIRIT wasn't given until 1500 years later (Acts 2.)
brightfame52
Active Member
False, it was God's Covenant, The Triune God Covenant. It's the Covenant established in Christ Gal 3 17
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
That's a entirely different Covenant from the mosaic Covenant
The covenant is clear:
Genesis 17:1-4 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, 4 As for me, behold, my covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
You do know that nations are Goyim, right? You cannot just delete the last bit of Abraham's covenant.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
That's the Hebrew covenant, NOT Gentile. There is NO COVENANT in the Old Testament between God and Gentiles.
And if no covenant, then there is no salvation.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Your interpretation of "father of many nations" as "father of Gentiles, or Goyim.
But tell me, how can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew Gentile? That's like two Russian parents birthing a Mexican child. By taking "nations": as "Goyim, or Gentile means that two Hebrew parents CAN birth a non-Hebrew child. That's what you're saying.
God reveals Abram as Hebrew:
13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Genesis 14:13.
This means Abram is from the family of Eber, from which the word "Hebrew" derives. Abram married his half-sister whose father is Abram's uncle and brother to his father. If you are taking "nations" as meaning "Gentile" (Goyim), then explain to me how two Hebrew parents can birth a non-Hebrew child?
The word translated "nations" as Gentile is in error for at the time of Abraham the Hebrew word means "massing." It is also used of Abraham and Sarah.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis 17:6–7.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Genesis 17:15–16.
Abram and Sarai are descendants of Eber. Abram married his half-sister. Sarai's father is brother to Abram's father. This means that Isaac is a Hebrew son who was born of two Hebrew parents (Abram and Sarai.) Now pay attention. The Hebrew word translated in the KJV as "nations" does not mean "Gentile."
Remember that Abram had Ishmael who was half-Hebrew and half-Egyptian (Hagar.)
Definition of "nations" in Genesis 17:6 means:
gôy [Strong's #1471] rarely (shortened) goy, go’-ee; apparently from the same root as <H1465> (gevah) (in the sense of massing)
As you can see the word does not mean "Gentile" as you say. It is merely a word that at the time meant "massing."
It is also used to Sarai, who is Hebrew (family of Eber.)
Now let me ask you: It says Abram and Sarai are related. Abram's father and Sarai's father are both brothers. This means Abram - who is Hebrew - married another Hebrew, Sarai, whom God said would be a "mother of nations."
BUT the word "nations" in the text does not mean "Gentile." It means, "massing" (as in many.)
So, tell me, according to your erroneous interpretation, how can two Hebrew parents birth a non-Hebrew son (Isaac)?
First of all, Gentiles do not come from the loins or seed of Abram. They come from Ham and Japheth, the other two sons of Noah.
Second, Abram had a son with an Egyptian named, "Hagar." This son's name was Ishmael, and Ishmael had twelve sons just like Jacob had twelve sons.
Third, then, there is Esau. Esau had two non-Hebrew wives: Judith and Bashemath.
The word translated "nations" in Genesis 17 does not mean "Gentile." According to Strong it means "massing" (as in many.)
So, let's be honest here. "Gentile" did not exist at the time of Abram. "Gentile" came into existence as the result of the Abrahamic Covenant God made with Abram and with Sarai. Goy and Goyim at the time of Abram did not mean "Gentile" until much later. But at the time of Abram before he had any children everyone was an "Adamite" for Adam was the father of everyone. Beginning in Genesis 14:13 when God identified Abram as a descendant of Eber, from which the word "Hebrew" derives.
You are wrong to define "nations" as "Gentile." The word merely means, "massing" (as in many.) Everyone was an "Adamite." It was by virtue of the covenant God made with "Abram the Hebrew" (Gen. 14:13) that God separated the peoples alive at the time through the covenant God made. But the real separation between peoples was established through circumcision which God commanded Abram to do with every male in his household - even himself.
Now, you're trying to make the Hebrew word "goy" be defined as "Gentile", but this is bad bible study. It was much later that the word "goy" came to mean "non-Hebrew", not necessarily "Gentile." But the word means "massing" (as in many.) And through Ishmael, Isaac, and Esau, the being "father of many nations" is true because of Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, and Esau. Abram was a "father of many" ("massing.") After Sarai died Abram remarried and had more children. Then these children and seed of Abram did in time become "many" ("massing.") If you are going to incorrectly define "nations" as "Gentile" you would be wrong, as I said. When we get into the New Testament Greek the word translated is "ethnos" from where we get the word "ethnic," which this word can also mean "massing" (many.)
Both Abram and Sarai were half-sister/brother for their fathers/dads were brothers. Beginning with "Eber" from which we get the word "Hebrew", the separation between obedient and disobedient peoples came to become distinct. Eber's father, Salah, was obedient to God. God commanded the Adamites to "be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth" (scatter.) And that's what "Salah" did. He most likely "crossed over" the Euphrates River and to commemorate that act of obedience named his son, "Eber", which word/name means "crossed over."
So, we have Abram and Sarai, both descendants from "Eber" and both who had a son, named Isaac. Abram's servant travelled to Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor, to find a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:10, 15). Rebekah is identified as "the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padan-aram" (Genesis 25:20). Isaac later tells his son Jacob to go to Padan-aram to take a wife from his mother's family there (Genesis 28:2). So, here we have Hebrews marrying Hebrews and none of their sons or daughters were born "non-Hebrew."
It was through Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and Esau, that Abram was true to God's identification of being a "father of many." But the covenant/promises God made to Abram was coming true. God said:
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Genesis 17:2–7.
And to Sarai, God said:
15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Genesis 17:15–16.
In verse sixteen above God tells Sarai/Sarah that "she shall be a mother of nations [and] kings of people shall be of her." "Nations" and "kings" shall be of her. God told Abram/Abraham the same thing:
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Genesis 17:6.
Through Abraham and Sarah, the Hebrew people born from both began to grow.
So, "No," the word "nations" does not mean "Gentile." It means, "massing" as in "massing" a family through intermarriage within the Hebrew family.
brightfame52
Active Member
It's the Everlasting Covenant in Christ, it's Spiritual
The fact that there is salvation disproves your claim, then.
John 3:16–17 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
Rom 10:9–13 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
1 Tim 2:3–6 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Tim 4:10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
Isa 45:22 Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, for I am God and there is none besides me.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
John 4:42 And they were saying to the woman, “No longer because of what you said do we believe, for we ourselves have heard, and we know that this one is truly the Savior of the world!”
This would be spiritual
Gal 3:14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
But are you now proclaiming all that the Jews were promised is land?
All that the gentiles are excluded from is the land of the Jews?
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