Conservative America's False doctrine (1800's dispensationalism) Support of Israel
- Thread starter Titus
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jeremiah1five
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Saul was not trying to not offend. Jews knew he was a follower of the Way and belonging to that sect of Judaism that was already under persecution as he was the one who participated in Stephen's death, the first recorded death of Christians at the hands of Jews. The people could spot a fake and his genuine obedience to the Law of Moses was clearly on display in every aspect of his life which is why the Jews respected him being a leader of that "troublesome sect."
Saul did not "at times refused to keep the Law when the Jews tried to make the Law binding." It was ALREADY BINDING on the people. Saul was a rabbi and a practicing Pharisee, and he remained rabbi and Pharisee throughout his life. You are interjecting your own opinions into the text that is simply not supported by the text. When Saul said, "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets" (Acts 24:14), was a confession of his Judaic nature as a rabbi and Pharisee. He said, "THIS I CONFESS!" If he was lying or deceiving the Jews he would have been brought up as a liar and blasphemer knowing full well all that was needed was the "testimony of two or three witness" to charge him under the Law. You are making things up and not being honest with Scripture and to me very disingenuous with the Word of God in order to trying to find some straws - any straws - to justify your antinomian, antichristian beliefs about a God who does not change and neither does His Law. Jesus' fulfillment of the Law, especially the Ceremonial Law, was our fulfillment under the Doctrine of Justification. He paid a debt He did not owe; we owed a debt we could not pay. And on His account God honored His sacrifice and applied its fulfillment to our ledger and we have been declared "NOT GUILTY!" from the God of Abraham. Jesus was right. Moses was glad to see this day arrive, as barbarous as it was for Jesus being seen by the people as a "visage so marred" one could not recognize there was a man on that cross.
That is true. The Jerusalem apostles and elders - even born-again elders of the Sanhedrin - gave no such commandment to being circumcised. Jewish males were already circumcised. It was the mixed-race Jews of the Diaspora who were uncircumcised and grew up as Gentiles that became born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL when the question came up. This was why Saul went to Jerusalem to consult with the leadership there. James, Peter - true Judaizers and circumcised males knew circumcision wasn't even an issue with true born Jewish males. But as Saul said in Galatians 3:1 "O foolish Galatians, who hate bewitched you" the word "WHO" is singular, meaning there was one man that followed Saul and Barnabas around who came from Jerusalem and ignorantly tried to teach circumcision to these Gentile-raised Jews of mixed heritage who became born-again and taught the new brethren in Christ circumcision to participate in the Abraham Covenant. It was a valid question. While it only applied to uncircumcised mixed-race Jews who became born-again the core of all born-again Jewish males was a question that had been answered eight days from their birth where the Law commanded circumcision of all males born to Hebrew parents. But what of those of mixed-race unions or circumstances of rape or slavery or concubinage which was the result of Israel's both kingdoms conquest by Assyrians and Babylonians in their history.
These Galatian quotes were addressed to Jews and Jewish Christians, NOT Gentiles, which is your habit of misinterpreting the New Covenant writings like Saul's letter to Jews and Jewish Christians in the Galatian region.
So, let's bring this to correct understanding of what Saul wrote:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Galatians 3:1–2. --- Saul is clearly writing to Jews.
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Galatians 3:6–7.
---- Saul clearly writing to the "children of Abraham" or Hebrews/Jews.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. Galatians 3:8. ---- "Heathen" meaning mixed-race Jews of the Diaspora. It doesn't say "Gentiles." Otherwise the word "ethnos" in some cases depending on the context would be the word Saul would have used. But Saul is writing to Jews in this letter.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Galatians 3:10. ---- More proof Saul is writing to Jews and mixed-race Jews for Gentiles would know NOTHING about what is written in the "BOOK OF THE LAW." Here, Saul is making comparison between salvation through "works" or "deeds" under the Law and JUSTIFICATION by faith in God to save based on the finished work of Jesus the Messiah on His cross. "FOR AS MANY AS ARE OF THE WORKS OF THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE" means every Hebrew and "children of Abraham" = the Jews.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:13–14. ---- Gentiles would not understand the Law that states 'everyone that hangeth on a tree' is cursed. This is NOT something Gentiles taught their children at school. Nor in their homes. They taught their Gentile children about Jupiter and the gods of agriculture and weather and of the sun. BUT look at what else Saul says: "THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT." That promise came by way of Joel and his prophecy to the southern kingdom tribes. The SPIRIT of God was PROMISED TO ISRAEL - more proof Saul is writing to Jews. CAN YOU PROVE TO ME JOEL PROMISED GOD'S SPIRIT TO NON-HEBREW GENTILES? Go on and state your case God promised His Spirit to Gentiles. I think you're going to ignore this challenge.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Galatians 3:18. ---- Saul speaking of the Law and the Promise which non-Hebrew Gentiles know NOTHING about.
23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:23–24. ---- NOTICE Saul is addressing JEWS. JEWS were under a "schoolmaster" and that "schoolmaster" was the Law. Gentiles were NEVER UNDER THE LAW. Say it with me, "Gentiles were NEVER under the Law." Again: "Gentiles were NEVERT UNDER THE LAW" Say it again: "GENTILES WERE NEVER UNDER THE LAW" and this means Saul is addressing JEWS WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW." But you change the meaning of Saul's letter and substitute Gentiles for Jews and this is where you are WRONG!
That's enough. These points I've brought attention to anyone can clearly see Saul's Galatian letter was written to Jews and Jewish Christians and mixed-race Jews who were born-again and lived in this Gentile town.
No,, Saul is say the "handwriting of requirements that was against us Jews" was contrary to us IF WE TRIED TO USE IT TO JUSTIFY OURSELVES BEFORE GOD." But notice what Saul does say, "nailing it to the cross." WHAT does that mean? That as Jesus died so did the Law? Is that your interpretation? Well, let's take what happened on Jesus' cross to its reasonable conclusion. Jesus died on the cross, right? So, the Law died on the cross, right? Jesus resurrected from death, right? Tell me -- WHY DO YOU keep the Law in the tomb? Why don't you resurrect the Law as Jesus was resurrected???? That's because YOUR REASONING IS FLAWED. Jesus resurrected from death and so did the Law. To the Jew natural Olive tree Israel BECAME spiritual Olve tree Israel with the giving of the SPIRIT OF PROMISE that was PROMISED TO ISRAEL - NOT Gentiles. I'm still waiting for you to show me in Joel's prophecy who spoke to the southern kingdom tribes of Judah and Benjamin where Joel promises the Spirit of Promise was promised to Gentiles. Go ahead. Prove it.
The good thing is that "you" are married to another WOMAN and NOW A MAN and there would be NO complications. The Law was nailed to Jesus' cross and Jesus was nailed to Jesus' cross. When one resurrected so did also the other resurrect together, and neither can be separated from each other. When Christ enters a person the Law of God enters a person, and the person obeys the Law from within. He's already been justified so any sin or failure to obey the Spirit of the Law in your conscience Jesus doesn't resurrect again for every sin, but unrepentant sin does have consequences. It affects your relationship with God. It doesn't affect your justification for that is a ONE-TIME thing that occurred at the cross when God resurrected the Law and Jesus at the same time for a special purpose. And that purpose is stated here by Jesus Himself:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. John 16:6–11.
There are only TWO - NOT THREE - things here that are judged: sin and righteousness.
And the prince of this world is man. Not Satan or the devil or Lucifer. Unlike many others who give Satan more glory than is due to him as a captive angel awaiting judgment. He can't be the "prince" because like Maduro, he's in jail. Maduro is no longer discharging the office as "President-Dictator" for life in Argentina, so don't cry for him, Argentina.
And look at this:
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17.
Jesus says the "world" that group of people many say "He so loved" in John 3:16 CANNOT RECEIVE THE SPIRIT. We also know that for one to be born-again the Spirit is necessary in that conversion from death to life. But Jesus says "the world cannot receive Him [the Spirit]," and if the world cannot receive the Spirit in order to be saved (born-again) then this means the "world" is not atoned for the Spirit is given in order to APPLY the salvation bought by the Son on His cross. This means non-Hebrew Gentiles are the "world" Jesus is speaking of here, the "world", that group of people many say He "so loved [the world]" in John 3:16 but doesn't pray for the "world" (John 17:9), and doesn't given them His Spirit in order to be born-again, so this means non-Hebrew Gentiles who were NEVER UNDER THE LAW NOR UNDER THE SANCTIFYING PRAYERS OF ISRAEL'S HIGH PRIEST DOESN'T EVEN PRAY FOR THEM AT A TIME WHEN JESUS ONE PRAYER WOULD CHANGE THE TRAJECTORY OF A CLASS OF PEOPLE DESTIONED FOR ETERNAL SEPARATION FROM GOD AND DYING IN THEIR UNATONED SIN.
But "the world cannot receive Him [the Spirit.]"
Imagine that.
Titus
Active Member
Yes Paul did refuse the law of Moses as a binding law.
Paul taught the old law did not save and any jew trying to demand anyone must keep the old law to be saved was in error.
Paul said the error of keeping the law of Moses to be saved seperated them(jew or gentile) from Gods grace. Trust must be in Christ not the old law that could not justify any man.
Galatians 5:4,
- you who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ you have fallen from grace
Binding the old law means you must live by that law or you will be condemned by that law.
This is what the Jews believed and Paul had to correct their understanding of what really saves.
The law could not save and binding it guaranteed separation from grace as Grace is what saves not meriting salvation through law keeping.
If someone places themselves under the law of Moses that law becomes the standard of judgment. Therefore they will be judged by the old law rather than receive Gods Grace.
Romans 2:12-13,
- for as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without law and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law
If someone places themselves under the law of Moses that law becomes their judge.
Judged by law not by Grace
Verse 13,
- for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified
Paul is not teaching people can be justified by the law of Moses.
Paul later proves they cannot. Paul is saying the law demands PERFECT obedience if it is the chosen system.
Paul says so,
Galatians 5:3,
- for I testify again to every man that is circumcised that he is a debtor to do the whole law
If you bind one part of the law then you are obligated to do all of it.
Galatians 5:4,
- Christ is become of no effect unto you, whoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace
The law of Moses brings judgment not life,
Galatians 3:10 ; Romans 3:20,
- for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse
- cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them
- by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight
He absolutely did.
You have ignored multiple examples I all ready gave.
Here again,
Paul openly admits he did not bind the law on himself when he converted to christianity.
1Corinthians 9:21,
- to them that are without law as without law... that I might gain them that are without law
Paul cannot live without law with them(gentiles) who are without law(law of Moses) to gain them over to Christ....
Paul cannot live without law and still be keeping the law!!!
Paul does not keep keep koser laws even teaching to disobey them.
Romans 14:14 ; 1Corinthians 10:25,
- I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself
- eat whatsoever is sold in the market place asking no questions for conscience sake
Paul directly violates koser law which forbids eating without inquiry.
Paul rejects sabbath keeping.
Romans 14:5; Colossians 2:16
- one man esteemeth one day above another
another esteemeth every day alike
let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind
- Let no man therefore judge you in meat(koser) or in drink(koser) or in respect to an holiday or of the moon or of the Sabbath days
If Paul kept the Mosical sabbath this statement would be impossible.
Paul declares the law of Moses is no longer binding.
Romans 7:4 ; Romans 10:4,
- ye also are become dead to the law by the body(church) of Christ
- Christ is the end of the law for righteousness
Jews by their law WERE NOT ALLOWED TO EAT WITH GENTILES.
Peter knew he could eat with gentiles because the law of Moses was no longer binding.
But Peter played the hypocrite when Jews came to eat. Peter removed himself from eating with gentiles over to eat where the jews were eating.
Did Paul tell Peter he did right to stop eating with gentiles?
No, just the oppisite. Paul rebuked Peter to his face for not eating with gentiles when jews were present.
Galatians 2:11-14,
- but when Peter was come to Antioch I withstood him to his face because he was to be blamed
- for before certain came from James he did eat with gentiles but when they(jews) were come he withdrew himself fearing them which were of the circumcision
- but when I(Paul) saw that they(Peter and Barnabas) walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel(law of Christ not Moses) I said unto Peter..
before them all, if thou being a jew livest after the manner of gentiles and not as do the jews(Paul just said Peter was not living after Jewish law proving the apostles did not keep the law of Moses)
why compellest thou the gentiles to live as the jews
This proves Paul taught against keeping the Mosical law.
Galatians 2:14,
- why compellest thou the gentiles to live as do the jews
Paul refused Torah seperation rules which is why Jews repeatedly accused him of law breaking,
Acts 21:28,
- crying out, men of Israel help this is the man(Paul)who instructs everyone everywhere against our people THE LAW, and this place and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place
Paul:
Ate non koser food
Did not require Sabbath keeping
Rejected circumcision
Lived without law to bring gentiles to Christ
Condemned Peter for not eating with gentiles when Jews were present
Declared believers in Christ dead to the law
Opposed forcing Torah on gentiles
Yet he remained faithful to Christ. To His new testament gospel.
I'm not an antinomian. I believe we are all jew and gentile under the law of Christ today, Galatians 6:2.
You can falsely accuse me of not believing in law a thousand times. And after the thousandth time it will still be false.
You need to pay attention to the word instead of telling me I'm not following it.
Gods law does change.
If you think Gods law never changes then you better be circumcised.
If you think Gods law doesnt change then you better start building an ark.
If you thi k Gods laws never change then you better not eat pork, shellfish.
If you think Gods laws never change then you better not wear different fibers interwoven.
If you think Gods law never changes then you better have a levitical priesthood.
If you think Gods laws never change then you better be sacrificing animals.
If you think Gods laws never change then you better marry multiple wives.
God does not change in nature but He does change His laws when He changes His covenants.
Hebrews 7:12,
- for the priesthood being changed there is made of necessity a change also of law
Yes, the law was nailed to the cross.
When Jesus ressurected so did the old law? Where did you hear that?
Quote the verse that says what you teach?
That's not what Paul taught.
Colossians 2:14,
- blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us..and took it out of the way, nailing it to the cross
Paul does not say:
Nailed temporarily
Nailed but later removed
Nailed but ressurected
Paul says it was AGAINST THEM so Christ TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY.
If the law ressurected Paul could not say,
Colossians 2:14-16,
- let no man judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of holiday or in the sabbath days
Paul actually said the law ended not revived.
Romans 10:4,
- Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to everyman that believeth(faith)
Did you know that when the faith came which is the new testament gospel the old law ended?
Galatians 3:23-27,
- but before faith came we were under the (law of Moses) shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed
- wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith
- but after faith is come we ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER(law of Moses)
- for ye are all children of God by FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST
after faith came the law ended!!!
Romans 10:4,
- for Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVETH(faith came)
The law today is the new covenant the new testament the gospel of Christ,
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ
1Corinthians 9:21,
- to them that are without law as without law being not with law to God but under the law of Christ that I might gain them that are without law
James 2:12,
- so speak ye and do as they shall be judged by the law of liberty
Romans 3:27,
- where is boasting then it is excluded by what law of works(law of Moses)
Nay, but by the law of Christ
How many passages do you need that says the opposite of your continuous one law to open your eyes?
How many passages do you need that says the law os dead to believe it is no longer binding?
Romans 7:4,
- wherefore my brethren ye also are become dead to the law by the body(church) of Christ...
The Greek word world in John 3:16 kosmos means:
Humanity as a whole
The world system in rebellion to God
The created order
John says Jesus died for all of mankind no distinction of ethnicity in John 3:16.
Who doesn't pray for the world in John 17:9 refer to?
The Greek word is the same but context controls meaning.
John 3:16 world is everyone.
John 17:9 world is unbelieving humanity, not ethnicity.
- I pray for them I pray not for the world(those who choose not to believe), but for them which thou given Me for they are thine
The world here is the world in rebellion to God.
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