Ok, let's look at your Post 106 and focus in on the scriptures, just as you asked. To that end, my first step is to discard everything that has nothing to do with scripture so that leaves you with your last paragraph. Let's go through that paragraph.
WIthout even reading the rest of your post, you
must start with my first paragraph which is dealing with a very important part of the the scriptures ~ the
foreknowledge of God that cause him to have an election of grace ~
both among angels and man.
I have a biblical answer which will
perfectly flow with all scriptures, which
truth does and has
no problem doing so; but so those who hold to error, which is seen in scriptures not having that perfect flow.
Truth is "
one consistent flow" of a cohesive whole from Genesis to Revelation.
I know know why you are avoiding my first paragraph ~it show the inconsistently of men holding a lie, which is (inconsistently)a hallmark of error.
We grant God knew all that ever was, is, or shall be, but we deny that God did elect to life any for anything he did foresee in them; for if God should look out of himself to anything in the creature, upon which his will may be determined to elect, were against his all sufficiency, as if he should get knowledge from things we do, implies an imperfection of knowledge, and of will, if he should see something in us before he can determine, as if God were in suspense, saying, I will choose this man if he will, I will upon foresight of fulfilling my condition absolutely choose him. To say, I will elect, if they believe, is a conditional election, and if they can do this without God, then God is not omnipotent; if they say, he will give them faith to believe, then it is all one with an absolute will, as I elect to life, and I will give these faith; for whom he predestinated, them he efficaciously calls, etc.
Your doctrine makes God
not omnipotent, pure and simple~his knowledge imperfect, as though he can see something in us before he can determine it to be in us. I see why you want to broad jump over the paragraph I just want others to see it as well. Of course your buddies in your amen corner will still amen you, which only encourages men like you to continue holding to a lie. We seek God's approval not man's.
To understand Isa 44:18, you need to understand its theme and context. Its theme is the folly of worshipping graven images. This has to do with those who create graven images and worship them. Nobody around my circles is creating graven images and falling down to worship them. Just because you picked a neighborhood of graven image worshipers to live in does not mean that everyone has done the same. You should consider moving out of that neighborhood. Seriously.
Sir, is this the best you can do? Seriously? To have such a big bark, you have a very little bite~of course it's the little dog that barks the loudest, backing up the hold time. I've seen this too many times in both the real world with literal four legged dogs and among the barking two legged dogs that Paul said beware of.
Philippians 3:2
“Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.”
To understand Isa 44:18, you need to understand its theme and context.
We agree, but your labor produced very little, if any~Let us look at Isaiah 44.
Isaiah 44:9~ They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
This is a classic passage – maybe the best – of God’s mockery of idolaters (
Is 44:9-20 Compare pagan
witnesses of idols here to
witnesses of Jehovah previous (
Is 44:8). The mockery is of more than idols or idolatry; it emphasizes
idolaters (
Ps 115:1-8). The text does not open condemning graven images but rather
the vanity of their makers.
Any such form of religion and its devotees are clearly under very great delusion. The bottom line and eventual conclusion of all idolatry is great shame for such stupidity. False religion is like wrongly dividing scripture – it shames the man (2nd
Timothy 2:15). The passage is full of shame by its content and message and indictment (
Is 44:11). Opposite shame of idolaters, worshippers of Jehovah could glory (
Is 41:16;
45:25). Whether idolaters admit the shame or not, it is true and others do (
Rom 1:22,
24,
27).
Isaiah 44:10~ Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
God here did not ask for a name of one idolater that might have graven himself a god. Rather and instead, God mocked all idolaters for stupidity by His rhetorical question. Who (or why?) would be a man foolish and vain enough to build a helpless idol? God from here forward in this long description will mock these unprofitable idols. Let us answer God’s question – only an insanely stupid and foolishly deceived man!
Isaiah 44:11~ Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.
God warned that all these craftsmen that made idols would soon be afraid and ashamed. Religion is to secure our souls from the spirit and eternal world, but idols cannot at all. Any religion that leaves a person afraid and/or ashamed is a vain and worthless faith. God used idolatry’s great inability to avoid fear and shame against it (
Isaiah 45:16). And He exalted His religion that removes both (
Isaiah 45:17;
41:13-14;
43:1,
5;
44:2).
Isaiah 44:12~ The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.
Consider … the man forming the idol is so weak he gets hungry, fails, gets thirst, faints. Consider … if the being making the god is so vulnerable to weakness, what of his god?
Isaiah 44:13~The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.
God then moved to idolatry of wood gods, not metal, to ridicule it down to eating ashes. The wooden statue here is one that is carved to look like a human head, bust, or figure. God mocked the effort by the details of the tools necessary to form this wooden god.
Isaiah 44:14~ He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it.
Idolaters make investments to learn about trees so they can specialize in wooden gods. He knows certain kinds of trees and wood will last longer and be better suited for idols. We have the same idols in our days under the names of
NFL~MLB~NBA~etc. more on this later, so it is in your neighbour sir and guess what? it's everywhere!
Isaiah 44:
15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
Our God, Creator of the universe, mocked idolaters for their other uses of god material. This fool took a tree to burn for cooking and for heat and then used the rest for a god. As we justly mock the idolater, we always know we would be one without God’s grace.
Isaiah 44:16~ He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
Our God, Creator of the universe, mocked idolaters for their other uses of god material. This fool took a tree to burn for cooking and for heat and then used the rest for a god. As we justly mock the idolater,
we always know we would be one without God’s grace.
Isaiah 44:17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
A leftover god! Meaning a god made from the leftovers of a tree or log after other uses! Our God gets into the details – the details of mocking the worshipper of a totem pole.
An Explanation for Idolaters’ Blind Insanity – Verses 18-20
Isaiah 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
Why are those in false religions without basic understanding? God rewired them to it. God does not shut the eyes and hearts of men from truth or sense when they deny Him.
Isaiah 44:19 And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
The facts here: a log was used for heat and cooking and the rest of it turned into a god.
God repeated this ridiculous situation again for emphasis and
to expose its spiritual insanity. Any man should be able to consider the facts and admit the whole this is ridiculous.
Idolaters, or any false religionists,
cannot consider or analyze their actions to see the lie.
American Indians cannot grasp that their totem poles or great spirit is nothing at all. Eastern Indians cannot grasp that bathing in the Ganges is stupid and without profit. Muslims cannot grasp they adore a meteorite and their prophet could not prophesy. Catholics cannot grasp that the dissolving cracker god in their mouths is not Jesus. Mormons cannot grasp that the peeper Joseph Smith never saw an angel of Jehovah. Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot grasp that their founder Russell was a cheat, fraud, liar. Charismatics cannot grasp that Jimmy Swaggart is a liar and a fraud and has reinvented himself to cover up his wickedness. Armenians deny some of God's attributes by their false gospel.
Isaiah 44:20~ He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?
The hearts of idolaters, and of all false religionists, are deceived into turning to vanity. Deceit is a terrible things, for you think truth a lie and a lie truth to your own ruin. There is a sensible approach of religion to seek a higher power, not a lower vanity! His soul is so deceived by sin and God that he cannot save his soul by seeing the lie. God rewires men to worship such ridiculous objects
and doctrines (
Romans 1:18-25; 2nd
Thess 2:9-12).
Romans 11 later...
