What is regeneration?

One must have a knowledge of the truth ( Gods word ) which precedes repentance which is granted by God. And faith precedes them all. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.

hope this helps !!!
 
synergy said:
Those who repent are granted repentance. Otherwise, people would be correct to say I'll wait for God's repentance when Christ exhorted them to "Repent and Believe".
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yes its placing works before faith. I'm surprised they refuse to see this since many of them say when we talk about faith its a work.
 
synergy said:
This is what I said:


You're forgetting the human side. When Jesus exhorted everyone to "Repent and Believe", were there any Calvinists that said "I'll wait for the Granting/Zapping"? No, of course not. So man does the repenting and God grants repentance.
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Absolutely.

A Calvinist will never reconcile the necessity of the Gospel and faith to their conversion. Never. They render such necessities meaningless with their false claims.
 
Rockson said:
Sure. I believe so. :)

Same towards you!


Sure. And the blood as a part of the atonement came from the knowledge from his parents. God slew an animal (a death with blood) and God gave them skins, a type of being clothed in righteousness. but my thought is it wasn't the true absolute righteousness of God in Christ but.....a promissory note for actual salvation.
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Agreed!

Rockson said:
I believe scripture tends to indicate they went to a place called Abraham's bosom. It was a place of bliss but not heaven. While the OT saints lived on earth they were considered servants of God but not sons. 1 Jn 3:2 says that NOW we are the Sons of God. They are now after the resurrection. Jesus went down to this place of paradise and led captivity captive. All OT saints ARE NOW born again in heaven. But my understanding is it wasn't until the blood of Jesus was shed that actual true righteousness was established.
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I honestly can't say that I know exactly what "Abraham's bosom" is. I don't. The traditional position doesn't "set well with me" and I don't know why. If what you say is true, then I will accept it. I believe I'm missing something that I can't put my "finger on". I'll give it some more thought and ask the Lord to help me with it. I usually avoid any meaningfulness from the teaching. I don't believe it actually present evidence contrary to my position.

Heaven has existed from the beginning. Jesus went to prepare a place. We look for a new heaven and new earth. I don't see anything that presents the premise that "sons of God" existed before Calvary from being true. Relative to the Transfiguration, we know that Moses and Elijah were able to leave whatever location they enjoyed in "spiritual bodies" to be with Christ.

Rockson said:
I'd say sure Enoch called God Lord but I wouldn't say we can define that as meaning he had the fulness in the absolute sense of salvation.
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Added.... Just thought of a good verse.....

Luk 10:23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
Luk 10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Enoch also foretold the second coming of Jesus Christ in great power and glory. I believe he knew more than most people will allow. I might have said this before but I'll repeat myself.... :)

Enoch was the seventh from Adam. Adam lived to influence Enoch. In my thoughts/mind, I see a deep relationship between Enoch and Adam. Adam knew much more than the limited narrative the surviving Scriptures record. Adam learned directly from God and lived a very long time interacting and fellowshipping with God. Can you image what you would learn from God if we lived several hundred years?

Rockson said:
I'd still not take that to mean before the resurrections righteous OT saints had the fulness of their salvation manifested. The promissory note of actual salvation I'd say was not legally allowed until the work of Christ was actually accomplished.
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As I believe we agree, forgiveness is not relationship. None of us are bound in perfection to one another (relationship) until some time in our future.

What are you thoughts on the 4 and 20 elders? 12 apostles? 12 patriarchs or maybe 12 prophets of old? Jesus spoke of how all the prophets foretold of Him. Stephen reference the work of the prophets in condemnation toward man.

I'm not saying that we don't have power that the Resurrection of Christ brought. We do.... but I believe the self same Spirit of God has long worked in the new birth throughout history. I can't tie the new birth to the necessity of physical Resurrection or physical death of Christ. I believe it came by faith. Abraham pleased God by faith. (Their faith).

Rockson said:
I wouldn't think that means however that he reaped the benefits of that until the actual resurrection, except a covering righteousness being laid up in his account. Our sins are now not merely covered but blotted and remitted. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
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Understood. However, Jesus forgave sins on earth before His death. Jesus called the women with an issue of blood "daughter". That more than just fellowship in Israel. Even King Saul mourned the rejection of God in his life. He was devastated. So was David when he commited gross sin of murder. Yet, he couldn't escape the lovingkindness of God's embrace through the Spirit of God.

I do believe the sacrificial offering of Christ established eternal forgiveness but many saints had extraordinarily meaningful relationships with Christ before His Advent. I do believe that Moses actually saw Christ in bodily form on the "mount."

Let me know your thoughts/concerns. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.
 
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Presby02 said:
You did not say you believe to be placed in Christ?

My repentance was granted or given by God like the Bible says.
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Where?

Repentance is certainly granted. Repentance is where the mind of man and the mind of God agree. It is impossible for this to happen before exercising faith.
 
synergy said:
The Calvinist Tribunal has spoken with no justification offered whatsoever.
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Still waiting for you to respond to my post #106. What's your problem? No answer? We shall see who truly uses the scriptures to justify their teachings.

But, you must come out of hiding before we can discourse our understanding. I'm willing, and pretty sure more than able from what I have read of your posts.
 
Presby02 said:
Time to play the victim?
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synergy said:
Of course everything good that we possess comes from God. Stop building strawmen. But it's up to us to appropriate those gifts in our lives. We must not stay inert, do nothing, nor wait for a Zapping.
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Sir, are you mocking the doctrine that God must first quickens us to life "before" we can see, hear, and obey? You are not mocking faithful bible believing Christians, but God's testimony of this blessed truth. That's not very wise to do, you may want to reconsider your words~but, I'm sure pride will not allow you to do so. This is a truth a truth taught by Jesus himself~so, are you mocking him? That is even more dangerous and God will not take that very lightly mocking his darling Son.

John 5:21-25~"For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."
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Care to discuss these scriptures with me?
 

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