What is regeneration?

Your post to me seems to be a copy and paste from someone else who did believe in baptismal regeneration,

If you read more of his Posts, you'll discover that all he does is "cut and paste" from other people's teachings.
Its why He comes to forums, as his Post's prove.
To post theology that he is "into" that he has studied, that is written by whatever teacher he is following (next)...... on any given day.
 
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Your post to me seems to be a copy and paste from someone else who did believe in baptismal regeneration, but your own confession said that you did not in your post to Behold.


I have no problem in copying and paste as long as you are in 100% agreement with them and that based upon thus saith the Lord. But you should carefully read what you copy and paste.
I don't believe in baptismal regeneration and proof read everything I post.

BAPTISM

I. Baptism in the Jewish life

A. Baptism was a common rite among Jews of the first and second century.

1. preparation for worship at the temple (i.e., cleansing rite)

2. the self baptism of proselytes

If someone from a Gentile background were to become a full child of Israel, he had to accomplish three tasks:

a. circumcision, if male

b. self-baptism by immersion, in the presence of three witnesses

c. sacrifice in the Temple

3. an act of purification (cf. Leviticus 15)

In sectarian groups of first century Palestine, such as the Essenes, baptism was apparently a common, repeated experience. However, to mainline Judaism, John’s baptism of repentance would have been humiliating for a natural child of Abraham to undergo a Gentile acceptance ritual.

B. Some OT precedents can be cited for ceremonial washing.

1. as a symbol of spiritual cleansing (cf. Isa. 1:16)

2. as a regular ritual performed by the priests (cf. Exodus 19:10; Leviticus 16)

It should be noted that all other baptisms in first century Jewish culture were self-administered. Only John the Baptist's call for baptism involved him as an evaluator (cf. Matt. 3:7-12) and administrator of this act of repentance (cf. Matt. 3:6).



II. Baptism in the Church

A. Theological Purposes

1. forgiveness of sin – Acts 2:38; 22:16

2. reception of Holy Spirit – Acts 2:38 (Acts 10:44-48)

3. union with Christ – Gal. 3:26-27

4. membership in church – 1 Cor. 12:13

5. symbol of a spiritual turning – 1 Pet. 3:20-21

6. symbol of a spiritual death and resurrection – Rom. 6:1-5

B. Baptism was the early church’s opportunity for a person’s public profession (or confession). It was/is not the mechanism for salvation, but the occasion of the verbal affirmation of faith (i.e., probably, "Jesus is Lord"). Remember the early church had no buildings and met in homes or often in secret places because of persecution.

C. Many commentators have asserted that 1 Peter is a baptismal sermon. Although this is possible, it is not the only option. It is true that Peter often uses baptism as a crucial act of faith (cf. Acts 2:38,41;10:47). However, it was/is not a sacramental event, but a faith event, symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection as the believer identifies with Christ’s own experience (cf. Rom. 6:7-9; Col. 2:12). The act is symbolic, not sacramental; the act is the occasion of profession, not the mechanism of salvation.

III. Baptism and Repentance in Acts 2:38

Curtis Vaughan, Acts has an interesting footnote on p. 28 related to Acts 2:38.

"The Greek word for ‘baptized’ is a third person imperative; the word for ‘repent,’ a second person imperative. This change from the more direct second person command to the less direct third person of ‘baptized’ implies that Peter’s basic primary demand is for repentance."



This follows the preaching emphasis of John the Baptist (cf. Matt. 3:2) and Jesus (cf. Matt. 4:17). Repentance seems to be a spiritual key and baptism is an outward expression of this spiritual change. The New Testament knew nothing of unbaptized believers!

To the early church baptism was the public profession of faith. It is the occasion for the public confession of faith in Christ, not the mechanism for salvation! It needs to be remembered that baptism is not mentioned in Peter’s second sermon, though repentance is (cf. Acts 3:19; Luke 24:17). Baptism was an example set by Jesus (cf. Matt. 3:13-18). Baptism was commanded by Jesus (cf. Matt. 28:19). The modern question of the necessity of baptism for salvation is not addressed in the New Testament; all believers are expected to be baptized. However, one must also guard against a sacramental mechanicalism! Salvation is a faith issue, not a right-place, right-words, right-ritual act issue!
Utley.
 
II. Baptism in the Church

A. Theological Purposes

1. forgiveness of sin – Acts 2:38; 22:16

2. reception of Holy Spirit – Acts 2:38 (Acts 10:44-48)

The "Theology" that """"water baptism is related to forgiveness of sin and receiving the Holy Spirit""" is a "doctrine (theology) of Devils".

Don't teach those, @Johnann.

And there is this.... that you cut and pasted..

""""" Salvation is a faith issue, not a right-place, right-words, right-ritual act issue! """"

So, if you would not teach water baptism as required, as a necessary part of Salvation, then there is no issue, but that is not what you teach.
 
The "Theology" that """"water baptism is related to forgiveness of sin and receiving the Holy Spirit""" is a "doctrine (theology) of Devils".

Don't teach those, @Johnann.

And there is this.... that you cut and pasted..

""""" Salvation is a faith issue, not a right-place, right-words, right-ritual act issue! """"

So, if you would not teach water baptism as required, as a necessary part of Salvation, then there is no issue, but that is not what you teach.
I can appreciate where you're coming from but I would like to get your opinion on John 3:5, especially the water portion of that verse.

(John 3:5) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
 
I can appreciate where you're coming from but I would like to get your opinion on John 3:5, especially the water portion of that verse.

(John 3:5) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Ok, good.

Jesus said this..

"YOU must be born..........= AGAIN">

Why did Jesus say..."again"? /????????????????????????????????

Because you are born once already.......
And how?
You were in your mother's womb, and you were in a sack of fluid, and that "water broke", and out you came, = born of water, born of your mother.
This is your earth birth, your first birth...

And now, to go to Heaven, .. "you must be......>BORN..........= again" by the Holy Spirit.

"AGAIN" = #2 birthday.

This is the "new birth" of your spirit as "born again"....and that is caused by God's Holy Spirit.

And....How does that 2nd BIRTH or "born......AGAIN">......happen?

A.) You give God your faith in Christ, and God takes the blood and death of JESUS on the Cross, and washes you in that "blood atonement", that is the "new covenant", and now you are "made free from sin", having become "the Righteousness of GOD.. in Christ".

And now that you are FORGIVEN all your SIN....,.. God, "who is A Spirit".... joins Himself to your Spirit, = as your "born ... again" Spiritual Birth..

And that is your 2nd Birthday.
Your first BD was by water and mother, and your 2nd BD , which is to be "born.....again".. is a Spiritual Birth, whereby The Holy Spirit of God, births you into Himself.


You become .. ."a new Creation= 'in Christ"....."One with God"......"seated in heavenly places"... Born... AGAIN.
 
Ok, good.

Jesus said this..

"YOU must be born..........= AGAIN">

Why did Jesus say..."again"? /????????????????????????????????

Because you are born once already.......
And how?
You were in your mother's womb, and you were in a sack of fluid, and that "water broke", and out you came, = born of water, born of your mother.
This is your earth birth, your first birth...

And now, to go to Heaven, .. "you must be......>BORN..........= again" by the Holy Spirit.

"AGAIN" = #2 birthday.

This is the "new birth" of your spirit as "born again"....and that is caused by God's Holy Spirit.

And....How does that 2nd BIRTH or "born......AGAIN">......happen?

A.) You give God your faith in Christ, and God takes the blood and death of JESUS on the Cross, and washes you in that "blood atonement", that is the "new covenant", and now you are "made free from sin", having become "the Righteousness of GOD.. in Christ".

And now that you are FORGIVEN all your SIN....,.. God, "who is A Spirit".... joins Himself to your Spirit, = as your "born ... again" Spiritual Birth..

And that is your 2nd Birthday.
Your first BD was by water and mother, and your 2nd BD , which is to be "born.....again".. is a Spiritual Birth, whereby The Holy Spirit of God, births you into Himself.

You become .. ."a new Creation= 'in Christ"....."One with God"......"seated in heavenly places"... Born... AGAIN.
What about Adam? Is he now to be left out because he wasn't "in a sack of fluid"? If you start making your own personal exceptions then please realize that you are going down the wrong path.
 
I can appreciate where you're coming from but I would like to get your opinion on John 3:5, especially the water portion of that verse.

(John 3:5) Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
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What about Adam? Is he now to be left out because he wasn't "in a sack of fluid"?

There was no Cross of Christ to deal with Adam's "iniquity"< which was really rebellion, as Lust/Rebellion is the heart of sin.

So, God "slew some animals", and that was their covering...... and they wore the skins.

"without the shedding of blood, there is no covering, no forgiveness, no remission, of sin".


So, NOW that Jesus has died for our sin....by shedding HIS BLOOD>.....then we have "eternal Forgiveness" .

A.) "Jesus is the ONE TIME..... ETERNAL Sacrifice.... for sin"..

Jesus died for the sin of the world......one BELIEVER at a time.

See that payment? See that blood atonement that was shed for the WORLD?

John 3:16.. "for God so loved the WORLD" = Jesus Shed His Blood for the WORLD< not just the "pre-destined"...


So that payment for the sin of the world, is certainly more then enough for each of us who are "blood bought" and "'made righteous".
 
There was no Cross of Christ to deal with Adam's "iniquity"< which was really rebellion, as Lust/Rebellion is the heart of sin.

So, God "slew some animals", and that was their covering...... and they wore the skins.

"without the shedding of blood, there is no covering, no forgiveness, no remission, of sin".


So, NOW that Jesus has died for our sin....by shedding HIS BLOOD>.....then we have "eternal Forgiveness" .
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that Adam is somehow not in need of or exempted from Christ's Atonement? Be careful as I cautioned you to not make your own personal exceptions.
 
Next--

I believe that Jesus commanded us to "Go therefore and make disciples (aorist imperative = command. Do this now! Do it effectively! Just do it!) of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that" He commanded (Mt 28:19, 20). I believe that He is with us always, even to the end of this age.

I believe that the early church practiced water baptism by submersion from passages such as Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch in which "the eunuch said "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"… and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch; and he baptized him" and then "they came up out of the water" (Acts 8:36, 37 38).

I believe that water baptism is the desire of our Lord Jesus for every believer, but that water baptism itself does not "convey grace" and that it is not necessary for salvation, for salvation is the gift of God which is entered into by grace through faith and not through human works (Ep 2:8, 9+) like baptism.

In summary I believe water baptism is a sign or an outward indication of the inner supernatural change (new birth - John 3:3+) that has already occurred in the believer’s life by grace through faith and thus serves as a public identification with Jesus Christ, and a public testimony of the change that has occurred.
I do not believe the verse teaches immersion at all

Katabaino - went down , stepped down used to denote dismounting a chariot Josephus so uses it 12, 4, 3. Homer, Herodotus,Plato, Xenophon use it to note mounting upon a vessel, a camel, a horse etc. In verse 31 Phillip stepped up (anabaino) into the chariot. so katabaino notes the stepping down from the chariot. Thus they stepped down from the chariot into the water There is no step by step journey. They dismounted and were in the water.


Does not show immersion the normal means of baptism Seeing as both went down to or into the water and then the baptism proceeded

Would agree water baptism is a sign.
 
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that Adam is somehow not in need of or exempted from Christ's Atonement?

Adam was exactly like all who were in the OT, ... some of them went to "Paradise", or "Abraham's Bosom" and not to Hell.
They didnt go to heaven.

See, when Jesus said to the Dying Thief.......that He would be with Jesus in """""Paradise"""".........

Jesus was not talking about Hell, nor was He talking about Heaven.
Be careful as I cautioned you to not make your own personal exceptions.

You dont have to concern yourself about that..
See.//
I only teach Paul's Theology. (Doctrine).
 
Thank you for that interlinear version. That confirms that John 3:5 is translated correctly into English, and that being born of water and the Spirit is an undeniable prerequisite of entering the Kingdom of God.
As it is ex hudatos kai pneumatos-correct that it is undeniable, however, I am in agreement with this and should you disagree that's fine--

and. FS93A, +Gen_1:26, Hendiadys; or, Two for One F/S 657, Two words are used (water, Spirit), but one thing is meant (Spirit).

By this figure water and spirit are joined by "and." There is no of in the Greek, supplied here by the translators. There is no article to either of the two nouns. This figure gives the meaning, "born of water, even the spirit." That only one thing is meant by the two words is clear from verses 6 and 8 (Joh_3:6; Joh_3:8), where only the Spirit (the one thing) is mentioned.

The figure may also be understood to mean "born of spiritual water," where the "spiritual water" is, by the figure Metonymy, put for the Holy Spirit Himself, as is clear from Joh_7:38-39, The reference is to the real baptism by the Holy Spirit which is the one indispensable condition of entering the kingdom of God (Rom_8:9, 1Co_12:13), not to the water of ritual baptism (Act_1:5 note).
of the. *Joh_1:13; *Joh_6:63, Mat_3:11, Mar_16:16, Rom_2:29; Rom_8:2; Rom_8:10, *1Co_2:12; *1Co_6:11, *1Jn_2:29; *1Jn_5:1; *1Jn_5:6-8.

Shalom
 
I do not believe the verse teaches immersion at all

Katabaino - went down , stepped down used to denote dismounting a chariot Josephus so uses it 12, 4, 3. Homer, Herodotus,Plato, Xenophon use it to note mounting upon a vessel, a camel, a horse etc. In verse 31 Phillip stepped up (anabaino) into the chariot. so katabaino notes the stepping down from the chariot. Thus they stepped down from the chariot into the water There is no step by step journey. They dismounted and were in the water.


Does not show immersion the normal means of baptism Seeing as both went down to or into the water and then the baptism proceeded

Would agree water baptism is a sign.
I have no problem with you disagreeing @TomL -at least we can agree to disagree as brothers in Christ Jesus.
 
"born of water, even the spirit.

What you just posted.....= This is theological "EDIT". @Johann

In fact its an insult against the Spirit of Christ to teach that Water, the city water supply, is EQUAL to the Spirit of God.

Listen, your false Gospel of "water + Works" denies the Cross of Christ and insults the Grace of God.

I invite you to turn away from the "EDIT of Mary's" Doctrine, asap.
 
Adam was exactly like all who were in the OT, ... some of them went to "Paradise", or "Abraham's Bosom" and not to Hell.
They didnt go to heaven.

See, when Jesus said to the Dying Thief.......that He would be with Jesus in """""Paradise"""".........

Jesus was not talking about Hell, nor was He talking about Heaven.
Hades is the name of the place where they went to but it's still not clear if you're saying that Adam is somehow not in need of or exempted from Christ's Atonement?
 
What you just posted.....= This is theological "dung". @Johann

In fact its an insult against the Spirit of Christ to teach that Water, the city water supply, is EQUAL to the Spirit of God.

Listen, your false Gospel of "water + Works" denies the Cross of Christ and insults the Grace of God.

I invite you to turn away from the "Cult of Mary's" Doctrine, asap.
Somebody is going to silence you and it is not going to be me. I don't mind having disagreements with @synergy or @TomL which is done in a spirit of meekness and humbleness and as brothers in Christ Jesus-you, however, is from a different cloth. Your mouth is to big and exhibit a cantankerous, vicious spirit.
 
Somebody is going to silence you

I understand that you dont like to be noted as teaching "water regeneration". 'baptismal regeneration_ = Water Cult Theology . (Cult of Mary).

So, when i told you yesterday, that you teach this Catholic Doctrine... i knew you would show up and prove it.

So, are you ready to prove it even more for the Mods and Members? @Johann .

Well, in that case, can you actually post your "water saves" water is "the Spirit of regeneration" Water Cult theology using you own words, instead of cutting and pasting over and over, the work of other writers?
,
Remember how i asked you to to that, yesterday?

Can you give it a try, as even tho i know you'll post the same "water + works" type of Theology (Catholic).. at least it'll be your own work.
 
I do not believe the verse teaches immersion at all

Katabaino - went down , stepped down used to denote dismounting a chariot Josephus so uses it 12, 4, 3. Homer, Herodotus,Plato, Xenophon use it to note mounting upon a vessel, a camel, a horse etc. In verse 31 Phillip stepped up (anabaino) into the chariot. so katabaino notes the stepping down from the chariot. Thus they stepped down from the chariot into the water There is no step by step journey. They dismounted and were in the water.


Does not show immersion the normal means of baptism Seeing as both went down to or into the water and then the baptism proceeded

Would agree water baptism is a sign.

"Baptism" to Moses is clearly a "covering". So "baptized in His death". To a Jew, a "baptismal" was a local pool of water that signified "washing from the journey".

Which is one of the reasons why they understood but hated the baptism of John in "filthy Jordan".

I don't believe in baptismal regeneration but I do believe in baptism after belief.
 
I understand that you dont like to be noted as teaching "water regeneration". 'baptismal regeneration_ = Water Cult Theology . (Cult of Mary).

So, when i told you yesterday, that you teach this Catholic Doctrine... i knew you would show up and prove it.

So, are you ready to prove it even more for the Mods and Members? @Johann .

Well, in that case, can you actually post your "water saves" water is "the Spirit of regeneration" Water Cult theology using you own words, instead of cutting and pasting over and over, the work of other writers?
,
Remember how i asked you to to that, yesterday?

Can you give it a try, as even tho i know you'll post the same "water + works" type of Theology (Catholic).. at least it'll be your own work.

The will not talk to me anymore but he is surrounded by Judaism. They see the baptism of John in the light of ritual cleaning found in the law of Moses.
 
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