What is regeneration?

What you posted makes no sense.



Adam's spirit that previously was in spiritual union with God, was separated from God, when Adam "sinned".

Jesus the 2nd Adam, came to restore all BELIEVERS back into Spiritual Union with God, as "born... again" = Spiritually.

Prove this from the Scriptures. You started with "all have sinned". Adam certainly sinned. So did Eve. However, Abel did not. Neither did Seth. Prove that Abel and Seth sinned.

.

"All have sinned", who are from Adam, and all are from Adam.

So you do understand......I don't see how you can possible prove this since Paul didn't say this. Quote the exact words that Paul said.

In fact, Paul explicitly stated that not all sinned like Adam.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

"by one man's sin", (Adam) you became a sinner.

This is all of us... we are all of the "Adamic nature" until we are born again and given (made partakers of) the divine nature.

Death entered this world through Adam's sin but your appeal to some "Adamic nature" is silly. All men are capable of sin but not all men sin. Adam was capable of sin. He proved it by sinning. Yet, Abel did not. Neither did Seth. Prove Enoch sinned?

I'll wait. You're listen to men. Not the Scriptures.

The old world that perished did so because they did not like to retain the knowledge of God. However, this was a gradual process. It was not because of some supposed "adamic nature" The Godly split from Cain.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. .

So you found a "divine nature" reference. Good. Now find the "Adamic nature" reference. Go for it.

The cult that does not understand the Fall of Adam as spiritual separation from God.

I growing tired of you reference some "cult" you think I'm a part of. Name it or stop it. We are made nigh by the blood of Jesus Christ. Now go ahead and tell me like a good Calvinist that only a few were made nigh by the blood.

If anyone is part of some "cult", it isn't me. I believe the Scriptures.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

and that is why you posted ZERO verses to try prove what you taught earlier, even tho i asked you 3 times to post the verses.
So, i appreciate your honesty.

I don't believe you can count.
 
The Roman solder stabbed Christ to make certain He was dead, is the literal reason.

This can be spiritualized..

It was a literal "flow" of water and blood that was beyond nature. Supernatural.

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and blood and water flowed out immediately.

AS you witness yourself. He was already dead. His body absent any life.



"without the shedding of BLOOD, there is no forgiveness, remission, of Sin".

Water wont help you, as sin is in your HEART, and water baptism only gets you wet on the outside.

I don't believe in baptismal regeneration but I don't fabricate nonsense to combat a false teaching. If all you ever do is battle what you think is wrong, then you're no better than the one's you combating. Paul sought God for years before he every tried to embrace false teachings.

Some advice, try to start building a doctrine from the ground up. Not from the top down.


Its interesting that all the verses you posted have nothing to do with what you are trying to prove.

I agree that to you they don't. They certainly do provide evidence.[/QUOTE]
 
Reader..

What if you are born again, and yet you die before you are water baptized...........

What if you are the dying Thief on the Cross who was saved, went with Jesus, but was never water baptized...........

What if you are on "death row", and they are walking you to the Electric Chair at 5am...., and i stop you on your way there, and ask you if you are ready to receive Christ as you Savior, and you tell me that you do now trust in Christ with all your heart.... and want to publicly confess this before they put you to death...........and you do, and then they kill you.

What if you are 88 yrs old, and you are in the Hospital, in the Oncology (Cancer) ward, and you are dying... and will be dead in the next 4 mins.
You are all by yourself, in the dark at 3am...., and you "believe on Jesus with all your heart... and accept Him into your heart by faith".

What if you are in a Communist Country that does not allow Bibles or Christians, and you are in a jail there, and you "trust in Christ with all your heart" while you are in THEIR Jail......

Now, none of those BELIEVERS can be "sprinkled" "immersed", "dunked" or otherwise water baptized.

Are they Saved, ?

Of course they are, and no water baptism was found for them.

So, Reader, if you are under the mind control of a Water Cult, that has you believing that WATER is required for SALVATiON< then i just showed you REAL LIFE CASES where this water cult theology, is proven to be a LIE.

Final answer?

Do not believe a lie., and do not teach a Lie.
I do not believe water baptism is required for salvation

I do believe it is a command which should be followed
 
I do not believe water baptism is required for salvation

I do believe it is a command which should be followed
Water baptism is not required for salvation. And it is a command that should be followed. I always look at it this way. Water baptism is an outward display of an inward conviction.


Many people argue that baptism is a necessary condition of salvation. While we consider baptism incredibly important, wefind this correlation exaggerated and unbiblical. The Apostle Paul wrote, “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lordand believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). Confess and believe. Thoseare the conditions Scripture gives for salvation.

So baptism does not save you. Still, we must not disparage baptism as if it were a peripheral ceremony. Thereis nothing magical about the water of baptism itself, but Scripture testifies that something of eternal significance happenswhen someone submits to Christ in this holy ordinance. In other words, while baptism may act as a symbol, it is not merely asymbol. Something profound happens when we go through these waters.

 
Water baptism is not required for salvation. And it is a command that should be followed. I always look at it this way. Water baptism is an outward display of an inward conviction.


Many people argue that baptism is a necessary condition of salvation. While we consider baptism incredibly important, wefind this correlation exaggerated and unbiblical. The Apostle Paul wrote, “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lordand believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). Confess and believe. Thoseare the conditions Scripture gives for salvation.

So baptism does not save you. Still, we must not disparage baptism as if it were a peripheral ceremony. Thereis nothing magical about the water of baptism itself, but Scripture testifies that something of eternal significance happenswhen someone submits to Christ in this holy ordinance. In other words, while baptism may act as a symbol, it is not merely asymbol. Something profound happens when we go through these waters.

Agreed
 
The Disciples didn't understand. But Zacharias did.

Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, (Who was told to Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee). How is this not Abraham putting on the New Man, being "Born again"? 74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies (Is their enemies not death?) might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

How is this not Zacharias understanding "And that "ye put on" the new man, which after God "is created in righteousness and true holiness."

Simeon understood.

Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. Are you teaching others that this Spirit of God is not the Helper Jesus Promised? That the Spirit on Simon is not the same Spirit of the Acts Pentecost?

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of "all people"; (Not just those born after the Acts Pentecost.) 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. (They didn't know like the Disciples didn't know) 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

I get that the Disciples didn't know, but that isn't because the knowledge wasn't given, it's because the only people who had the Oracles of God corrupted it. Israel was shown the Gospel of Christ, but they rejected it, because they didn't believe God, AKA, they had no Faith.

Anna also knew.

Luke 2: 36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; 37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


These people, the Wise men as well, knew and had Faith in the Christ before HE was even born. The Gospel message of being reborn is all through the Law and Prophets.

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

How is this not the exact same Gospel, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nice deflection I was talking about Jesus disciples , the 12.
 
Nice deflection I was talking about Jesus disciples , the 12.

So was I. Perhaps you might actually read the posts you reply to.

They, the disciples, the 12, didn't understand about the death and resurrection of the Christ, as Prophesied. But as the Scriptures I posted, and you once again ignored, clearly show, Zacharias, Simeon and Anna did understand about the death and resurrection of the Christ. It's right there in your own Bible Civic.

Stop deflecting.
 
So was I. Perhaps you might actually read the posts you reply to.

They, the disciples, the 12, didn't understand about the death and resurrection of the Christ, as Prophesied. But as the Scriptures I posted, and you once again ignored, clearly show, Zacharias, Simeon and Anna did understand about the death and resurrection of the Christ. It's right there in your own Bible Civic.

Stop deflecting.
You just proved my point , thanks !

The 12 disciples did not understand.
 
Thank you for that interlinear version. That confirms that John 3:5 is translated correctly into English, and that being born of water and the Spirit is an undeniable prerequisite of entering the Kingdom of God.
Yes, John 3:5 states "5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

This from the explanation Jesus was giving to Nicodemus.

Jesus goes on further to say 6 " That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Jesus does not embellish the water end of things other then to say " I say to you, unless one is born of water" and "That which is born of the flesh is flesh"

Jesus emphasis is on the Spirit. (Capital S for Holy Spirit) for He ignored Nicodemus asking about how he could be born again from a woman assuming that was the reference that Jesus was making when Jesus said...unless one is born of water and the Spirit.

Too many error on the assumption that you must have an immersion baptism to be born again. You do not.

If that were so God the Father, before being referenced as the Father but just as YHWH would not have said EZ 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you .........
This is not baptismal water, as an ordinance found in the Gospel, to which the Jews will submit when converted; and which is performed by water, but not by sprinkling, nor does it cleanse from sin; and is administered by men,

Baptism is not an operation of God... This sprinkling is: which is the regenerating grace of the Spirit; though it does not purify from all sin.

25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh

It is the blood of Christ that cleanses from all sin; by it men are justified from all things, and are made perfectly pure and spotless in the sight of God; they are cleansed from original sin, the pollution of their nature; from all actual sins and transgressions, which are very defiling; from sins of heart, lip, and life; even from such as are idols, set up in the heart, and served.

As to John 3:5....

Bible Ref https://www.bibleref.com/John/3/John-3-5.html makes a clear understanding better then I.

Jesus makes this comment specifically to Nicodemus, in response to his question about being "born again." There are several possible ways to interpret His comment that only those born of water and of the Spirit can enter the kingdom of God. Being born of the Spirit is clearly a reference to accepting Christ, but the aspect of water is less sure. The most reasonable interpretation is that water refers to the spiritual cleansing which accompanies repentance. This is why John the Baptist's ministry of baptism was a precursor to Christ. In other words, faith in Christ is an absolute requirement for salvation. The physical ritual of baptism is not (John 3:16, 36; Ephesians 2:1–10; Titus 3:5).
 
You just proved my point , thanks !

The 12 disciples did not understand.

But Zacharias, Simeon and Anna did. They all understood and had faith in the Christ, and were "born again", even before Jesus was born.

The Catholic religion, and her protestant daughters, Calvinists, Armenians, Wesleyans etc., teach that it wasn't possible to "Put on the New Man" until after Pentecost. But when a person actually reads and believes the Bible, Abraham, Caleb, Meshak, Zacharias, Simeon and others who the Christ knew, who HE said, "rejoiced to see MY day: and they saw it, and was glad", were born again, or as Paul teaches, they had

"put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And they were renewed in the spirit of their mind; And that they had put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The Disciples also learned, from the Same Christ to "Do the Works of Abraham" as well.
 
But Zacharias, Simeon and Anna did. They all understood and had faith in the Christ, and were "born again", even before Jesus was born.

The Catholic religion, and her protestant daughters, Calvinists, Armenians, Wesleyans etc., teach that it wasn't possible to "Put on the New Man" until after Pentecost. But when a person actually reads and believes the Bible, Abraham, Caleb, Meshak, Zacharias, Simeon and others who the Christ knew, who HE said, "rejoiced to see MY day: and they saw it, and was glad", were born again, or as Paul teaches, they had

"put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And they were renewed in the spirit of their mind; And that they had put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The Disciples also learned, from the Same Christ to "Do the Works of Abraham" as well.
Sorry we are taking about the death , burial and resurrection of Jesus. You are dodging and equivocating the disciples with the others.

Try staying on topic with the OP instead of your rabbit trails and diversions.
 
Sorry we are taking about the death , burial and resurrection of Jesus. You are dodging and equivocating the disciples with the others.

Try staying on topic with the OP instead of your rabbit trails and diversions.

Your sermon started with "No one was born again until Pentecost period". This is a direct quote from your post that I replied to. You also preached, "The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

To which I replied.

The Disciples didn't understand. But Zacharias did.

I can see why you would want to divert away from what the scriptures actually teach, when they are compared to your sermon. Calvinists do the same thing. It is important to point out these little deceptions in popular religious philosophy, as it is written, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump".
 
Your sermon started with "No one was born again until Pentecost period". This is a direct quote from your post that I replied to. You also preached, "The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

To which I replied.

The Disciples didn't understand. But Zacharias did.

I can see why you would want to divert away from what the scriptures actually teach, when they are compared to your sermon. Calvinists do the same thing. It is important to point out these little deceptions in popular religious philosophy, as it is written, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump".
No one was born again until Pentecost according to Jesus and the Apostles as demonstrated in the OP. And the disciples did not understand the gospel until then.

No one was born again until Pentecost period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

hope this helps !!!
 
No one was born again until Pentecost according to Jesus and the Apostles as demonstrated in the OP. And the disciples did not understand the gospel until then.

hope this helps !!!
Where did Jesus state no one was born again until Pentecost ? Also Jn 1:12-13 indicates that believers during Christ Ministry had been born of God
 
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