What is regeneration?

[synergy]

I don't know a thing about regeneration but I found this:


The Nature of Regeneration
Some of its important attributes are as follows.
1. Regeneration implies a “mystical” union between Christ and the elect which logically—not chronologically—precedes it and provides a basis for it.
2. Regeneration is an immediate and internal work within man. “The influence of the Spirit is distinguishable from that of the truth; from that of man upon man; and from that of any instrument or means whatever. His energy acts directly upon the human soul itself.” This means that the Spirit of God operates without using even the Word of God. Regeneration does not require faith on the part of the individual; as Shedd observes, “A dead man cannot assist in his own resurrection.”
3. Regeneration is, in itself, entirely subconscious. The one regenerated has no awareness of the work and is altogether passive. Any awareness of regeneration that may develop in one’s experience is based on a perception of its effects.
4. Regeneration is logically the first work involved in applying salvation. All other aspects of the experience of redemption grow logically from this and require it as prerequisite.
5. Regeneration is not necessarily linked to conversion, although the two typically occur simultaneously. Where regeneration is unconscious, conversion is conscious and may coincide with regeneration or follow it after some separation in time. While regeneration does not require the Word, conversion does.


Robert E. Picirilli, Grace, Faith, Free Will: Contrasting Views of Salvation: Calvinism and Arminianism

Dr. Robert Picirilli is an author, retired college professor, and historian for the Free Will Baptist denomination. He knows what he's talking about.

Belief always always preceeds regeneration, otherwise; you end up in a regenerated (alive) but unbelieving (dead in sins) state (however brief or long in time) - a living dead person in other words.

 

[Alive]

Belief always always preceeds regeneration, otherwise; you end up in a regenerated (alive) but unbelieving (dead in sins) state (however brief or long in time) - a living dead person in other words.

Yeah I had enough of being that living dead person. You think you're having the time of your life until you realize the truth.

 

[Obadiah]

Yeah I had enough of being that living dead person. You think you're having the time of your life until you realize the truth.

I know what you're saying, You run into a lot of potholes going down that wrong path.

 

[TomL]

But it can be, just not the way some are using it. It's not about whether the dead can hear. The dead can't hear. That's obvious.

It's about the power and command of Christ/God to make something happen.

It's right here in "Faith comes by hearing and hearing [comes by] the word of Christ/God".

That's the lesson from Lazarus. When Christ/God says you can hear, you can hear. Just like "let there be light" produces light.

In today's colloquialisms, that verse could be translated as, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes when Christ/God says so."

Sorry but if God did not use it in that matter what right do you have

The Lazarus narrative did not concern how one comes to faith, so using it in that manner is abusing scripture

 

[brightfame52]

What you are doing is misrepresenting me when you say the following:

I don't obviously believe that at all. You are misrepresenting me.
What I do believe is that dead Lazarus hearing and coming out of the grave by God's power is definitely a miracle. Do you agree?
Christ naturally has the power to do that. Do you agree?
Own up to the fact that you already agreed that the dead can hear Jesus and that clearly destroys any semblance of your Regeneration before Belief doctrine.

You minimize the Miracle of Lazarus as though this wasnt something extraordinary, a physically dead man, been dead for several days, was at the Voice of Christ, summoned to hearing and life physically. No Im not misrepresenting you. Jesus was demonstrating the Miracle of Resurrection, He had alluded to that Jn 11

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

For people to appeal to Jn 5:25 as denoting that the spiritually dead natural man has the ability to spiritually hear, is a fabrication of scripture, out of desperation.

 

[synergy]

Yeah I had enough of being that living dead person. You think you're having the time of your life until you realize the truth.

The Living Dead:

 

[brightfame52]

Nothing there states he causes them to hear his voice

yet another example of Calvinist eisegesis

In context it is belief which is refered to and one must believe before having life



John 5:25

And now is (και νυν ἐστιν [kai nun estin]). See 4:23 for this phrase. Not the future resurrection in verse 28, but the spiritual resurrection here and now. The dead (οἱ νεκροι [hoi nekroi]). The spiritually dead, dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1, 5; 5:14). Shall hear the voice of the Son of God (ἀκουσουσιν της φωνης του υἱου του θεου [akousousin tēs phōnēs tou huiou tou theou]). Note three genitives (φωνης [phōnēs] after ἀκουσουσιν [akousousin], υἱου [huiou] with φωνης [phōnēs], θεου [theou] with υἱου [huiou]). Note three articles (correlation of the article) and that Jesus here calls himself “the Son of God” as in 10:36; 11:4. Shall live (ζησουσιν [zēsousin]). Future active indicative, shall come to life spiritually.


A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 5:25.


the dead—the spiritually dead, as is clear from Jn 5:28. Here He rises from the calmer phrase “hearing his word” (Jn 5:24), to the grander expression, “hearing the voice of the Son of God,” to signify that as it finds men in a dead condition, so it carries with it a resurrection-power.

shall live—in the sense of Jn 5:24.


Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 136.

John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

4. ἀ. τινός listen to someone, follow someone (Hom.+) ἀκούετε αὐτοῦ Mt 17:5; Lk 9:35; Ac 3:22 (all three Dt 18:15); cf. Mt 18:15; Lk 16:29, 31; J 10:8; Ac 4:19. W. acc. J 8:47.—Abs. obey, listen αὐτοὶ καὶ ἀκούσονται Ac 28:28; cf. Mt 18:16; J 5:25b; agree 9:27a.

the hearing of faith must proceed being made alive

You cant see it

 

[civic]

The Living Dead:

Yep corpses , zombies , the living dead

 

[civic]

You cant see it

Yes since zombies don’t exist . We don’t see dead people, that’s your theology with corpses.

 

[synergy]

You minimize the Miracle of Lazarus as though this wasnt something extraordinary, a physically dead man, been dead for several days, was at the Voice of Christ, summoned to hearing and life physically. No Im not misrepresenting you. Jesus was demonstrating the Miracle of Resurrection, He had alluded to that Jn 11

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

For people to appeal to Jn 5:25 as denoting that the spiritually dead natural man has the ability to spiritually hear, is a fabrication of scripture, out of desperation.

I'm not minimizing anything. I told you multiple times that Lazarus hearing and coming out of the grave by God's power is definitely a profound miracle.

Why don't you listen to what I actually say ???

Could it be because you're in the Calvinist Regenerated (alive) but unbelieving (dead in sins) state that all Calvinists promote. Calvinism's Living Dead state.

 

[TomL]

You cant see it

Again it is not there

Nothing there states he causes them to hear his voice

yet another example of Calvinist eisegesis

In context it is belief which is refered to and one must believe before having life



John 5:25

And now is (και νυν ἐστιν [kai nun estin]). See 4:23 for this phrase. Not the future resurrection in verse 28, but the spiritual resurrection here and now. The dead (οἱ νεκροι [hoi nekroi]). The spiritually dead, dead in trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1, 5; 5:14). Shall hear the voice of the Son of God (ἀκουσουσιν της φωνης του υἱου του θεου [akousousin tēs phōnēs tou huiou tou theou]). Note three genitives (φωνης [phōnēs] after ἀκουσουσιν [akousousin], υἱου [huiou] with φωνης [phōnēs], θεου [theou] with υἱου [huiou]). Note three articles (correlation of the article) and that Jesus here calls himself “the Son of God” as in 10:36; 11:4. Shall live (ζησουσιν [zēsousin]). Future active indicative, shall come to life spiritually.


A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 5:25.


the dead—the spiritually dead, as is clear from Jn 5:28. Here He rises from the calmer phrase “hearing his word” (Jn 5:24), to the grander expression, “hearing the voice of the Son of God,” to signify that as it finds men in a dead condition, so it carries with it a resurrection-power.

shall live—in the sense of Jn 5:24.


Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 136.

John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

4. ἀ. τινός listen to someone, follow someone (Hom.+) ἀκούετε αὐτοῦ Mt 17:5; Lk 9:35; Ac 3:22 (all three Dt 18:15); cf. Mt 18:15; Lk 16:29, 31; J 10:8; Ac 4:19. W. acc. J 8:47.—Abs. obey, listen αὐτοὶ καὶ ἀκούσονται Ac 28:28; cf. Mt 18:16; J 5:25b; agree 9:27a.

the hearing of faith must proceed being made alive

 

[Kenny]

Regeneration is like a Remodel. The “old man” is renovated into the “new man.”

Is the sinner dead? Regeneration is a new life. Is holiness non-existent in him? Regeneration is a new creation. Is he born in sin? Regeneration is a new birth.

Regeneration is where it's at. I think regeneration makes sanctification possible.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm not minimizing anything. I told you multiple times that Lazarus hearing and coming out of the grave by God's power is definitely a profound miracle.

Why don't you listen to what I actually say ???

Could it be because you're in the Calvinist Regenerated (alive) but unbelieving (dead in sins) state that all Calvinists promote. Calvinism's Living Dead state.

Seems like it me. Talking about everything God does is a miracle, as though raising fol;k from the dead, God does everyday all the time like He makes the grass to grow.

 

[Alive]

Seems like it me. Talking about everything God does is a miracle, as though raising fol;k from the dead, God does everyday all the time like He makes the grass to grow.

I hope you're not smoking it

 

[Kenny]

I hope you're not smoking it

You're thinking of the “carnal man” his human nature viewed as ruled and dominated by sensual appetites and fleshly desires—as energized by those impulses which have close association with the bodily affections.

 

[synergy]

You're thinking of the “carnal man” his human nature viewed as ruled and dominated by sensual appetites and fleshly desires—as energized by those impulses which have close association with the bodily affections.

It's Calvinism that promotes Regeneration before Belief. So I'm referring to the point when a Calvinist is Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead state. Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.

 

[brightfame52]

I hope you're not smoking it

Scoffing

 

[Alive]

Scoffing

Here's where you posted:

Seems like it me. Talking about everything God does is a miracle, as though raising fol;k from the dead, God does everyday all the time like He makes the grass to grow

You can write that post and then be concerned about anyone "scoffing" at it?

 

[Alive]

It's Calvinism that promotes Regeneration before Belief. So I'm referring to the point when a Calvinist is Regenerated (alive) but not yet a believer (dead in sins). That's Calvinism's Living Dead state. Every Calvinist Congregation at night could be deemed the Night of the Living Dead.

How could regeneration Possibly happen before Belief? How can an effect be logically prior to its cause? That makes absolutely no sense. It goes against cause and effect if Calvinists believe faith cannot be prior to regeneration because faith always results from regeneration. They're putting the cart in front of the horse.

 

[synergy]

How could regeneration Possibly happen before Belief? How can an effect be logically prior to its cause? That makes absolutely no sense. It goes against cause and effect if Calvinists believe faith cannot be prior to regeneration because faith always results from regeneration. They're putting the cart in front of the horse.

Exactly! It warps the mind to think like a Calvinist.

Could it be because he is in the Calvinist Regenerated (alive) but unbelieving (dead in sins) state that his mind thinks that way? Calvinism's Living Dead state that they themselves promote as possible.