What is regeneration?
- Thread starter civic
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Later, I'm finished for today.
brightfame52
Well-known member
No its not. Dead cant hear. Next time you go to a funeral, speak to the dead one and see if he hears you. He may be alive in another atmosphere, but not physically
brightfame52
Well-known member
Okay, Im surprised, but thats another subject.
The Bible says that men are Mortal, not Immortal. It says Eternal Life is given as a gift by God "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality".
The deceiver, as it did to Eve, has deceived "many" by convincing them God is a Liar, and that those who "live in Iniquity" "Thou shall surely not die".
They promote the insidious Lie that God raises them from the dead in the final Judgment, judges them not worthy of eternal life, then Grants them immortality so they are tortured with satan who deceived them, forever. This was a popular religious philosophy started with the Catholic religion to scare people into giving them their money. It's a great marketing strategy and has created a lot of wealth for the "many" religious sects and businesses in the world God placed me in.
While I have no doubt God will allow those who are cast into a lake of fire, to see what they gave up, and what they traded to preserve and defend their precious pride and tradition, for a life that was nothing but a vaper, here today and gone tomorrow. Surely when the People see how Merciful God was, and long suffering that they would turn to Him and be healed, and how often He pleaded with them to "Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Over and Over the Rock of Israel pleaded with them.
Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
So no doubt there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, and like those Christians in Matt. 7:22, "Wait a minute Jesus, don't you know who we are? We built massive shrines of wood and stone, and images of God in the likeness of random handsome men, all in your Name?
But the Jesus "of the Bible says, "You shall surely Perish", because I don't even know you.
He doesn't say, I'm mean and petty, and I'm going to grant you immortality so you can be tortured with those who tricked you for eternity.
So yes, they will be destroyed with everlasting destruction. That is, a destruction from which there is no return.
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord". Where is there a place in existence, that God cannot see?
Rom. 6: 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Don't fall for this popular deception. A little Leaven leavens the whole lump.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Regeneration is the product of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. He is the first resurrection of those He died and rose again for Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
They are made partakers of regeneration through His resurrection 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
He is the First resurrection from the dead Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
And all for whom He died and rose were in union with Him when these things occured.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
They are made partakers of regeneration through His resurrection 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
He is the First resurrection from the dead Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
And all for whom He died and rose were in union with Him when these things occured.
brightfame52
Well-known member
So you believe the same I take it. Lets not flood this thread with this.
According to the children of the devil, who taught for doctrines the commandments of men. But I posted what God's Commandments actually said about the non-Jews, and posted the Prophets who taught the same. It is a wicked teaching against God's to accuse HIM of being a respecter of persons, a God who judged men according to the DNA they were born with. I pointed out who was Judging the Gentiles as without hope and without God. Is God circumcised with a circumcision made with men's hands?
I posted God's Own Words. You are in agreement with the Pharisees judgment against Gentiles.
What if the Scriptures are right, and you have been led astray by the "Many" deceivers who come in Christ's Name that Jesus warned you about?
Luke 4: 25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; 26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. 27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
I advocate Trusting God's Word, not the Pharisees, or the "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord today. God doesn't judge according to the DNA a man is born with, God is a Just God "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
I believe all that is written in the Holy Scriptures. Not ancient catholic tradition adopted by her protestant daughters. You can read the Scriptures for yourself. Eve had the same choice, either believe in God's Word, or the "other voice" in the garden, who quotes some of God's Word to deceive. If you can't accept God's Word regarding who lives and who dies, how can you possibly understand re-generation?
Um these were God's words as stated by Paul
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
You deny scripture
John 5:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear
Ok but these seem decisive
the verses are so plain only those who do not wish to understand could fail to do so
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:57 (KJV 1900) — 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
They certainly do if you understand regeneration in the impartation of new life
Although the word regeneration is used only twice in the Bible (Titus 3:5, where it refers to the new birth, and Mt 19:28 where it refers to the millennial kingdom), the concept of being born again is found in other passages, notably John 3. Technically, it is God’s act of begetting eternal life in the one who believes in Christ.
A survey of bible doctrine
(6) spiritual or eternal life, a state of regeneration or renewal in holiness and fellowship with God (John 3:15–16, 36; 5:24; 6:47); (7) the life that is in Christ and God—divine life itself (John 1:4; 1 John 1:1–2; 5:11).[2]
Evangelical dictionary of theology
c) Eternal life, which begins not after death, but immediately upon the regeneration of the sinner, as all life has its beginning in birth. John 3:14, 15, 1 John 4:9.[3]
An aid to the Heidelberg Cathecism
Regeneration
It is the act of God whereby He renews the spiritual condition of a sinner. It is a spiritual change brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit so that the person then possesses new life–eternal life
CARM
Regeneration is the divine action by which God renews the fallen creation so that it reflects his character.
For human beings, regeneration is the answer to the corruption of moral character caused by sin. It is essential for participation in the kingdom of God (John 3:3). At conversion, God grants the believer new life and a new identity in Christ. This event is so powerful that John refers to it as a new birth, a birth “from above” (John 3:3), while Paul refers to it as a “new creation” (2 Cor 5:17). In either case, the change is brought about by the Holy Spirit, who comes to indwell the believer. Those born of the Spirit receive not an extension of mortal life but eternal life, a life which has the quality of God’s own. Lexham survey of theology
Yes, but You are not reading them. "Wherefore remember, that ye ( you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins) being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision
Who called Gentiles (who the Christ hath quickened,) "Uncircumcision"? God? NO, I posted to you God's Words regarding Gentiles who turn to God, however you refused to even acknowledge them. But Paul isn't saying the Gentiles were Called "Uncircumcision" by God. Look at your own Bible and see who Paul says called those Gentiles "Uncircumcision"? It's right there in your own Bible. The Gentiles Paul is speaking to, were called the Uncircumcision "by that" which is called "the Circumcision" in the flesh made by hands"
So Tom, who is called the "Circumcision" in the Flesh, made with Hands? Are you really going to promote that Paul is talking here about God? In your religion, is GOD called the "Circumcision" in the flesh made by hands?
Hey, I was taught just as you were by the religions of this world for years. The Jesus of the Bible warns about this very thing. Can you show me an example of even ONE person, Jew or Gentile, who turned to God anytime in the entire Law and Prophets, or the New Testament, that God rejected because of the DNA he was born with? But what does God say about the Pharisees and Jews who had corrupted the Priesthood?
Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
And what does Jesus say about the "Circumcision, in the flesh made with hands"?
Mark 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
So Tom, here was God said about Gentiles in the Flesh, who turned to Him.
Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
But what does the "Circumcision" in the flesh made with hands teach about the same Gentile who turned to God? "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
Jesus exposed these Frauds, and tore down the wall of Separation they had created. It's right there in your own Bible.
You are still ignoring what was stated
Ephesians 2:11–12 (NASB 2020) — 11 Therefore remember that previously you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
previous to faith these people were
at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the people of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
it is only in Christ they were brought near
Greetings TomL:
I'm not going to continuously answer the same questions~you very well may mean well, that's for God to judge, not me, but I'm finished riding the same roller coaster rides with you. The ones above have been addressed. RB
What Utter nonsense
You imported an idea foreign to the text
John 20:31~"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God"~
There was nothing about having knowledge of life in the text just as there was no reference to any unconditionally elect
You have tried guilt by association tactics
you questioned my motives
but you have not answered the verse in a manner consistent to what it states
John 20:31 (NASB 2020) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.
Where first we see John posits that by reading one might believe
and then by believing one might have life
It is have life not have knowledge of life
faith precedes the having of life
both things contrary to your theology
you twist the verse to speak about knowledge of life which is nowhere in the text
these verses are so plain only those who do not wish to understand could fail to do so
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
There can be no life apart from Christ
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Those not united with Christ through faith shall not see life
Union with Christ through faith must precede the reception of life
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Again there is no possibility of life apart from faith in Christ
John 6:57 (KJV 1900) — 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
To claim that regeneration (the impartation of life) precedes faith, is to claim that God can bestow life apart from the blood of His Son. To claim regeneration precedes faith is to claim Life may be imparted apart from Christ, It is to claim that God gives life prior to the removal of sin. Since it is sin that causes spiritual death, our sin must first be removed through Christ’s blood before God can give us life. As long as sin remains, death remains. If God can bestow life (regenerate) apart from the application of Christ’s blood, then the atonement becomes less than the necessary means by which a holy God reconciles sinners to himself (Rom. 5:10; Col. 1:21-23). It is a christologically deficient concept
Sorry, you have not addressed the verses in a manner consistent with what the texts actually state
I'll open up a new thread shortly about how the Early Christian Church viewed the Lord's Supper - that it was truly spiritual and not just a legal instruction/enactment.
Now back to Rom 10:8-13....
Your presuppositions are blinding you to the truth. There is no other way to be "in Christ" than to believe "in Christ". Furthermore, only if you believe "in Christ" can you be sealed with the Holy Spirit. Read Eph 1:13.
Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also believing, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
civic
Well-known member
Tom~scriptures truths are not contained in a vacuum~we must ( I'm sure you know this, but you failed to practice this truth) consider all scriptures concerning man's state as he is by nature~born flesh from Adam~which flesh is at enmity against God, and he must first be born of the Spirit of God, before he is no longer at enmity against God, but has a new man within him that has power to hear, see, and understand God's word, but not until then.
Man, according to Jesus Christ, (not me, or any other man) said~cannot see truths contained in and preached by those men who are part of the kingdom of God on the earth, except that man be born again. John 3:1-8.
Consider:
Thomas seen and then believed, we read and believe, because that's God means of us believing since Jesus left this world~but by nature is is impossible for any to believe without God giving them to power to do so.
He does give it to his elect on the behalf of Jesus being their surety before him. Hear the word of God:
Do you agree with what Paul is saying here?
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