brightfame52
Well-known member
You know that poster will not see this, but its a good exposition, I agree with it from what I read.
What is regeneration?
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Not one of your references state any such thing
Gal 5:22 references the fruit of the Spirit which is given to those who believe
Regarding Rom 8:14, 15 one must first believe before receiving the Spirit
Galatians 3:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Rom 12:3 in context speaks of spiritual gifts as does 12:3
1pe 1:21references the gentiles who did not know God but learned of him threough the gospel of Christ
2Pe 1:1 Is a greeting to those who obtained the same faith as did the Jews or apostles
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You do know the narrative about Lazarus is never employed to illustrate salvation
brightfame52
Well-known member
Says who ?
The bible
You have a major problem, one must first hear the voice of God before they can live
regeneration is the impartation of life
You are teaching one must first be made alive before he can be made alive
Hearing here is the hearing of faith
it is the hearing of faith which causes one to be made alive by God
John 5:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Hearing which is not regeneration precedes life which is accomplished by regeneration
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:57 (KJV 1900) — 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
and once again the Lazarus narrative is not employed to illustrate salvation in scripture
Of course, He was killed and buried in a cave. How is atonement possible by the Lord's Christ, if HE isn't raised from the dead?
1 Cor. 15: 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
My point is that it's HIS Life that we are saved by, as it is written, and His Life that gave His death value.
It is a low blow to accuse me of only considering God's Words that I prefer. First, it's not true, and you should know better given my posts.
John 10: 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
I will ask you a question here since you are accusing me of deception and bias. Hopefully you will answer honestly, and not as others who avoid the answer for fear of being corrected by scriptures in front of other men.
" Before the Christ, the Rock of Israel became a man in the person of Jesus, was HE immortal?"
And when HE became a man, did HE not Lay down His Immortality, to become Mortal like unto His Brethren?
So if you say NO!, Jesus never Laid Down His Immortality, but kept His Immortality even as a man, then how did HE Lay down His Life? If HE didn't Lay down His "immortality" then the whole "died and buried" thing was just a scam, Hollywood. And if you say Yes, He became mortal Flesh and Blood, then how did HE receive the Power to Risk, or lay down His Immortality?
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
For me, I believe Jesus Laid down His Immortality for me, to show me in the way that I should go, and how to walk as a mortal man, perfect before God His Father in Righteousness and True Holiness. He even Commanded, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." He wasn't a cheater, HE wasn't someone who would inspire Scriptures which teach mortals to "Walk even as He Walked", if it impossible for mortals to do so. As a man, HE knew HE would die at some point, but had Faith in His Father, as it is written;
Heb. 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
If HE was Immortal, then there is no fear of death, because by definition, an immortal cannot die.
He knew His Life would get cut short, because of the Prophesies regarding Him, and HE shared them with His apostles, that I also posted, but no one bothered to even acknowledge. So He would have known, even before HE Laid down His Immortality, that HE would be killed.
Is. 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Matt. 16: 21: From that time forth began "Jesus" to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mark 9: For "he taught" his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and "they shall kill him"; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
I get my understanding in this matter, not because I cherry pick Scriptures, as you accuse me, but because I believe "ALL" that is written about Him.
Acts 2: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom "ye have crucified", both Lord and Christ.
Acts 3: 14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And "killed" the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the "betrayers and murderers":
1 Thess. 2: 14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15 Who both "killed" the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
So you might disagree with my understanding that the Jesus of the Bible was killed, but it's not because I only consider the Scriptures "I prefer" and ignore the rest. Rather, it's because I believe ALL that is written about Him, regardless of popular religious philosophies of this world's religions which exist in the World God placed me in.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Where
I can find no evidence that God's Word, or Laws rendered anyone who turned to Him as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
I find the opposite all over the Law and Prophets.
Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
In this verse you have posted, those Gentiles who had turned to God, were called the "Uncircumcision" by that which is called "the Circumcision" in the flesh made by hands". This would be the Pharisees, uncircumcised of heart, who taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and not God, Yes?
So then, it wasn't the commandments contained in ordinances of God that created the Partition that was against Paul and these Gentiles that turned to God, it was the commandments contained in ordinances of those who were called "The Circumcision" that Jesus exposed.
Yes?
brightfame52
Well-known member
One must be living to hear.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
There is no Resurrection without death. The surety of the Atonement is written in the endless life of our Great High Priest. However, we should never discount anything that Christ did to focus upon a single aspect of the Atonement. They are all important and relative.
I apologize for offending you with my response. While there is a rank among the Scriptures, there is never a disparity in the value of anything God does.
What do I have to fear? It is Christ that judges me.
He alone hath immortality dwelling in the light. Immortality is Eternal. Jesus appealed to His preexisting immortality and Glory with the Father before the world was.
Joh 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
Jesus spoke of His death GLORIFYING The Father.
Paul spoke of His Eternal Immortality.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
No. He did not lay down His Immortality. His body died. The Divine Person of Jesus Christ only tasted death. He never ceased in Life. Never. The life of the flesh is in the Blood. That blood emptied from His body and His body died.
His body was laid in a grave. He Immortality reanimated His body and He arose from the grave.
There never was an issue of faith with Christ. He had Divine Union with the Father throughout His Advent. It never ceased with Him.
Just show me one single verse that says Jesus had faith. Just one. Jesus JUDGED faith among men. He Himself was never so judged. Prove it.
The Greek source you're referencing here as "fear" (poor translation) is very unusual and is more properly translated "reverence". Not fear.
I'm going to stop here. I don't have time to endless through each verse you're improperly referencing.
Dead men are bound by death! No will to live in dead men!
Sinners are bound by much more than graveclothes'~they are bound by sin/lusts and Satan, taken captive by him ~ they are his willing servants.
So much willing, that they will not and can not come to Christ, (John 5:40; Romans 8:7,8; etc.) they love their sins more than anything else.
TomL~you quoting scriptures without giving their senses means about as much as any Jehovah Witnesses doing the same. You actually are doing nothing more than they do, maybe even less.
John 20:31~"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God"~These words by John does not even hint that faith comes before quickening, or being born again, you are reading that into these words, because of your strong desire to have a part in your salvation from sin and condemnation.
God has given the scriptures to us, so that we would believe and have a understanding of the great salvation believers have, and how we came to possess this salvation, etc. God could have chosen many different ways to convey understanding to his elect, but has chosen his written word.
"that believing ye might have life through his name"~That believing, we might have life, or, the sense is.....we might have the knowledge of the life we have through his name, certainly not through our faith, then it would no longer be through Christ, and on his behalf.
John 3:36~"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God"
TomL~This scripture does not support what you trying to get it to say~This scripture is not presenting certain conditions in order to receive everlasting life, but this is one of many of John's scriptures making a "declaration" of a biblical truth~a person that believes, hath everlasting life, one that doesn't believe shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on such person. This scripture and others similar to it, are not that difficult to see and understand, if one's doctrine seeks to exalt Christ above man's works in salvation from sin and condemnation.
John 6:53~"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. TomL, are you just throwing out scriptures to make others think you are defending the scriptures, for it certainly is beginning to seem that way. No pun intended.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you~Again Jesus invoked the double verily to add solemnity to His following words.
Jesus has been provoked to respond in harder phraseology by their murmuring.
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man~To eat the flesh of Christ is not cannibalism, transubstantiation, or communion. Any literal interpretation or application misses the Lord’s metaphor for faith~which I'm sure you would agree. It is not different than the eating of Him as bread that had been oft repeated.
And drink his blood~again, It is not different than drinking of Him as bread that had been stated (6:35). Faith in Christ Jesus must focus on His death, burial, and resurrection for us.
Ye have no life in you~There is no evidence, and there can be no claim, of eternal life, without Christ. Disinterest, denial, or rejection of Jesus Christ is proof a person is not saved. John has already taught that lack of faith leaves a man condemned (3:18,36).
Such scriptures are to be applied to evidences of salvation not conditions to do in order to receive God's salvation. Faith without works is dead faith.
Nonsensical? The lake of fire is the second death, meaning eternally perish! They will cease to be!
civic
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
Red you believe that ? That the second death is just to cease to exist without eternal torment ? Yes or no.
Laughable guilt by association tactic
the verses are so plain only those who do not wish to understand could fail to do so
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:57 (KJV 1900) — 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
They certainly do if you understand regeneration in the impartation of new life
Although the word regeneration is used only twice in the Bible (Titus 3:5, where it refers to the new birth, and Mt 19:28 where it refers to the millennial kingdom), the concept of being born again is found in other passages, notably John 3. Technically, it is God’s act of begetting eternal life in the one who believes in Christ.
A survey of bible doctrine
(6) spiritual or eternal life, a state of regeneration or renewal in holiness and fellowship with God (John 3:15–16, 36; 5:24; 6:47); (7) the life that is in Christ and God—divine life itself (John 1:4; 1 John 1:1–2; 5:11).[2]
Evangelical dictionary of theology
c) Eternal life, which begins not after death, but immediately upon the regeneration of the sinner, as all life has its beginning in birth. John 3:14, 15, 1 John 4:9.[3]
An aid to the Heidelberg Cathecism
Regeneration
It is the act of God whereby He renews the spiritual condition of a sinner. It is a spiritual change brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit so that the person then possesses new life–eternal life
CARM
Regeneration is the divine action by which God renews the fallen creation so that it reflects his character.
For human beings, regeneration is the answer to the corruption of moral character caused by sin. It is essential for participation in the kingdom of God (John 3:3). At conversion, God grants the believer new life and a new identity in Christ. This event is so powerful that John refers to it as a new birth, a birth “from above” (John 3:3), while Paul refers to it as a “new creation” (2 Cor 5:17). In either case, the change is brought about by the Holy Spirit, who comes to indwell the believer. Those born of the Spirit receive not an extension of mortal life but eternal life, a life which has the quality of God’s own. Lexham survey of theology
No sorry but you are adding to the scripture it does not say so you will have knowledge of the life but that you might have life
That is rather bold twist of the scripture to avoid the obvious
fact is without faith in Christ you have no life
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
You are in denial
If you do not believe in the son yoiu have no life in you
Your theology hold God gives lifeso you can believe
scripture states the opposite
Newsflash if you do not have faith in Christ there is no life in you
No life - regeneration is the impartation of life
you cannot have it without faith in Christ
sorry that will not work
Without faith in Christ one does not have life
Your theology is contrary to scripture and imparts life without faith
Contrary to scripture
John 5:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Before being united with Christ the gentiles were
Ephesians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
that was the general condition of gentiles according to scripture
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