praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yeah yeah yeah. Over and over again. You're not like all those other sinners......
Thank God for ME.... Calvinism is always about ME
What is regeneration?
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Yeah yeah yeah. Over and over again. You're not like all those other sinners......
Thank God for ME.... Calvinism is always about ME
Romans 10:5~ For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law.
In contrast to God making the elect righteousness by Jesus Christ, Moses put the burden on them. Moses was no friend of sinners, for his legalist means of justification left honest sinners hopeless. The issue here is justification – how can a sinner stand before a holy and just God and be accepted.Righteousness acceptable to God to declare a sinner justified required continual, perfect obedience.That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
The quotation is from Leviticus 18:5, “Which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.” Nehemiah confirmed the words to Israel, “Which if a man do, he shall live in them” (Nehemiah 9:29). Ezekiel confirmed these words, “Which if a man do, he shall even live in them” (Ezekiel 20:11,13). Jesus said the same to a man, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). Paul confirmed the same elsewhere, “The man that doeth them shall live in them” (Galatians 3:12). Justification under Moses’ Law was do and live, depending on the sinner’s ability for perfection. It was based on the sinner’s performance – your performance – to be righteous before God. If you did all Moses’ Law required, then you would be justified before God and go to heaven. If you did not keep his Law perfectly, then you would be condemned by God to the lake of fire. Moses’ Law was hopeless; no man could keep its terms, and God intended it so (Galatians 3:10,21-22). If you kept the whole law, guilt in one point brought the law’s entire condemnation (James 2:10). Perfect obedience was the necessary requirement for eternal life, but no man could ever do it. Moses’ Law had never been intended to give life, but rather to drive to Christ (Gal 3:21-29). Justification through Jesus Christ is free by His redemption, obtaining perfection as a result of it. It is based on Jesus Christ’s performance, who fully finished His work and declared it done! The doctrine of representation is the plainest lesson of legal justification – by One (Romans 5:15-19)! But even before Jesus died, God viewed the elect in Christ for eternal justification (Ephesians 1:3-6). Paul will summarize the gospel, which is infinitely easier, by using Moses’ words (Deut. 30:11-14).Romans 10:6~ But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
But the righteousness which is of faith.
The inspired disjunctive but draws a contrast between the gospel of grace and Moses’ Law (10:5). Paul drew a stark contrast between Moses’ Law and the gospel of grace as he did all along.Paul is about to declare a summary of the radical difference of salvation by grace or by Law.
It is called the righteousness of faith, for faith is all that is initially required of us to claim it. Faith is the system God has chosen to give his people the knowledge of their sins being forgiven. It is called the righteousness of faith, because faith was the evidence identified in Genesis 15:6.
Rather than having to keep all the terms of Moses’ Law, we claim God’s righteousness by faith. The key issue here is the believer’s conscience, which is freed from the Law by faith (5:1;10:4,etc). This is the knowledge and confidence of righteousness before God based on faith in His provision.
This is righteousness before God by way of a totally different means than the Law of Moses. This is the righteousness accounted, counted, imputed, and reckoned to Abraham for his faith. This is the assurance, evidence, and proof of justification before God that was taught thus far. Faith is the claim and evidence of righteousness given by grace and sure to all the seed (4:16).
Moses’ Law was hopeless; no man could keep its terms, and God intended it so (Galatians 3:10,21-22). Any violation of Moses’ Law condemned a man without recourse, for it demanded perfection. Violating any provision of the Law brought a person under its entire condemnation (James 2:10). There is no mixing of faith and works, for salvation must be by Christ or the Law (Galatians 2:21; 5:4). The righteousness of faith is that finished work of Jesus Christ claimed and evidenced by faith. The covenantal system of salvation and worship was now praising God for Jesus Christ His Son. Anything added to the finished work of Christ so corrupts His death to render it void (Gal 5:1-6).
Speaketh on this wise.
Moses declared that righteousness by his law required perfect doing of its terms (10:5; Lev 18:5). The Law of Moses was a do-and-live system, but the gospel is a Christ-has-done-it-all message.Say not in thine heart.
Moses told Israel not to ask two questions about obtaining the Law, and Paul drew from the two. The gospel, when rightly believed, does not leave a person with a heart wondering about salvation. There is no reason to doubt or question means of justification, for all is certain and settled in Christ. The simplicity, certainty, and ease of justification through Christ claimed by faith ends all questions. Readers of Romans already learned of Christ’s work in chapters 3, 4, 5, and 8. Recall their doctrine. Justification is by the covenant work of the Second Adam without any human cooperation (5:12-19).Who shall ascend into heaven?
Moses used this question to Israel to emphasize the fact he had made life or death obvious to them. God’s Law covenant was not in heaven that required someone to go get it for them to hear and do. It was not some mystical or spiritual enigma or mystery that would confound Israel about the Law.Paul used it here in a similar way to point out righteousness Jesus had obtained and communicated. Jesus Christ already descended and ascended for the salvation of His elect children (Eph 4:8-10). Not only did Jesus secure everlasting righteousness and eternal salvation for the elect, He also commenced and ordained the preaching of it (Matt 4:17; Mark 1:14; Acts 2:22; 10:36; Heb 2:3). If we take this Pauline application of Moses, it is not as simplistic as who gets to go to heaven. The issue is not who goes to heaven or who is condemned, but who already went and fully obtained justification.
(That is, to bring Christ down from above.
In summarizing the gospel of grace, or righteousness of faith, we cannot compromise Jesus’ work. Jesus sits in heaven, having entirely purged our sins, and we dare not imply the contrary (Heb 1:3). Bringing Christ down from above implies or requires anything that would undo His finished work. Whatever obscurity the question holds, it is rejected as denying Christ’s sufficiency for salvation. Roman Catholics bring Him down in their Mass, and Arminians do to enter sinners’ hearts’ doors. The sum and substance of eternal life was obtained by Jesus Christ. There is nothing more to do! Our faith lays hold of the promise of eternal life before the world began and secured by Christ’s death. We reject every form of sacramentalism or decisionalism as contrary to the gospel of grace by faith.I just want to mention but not debate yet where you are starting to come off the rails. I don't want to detract you from eventually getting into Rom 10:8-13 but I'll mention one thing for a future debate, if you so choose to debate it. You "reject every form of sacramentalism". To me sacramentalism encapsulates the Lord's Supper and our Baptism. I am not a Catholic but I do recognize those 2 Biblical sacraments. That's all I want to say for now. You are obviously free to explain yourself but I will take a rain check on further discussions about sacraments because I do not wish to detract you from getting to Rom 10:8-13.Romans 10:5~ For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law.
In contrast to God making the elect righteousness by Jesus Christ, Moses put the burden on them. Moses was no friend of sinners, for his legalist means of justification left honest sinners hopeless. The issue here is justification – how can a sinner stand before a holy and just God and be accepted.Righteousness acceptable to God to declare a sinner justified required continual, perfect obedience.
That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
The quotation is from Leviticus 18:5, “Which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.” Nehemiah confirmed the words to Israel, “Which if a man do, he shall live in them” (Nehemiah 9:29). Ezekiel confirmed these words, “Which if a man do, he shall even live in them” (Ezekiel 20:11,13). Jesus said the same to a man, “If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). Paul confirmed the same elsewhere, “The man that doeth them shall live in them” (Galatians 3:12). Justification under Moses’ Law was do and live, depending on the sinner’s ability for perfection. It was based on the sinner’s performance – your performance – to be righteous before God. If you did all Moses’ Law required, then you would be justified before God and go to heaven. If you did not keep his Law perfectly, then you would be condemned by God to the lake of fire. Moses’ Law was hopeless; no man could keep its terms, and God intended it so (Galatians 3:10,21-22). If you kept the whole law, guilt in one point brought the law’s entire condemnation (James 2:10). Perfect obedience was the necessary requirement for eternal life, but no man could ever do it. Moses’ Law had never been intended to give life, but rather to drive to Christ (Gal 3:21-29). Justification through Jesus Christ is free by His redemption, obtaining perfection as a result of it. It is based on Jesus Christ’s performance, who fully finished His work and declared it done! The doctrine of representation is the plainest lesson of legal justification – by One (Romans 5:15-19)! But even before Jesus died, God viewed the elect in Christ for eternal justification (Ephesians 1:3-6). Paul will summarize the gospel, which is infinitely easier, by using Moses’ words (Deut. 30:11-14).
Romans 10:6~ But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
But the righteousness which is of faith.
The inspired disjunctive but draws a contrast between the gospel of grace and Moses’ Law (10:5). Paul drew a stark contrast between Moses’ Law and the gospel of grace as he did all along.
Paul is about to declare a summary of the radical difference of salvation by grace or by Law.
It is called the righteousness of faith, for faith is all that is initially required of us to claim it. Faith is the system God has chosen to give his people the knowledge of their sins being forgiven. It is called the righteousness of faith, because faith was the evidence identified in Genesis 15:6.
Rather than having to keep all the terms of Moses’ Law, we claim God’s righteousness by faith. The key issue here is the believer’s conscience, which is freed from the Law by faith (5:1;10:4,etc). This is the knowledge and confidence of righteousness before God based on faith in His provision.
This is righteousness before God by way of a totally different means than the Law of Moses. This is the righteousness accounted, counted, imputed, and reckoned to Abraham for his faith. This is the assurance, evidence, and proof of justification before God that was taught thus far. Faith is the claim and evidence of righteousness given by grace and sure to all the seed (4:16).
Moses’ Law was hopeless; no man could keep its terms, and God intended it so (Galatians 3:10,21-22). Any violation of Moses’ Law condemned a man without recourse, for it demanded perfection. Violating any provision of the Law brought a person under its entire condemnation (James 2:10). There is no mixing of faith and works, for salvation must be by Christ or the Law (Galatians 2:21; 5:4). The righteousness of faith is that finished work of Jesus Christ claimed and evidenced by faith. The covenantal system of salvation and worship was now praising God for Jesus Christ His Son. Anything added to the finished work of Christ so corrupts His death to render it void (Gal 5:1-6).
Speaketh on this wise.
Moses declared that righteousness by his law required perfect doing of its terms (10:5; Lev 18:5). The Law of Moses was a do-and-live system, but the gospel is a Christ-has-done-it-all message.
Say not in thine heart.
Moses told Israel not to ask two questions about obtaining the Law, and Paul drew from the two. The gospel, when rightly believed, does not leave a person with a heart wondering about salvation. There is no reason to doubt or question means of justification, for all is certain and settled in Christ. The simplicity, certainty, and ease of justification through Christ claimed by faith ends all questions. Readers of Romans already learned of Christ’s work in chapters 3, 4, 5, and 8. Recall their doctrine. Justification is by the covenant work of the Second Adam without any human cooperation (5:12-19).
Who shall ascend into heaven?
Moses used this question to Israel to emphasize the fact he had made life or death obvious to them. God’s Law covenant was not in heaven that required someone to go get it for them to hear and do. It was not some mystical or spiritual enigma or mystery that would confound Israel about the Law.
Paul used it here in a similar way to point out righteousness Jesus had obtained and communicated. Jesus Christ already descended and ascended for the salvation of His elect children (Eph 4:8-10). Not only did Jesus secure everlasting righteousness and eternal salvation for the elect, He also commenced and ordained the preaching of it (Matt 4:17; Mark 1:14; Acts 2:22; 10:36; Heb 2:3). If we take this Pauline application of Moses, it is not as simplistic as who gets to go to heaven. The issue is not who goes to heaven or who is condemned, but who already went and fully obtained justification.
(That is, to bring Christ down from above
In summarizing the gospel of grace, or righteousness of faith, we cannot compromise Jesus’ work. Jesus sits in heaven, having entirely purged our sins, and we dare not imply the contrary (Heb 1:3). Bringing Christ down from above implies or requires anything that would undo His finished work. Whatever obscurity the question holds, it is rejected as denying Christ’s sufficiency for salvation. Roman Catholics bring Him down in their Mass, and Arminians do to enter sinners’ hearts’ doors. The sum and substance of eternal life was obtained by Jesus Christ. There is nothing more to do! Our faith lays hold of the promise of eternal life before the world began and secured by Christ’s death. We reject every form of sacramentalism or decisionalism as contrary to the gospel of grace by faith.
Also, are you quoting from outside sources? If so, please declare that source.
Last edited:
brightfame52
Well-known member
@Red Baker
Amen and thats why I see the scripture teaching for the elect, Justification before God from all eternity, they being always viewed in Christ, hence Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And also notice Eph 2:3 never said they were under wrath, that's impossible, but that they were BY nature worthy of it as others. But they were never under Gods judicial wrath, for Christ always stood as their Satisfaction before the Throne, Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Amen and thats why I see the scripture teaching for the elect, Justification before God from all eternity, they being always viewed in Christ, hence Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And also notice Eph 2:3 never said they were under wrath, that's impossible, but that they were BY nature worthy of it as others. But they were never under Gods judicial wrath, for Christ always stood as their Satisfaction before the Throne, Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
As for your loathing of "decisionalism", I colored in red wherever a decision is made to do something in just your first set of sentences. Every paragraph you wrote contains a decision to do something. You can decide to argue against how I decided to counter your loathing of "decisionalism".
Last edited:
Massive failure on both @Red Baker's and your side to think that "the elect have never from eternity been view outside of Christ's body". Read Eph 2:11-13.
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—
12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
For God so loved the world that he drowned everyone in it except for 8 people, and at least one of them was a bad apple.
Obviously, "God is love" doesn't describe everything God does.
How about the Calvinist pagan view that God is the source of demonic evil? How do you prove that?
I have read extensively over the years~from Gill, Haldane, Richardson, Calvin and Pink, my main source, and a few minor ones, all contributed to my spiritual growth for whatever it is worth, some are my private understanding.
Brother, I'm not coming off the rail, because neither baptism, nor the Lord's supper are sacraments, they are Ordinances, a big difference from the teachings of RCC/EOC, etc.
The RCC is a works-based religion, teaching seven church duties to make it to heaven. They are called sacraments – outward signs conveying inward grace. The Bible teaches no such thing
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I have no idea. You'll have to ask a Calvinist pagan.
brightfame52
Well-known member
They were without Christ, not they werent in Christ. All the elect when in spiritual death are without Christ in a spiritual sense. Like Paul said some were in Christ before him, thats talking about they were converted to Christ before him, but all the elect were chosen in Christ before the foundation. Eph 1:4 In fact, those in Eph 2:11-13 are the same in Eph 1:4
Synergy, no failure, you must put the proper sense of the scriptures under consideration, or else, you will have scriptures contradicting each other.
Paul is speaking concerning the "Gentiles nation as a whole", not concerning individuals among them, because some of them were the very elect. In the OT, God was not the God of any nation except Israel, all others were without God, truth, etc.
The same problem folks have with these verses:
This verse is not speaking about folks in the faith losing the gift of eternal life, for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance~yet as a nation, the Gentiles just as Israel of old, shall be cut off from God visiting them, which truly we are at that point in the history of God visiting the Gentiles nations.
Quoting scriptures means very little, without laboring to give them their true biblical sense.
Lawhana
New member
Regarding the title of the thread:
Regenerate:verb as in breathe new life into.
To be born again, or to experience the new birth, is a phrase, that refers to a "spiritual rebirth, or a regeneration of the human spirit.
Salvation is the act of the redemption of man from the bondage of sin and liability to the wages of sin, which is eternal death, transforming him by conversion & regeneration to the promise of eternal life.
Ephesians 2:1-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The phrases, regenerate, transform, convert, quicken, born again, and being saved are works of grace granted by God to whosoever will believe his truths and live in his word.
Regenerate:verb as in breathe new life into.
To be born again, or to experience the new birth, is a phrase, that refers to a "spiritual rebirth, or a regeneration of the human spirit.
Salvation is the act of the redemption of man from the bondage of sin and liability to the wages of sin, which is eternal death, transforming him by conversion & regeneration to the promise of eternal life.
Ephesians 2:1-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The phrases, regenerate, transform, convert, quicken, born again, and being saved are works of grace granted by God to whosoever will believe his truths and live in his word.
civic
Well-known member
Yes alienated and not in Him until they believed . It’s nothing but eisegesis
Yep clearly they were not in Christ
Okay~ we are going to address 8-13...................
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
But what saith it?
The righteousness of faith is what is being described, told first negatively (10:6-7), now positively. So what is the summary of the gospel positively considered? Paul will now declare the role of faith, the system God has chosen to bring his children to the knowledge of the truth of imputeth righteousness.Since Jesus Christ descended and ascended, finishing righteousness, we simply claim it by faith. The gospel does not declare an impossible or improbable situation for salvation, but an easy one, to those who have understanding. What says the word of faith, which we preach? What is the simple explanation of the gospel?
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart.
The gospel is easy, plain, obvious, and simple by bold and clear preaching like the Law of Moses. We start with the intent of these words as intended and understood from Deuteronomy 30:14. Paul did not merely quote it; Moses was not only prophesying; Paul adapted the Law for gospel!
The Law had been fully declared, illustrated, confirmed, and discussed so that it was common matter in their hearts and mouths, in their meditation and their conversations, in a practical sense.
Why would any require vital salvation here, since it is taught clearly (10:2) and not the issue (10:14)? The Roman readers already knew exactly the purpose and role of faith in justification (1:8-17). They knew as a foundational truth of the gospel that believing is the initiating mark of the elect.
Jesus Christ has already done everything necessary by descending and ascending to save us. Jesus Christ finished legal salvation, and He commenced and ordained its worldwide preaching.
The issue is the conscience of the believer claiming Jesus Christ to end trust in the Law (10:4).
To emphasize, as many do, the vital phase of salvation here – regeneration – would be disruptive to the flow.
The issue Paul soon takes up is how will they believe without hearing, not believe without life. That God prepares the heart of man and the answer of the tongue we do not deny (Proverbs 16:1). That God implants His law into the heart of His elect we do not deny (Hebrews 8:10; 2nd Corinthians 3:3).
The question is whether or not that is what the Holy Spirit and Paul intended here.
Vital salvation is crucial, so we add thoughts here, believing Paul’s intent was primarily practical. Vital salvation is the internal work of grace called regeneration, quickening, or being born again. Man is spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-3), his heart deceitfully and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9), his tongue and mouth full of curses and lies (Romans 3:13-14), so how can the word of faith be there?
“Preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD” (Proverbs 16:1). “The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them” (Proverbs 20:12). Salvation from sin and condemnation brings with it the ability and desire to know God and Jesus Christ (John 8:47; 17:2-3). If God did not work in us the desire and the ability to please Him, we would not do so (Romans 8:8). It is a corruption of the truth to hear Arminians presume the flesh must please God to become spiritual (John 3:6; Romans 8). They will never finish the sentence of John 1:12-13, for it totally destroys their free-will heresy. Unless a man is born again, which occurs like the wind blows, he cannot see Jesus (John 3:3,8).
Armenians have no clue that this same favorite Bible writer of theirs teaches the priority of regeneration to faith in his first epistle (John 5:24 cp Ist John 5:1; 5:4; 4:7; 3:14; 4:15; 3:7; 2:29).
This doctrine of salvation is planted in the heart and in the mouth by God’s sovereign grace. The New Testament shows grace working from the inside (Isaiah 59:21; John 6:44-45; 2nd Cor 3:3; Philippians 2:12-13; Ist Thessalonians 4:9; Hebrews 8:10-12; 10:16; James 1:21; Ist John 2:27; etc.).
Faith is the gift of God implanted in our hearts to believe the truth (Galatians 5:22; Romans 8:14-15; 12:3; Acts 18:27; Ist Peter 1:21; 2nd Peter 1:1; James 2:5). True preaching aims for what God sovereignly planted rather than planting something itself.
The essence of Jesus Christ’s free salvation without works of the Law is an inward operation performed by God but identified by outward faith and confession.
That is, the word of faith, which we preach.
Paul always preached about faith – believing the gospel is claim and evidence of true righteousness, not the means to obtain it. He has emphasized throughout the epistle thus far, especially chapters 3 and 4, using Abraham. Go to any of His epistles, especially Galatians or Hebrews, and see the emphasis on faith and belief. They already knew, and He had already stated, that God’s salvation is to believers (Romans 1:16-17) to the rest, it is pure foolishness~1st Corinthians 1:18
You mishandle john 5:24
John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Verse 25 makes it clear faith precedes life
as do
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:57 (KJV 1900) — 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
1john 5:1 speaks not of initial faith but the ongoing life of faith
brightfame52
Well-known member
Clearly they were in Christ Eph 1:4
Do you truly want to go here? No problem on our part, but certainly major problem for folks like you who teach and believe in decisional salvation.
John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
What tenses are “heareth,” “believeth,” “hath,” “shall not come,” and “is passed”? The one hearing and believing (present tense) is already in possession of eternal life. The one hearing and believing (present tense) shall not come into future condemnation. The one hearing and believing (present) has already been passed by the perfect tense. A believer has been passed from death to life, owns eternal life, and will not be damned. This verse by itself is a wonderful lesson in salvation grammar by its variety of tenses. Of course, the verse is read, quoted, and preached as a sound bite for decisional salvation.25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Verily, verily, I say unto you~double verily is used to get the hearer's attention of a forth coming truth that few believe and teach. Verse 25 is God's commentary on verse 24!The hour is coming, and now is~Note the difference between an hour present and one that was yet to come (28).
When the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God. This resurrection comes in close connection to the gift of eternal life (5:24).
We receive this quickening alone by the life-giving voice of Christ at regeneration. This resurrection comes in close connection to the gift of eternal life (5:24). There is a quickening from death to life to be identified here (Eph 2:1-3). This is the first resurrection to save some from the second death (Rev 20:6). It is the voice of the Son of God here, not the voice of preachers about the Son. If we insert the voice of preachers or soul winners here, we must in 28 also.
And they that hear shall live~The hearing here is limited – it is not all as in the next resurrection of bodies. The hearing here is passive – in that dead cannot hear but come alive anyway.
When Jesus resurrected Lazarus, His call was not an offer or a suggestion. When Jesus raised Lazarus, His call was effectual with power to give life.
In comparison to the next resurrection, all corrupt bodies respond passively. There is no consideration or cooperation by dead souls or by dead bodies! So, regeneration does and must proceed faith.
Will any man have any part in the future resurrection of their bodies? Of course not, and neither does man with his spiritual resurrection from being dead in trepasses and sin to life in Jesus Christ. Once resurrected by the voice of God, then from that point forward, they can believe, repent and be baptized into Jesus Christ's religion.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Maybe Jesus whispered to Lazarus, "If you believe of your own free will, then rise!"
Similar threads
