Johann
Well-known member
And what about the flood? Killed the whole then known world, babies and cattle.
Is YHWH righteous? Absolutely.
J.
What Does “Another Gospel” Mean?
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Is YHWH righteous? Absolutely.
J.
civic
Well-known member
scripture doesn't say what happened to the children as far as their destiny.
Johann
Well-known member
I agree, Scripture is silent re the destiny of babies but we can't use this as an emotional appeal as to what stands written, plainly, for our growth and sanctification in the sphere of the Holy Spirit.
David’s Statement About His Child (2 Samuel 12:23) – After his infant son died, David said, “But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”
Some interpret this to mean David believed he would be reunited with his child in the afterlife, suggesting the possibility of salvation for infants.
Deuteronomy 1:39 – “Moreover, your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.” This passage indicates that young children were not held accountable for the sins of their parents and were permitted to enter the Promised Land, possibly hinting at a principle of divine mercy toward those who lack moral discernment.
Jonah 4:11 – “And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?” God shows concern for those who lack moral discernment, which some interpret as including infants or young children.
Romans 5:12-19 – Paul teaches that sin entered the world through Adam, and death spread to all men. However, this passage does not specifically address the status of infants who have not personally sinned.
Romans 1:20 & 2:12-16 – These passages emphasize accountability based on knowledge and moral awareness, which some take as a basis for the idea that infants, lacking such knowledge, may not be condemned.
While these verses provide theological implications, they do not give a definitive statement regarding the eternal fate of infants who die. Therefore, it is correct to say that Scripture is silent on this matter in terms of an explicit declaration.
J.
civic
Well-known member
ditto
Amen brother Johann, the Lord bless you with more wisdom, to be used for his glory.
Johann
Well-known member
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
infant baptism is as useless as paps on a boar hog . While its true evil is present within children
Its true God knows that infants and small children cannot discern squat .
From the root to the fruit the doctrine of calivin and the RCC is pretty much rotted .
But as always , and yes i said always even the falsest of ones can speak partial truths . heck even budda could speak some truths
yet HIMS false . The dire importance for noses in bibles , a key phrase i often use , IS DIRE NECESSARY .
cause christendom has become a house of cards doing all to maintain some form of balance
but at the first strike of a strong wind that HOUSE IS COMING DOWN my friend . sand dont support squat .
THE FOUNDATION OF JESUS and of the apostels HAS BEEN abandoned for the doctrines of men .
Now i know that might sting a bit to hear , might sound judgemntal and hateful for me to type this ,
BUT TRUE IT IS . very few lambs remain and must take refuge in the scrips to learn for themselves
that which men no longer teach or rightly divide , TRUTH .
I dont say that to be mean , i dont say this to be harsh or sound judgmental .
BELIEVE YOU ME , ITS QUITE THE OPPOSITE , I WISH TO GOD ALL WHO NAMED THE NAME OF JESUS
actually LOVED and FOLLOWED HIM . but this is JUST NOT the case . IT IS BIBLE TIME for ourselves
and may the lambs find company with other like minded lambs . I truly only desire and desired good for the people,
BUT I SEE THE DEADLY DANGER and i know the END IS COMING and many aint gonna make it .
WE GOTS TO DO SOMETHING . AND WE HAS GOT TO DO IT NOW . get this people back into JUST and i repeat
JUST the bible FOR themselves cause most leaders no longer know what they have lost let alone that they are the lost
leading the lost to perditoin . TRULY WISH i had better news , but i aint giving up , i will continue to remind
to warn , to correct so long as breath be in my lungs to do so .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
That is all we can do my dear sister . Who so ever hears amen who so ever rejects its on them .
I wish to GOD with all my heart that the churches had returned to JUST bible reading to learn and to grow
but this is just not the case at all . THEY TURNED ON IT and at best twist only certain parts of a phrase
GOD is love unto their own destuction . THEY KNOW NIETHER GOD or HIS LOVE . My prayer
is that many come out of places where leaders WILL NOT repent and do so fast . Get back into prayer and bible reading for themselves .
GOD will gather the sheep . Sure it might be only small gatherings scattered world wide
but where two or three be THERE HE IS . I wish i had better news , but i simply have not seen ANY remote kind
of repentance in most all these mainstream churches . THEY GETTING WORSE , not better , WORSE
and all they see this falling away as is AN END TIME AWAKENING , some kind of love call they THINK be of GOD .
I warned us years and years ago times would get worse and it would only speed up the closer we got and do get to the end .
WELL ITS SURE SPEEDING UP NOW and WORSE IT DO GET all the time .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
In these , i was about to write last days , however i think this next phrase sounds better , LAST HOURS
times will get worse and fast .
The tares will see the delusion , the falling away as AN ENLIGHTENMENT , AN awakening a , love call of GOD , if you will .
THE sheep will see it for what it is , A STRONG DELUSION to take captive all who rejected the love of the truth
whereby they could have been saved , captive to a lie that UNIFIES them as one
under what they think is love and WHO they beleive is GOD . THIS IS A FACT and its increasing as we speak .
Marvelloustime
Member
Darn right there. They love their online church courses. Doing their church services in nursing homes. Going to growth groups. Harassing those that have left mainstream churches due to their dire dung doctrine. But you offer one of these all inclusivians to do a bible read, and fellowship with true believers, they respond with they are too tired. Bull.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
FULL on alert and let none be sleeping but be alert and awake , the end hour approaches
and times will only get worse in this world .
and times will only get worse in this world .
LOL....Amen! It is very sad to see even some great men, who could not get pass that lie that so-called church father's brought into the church so soon after the apostles of the Lord Jesus died off.
Depraved, but not totally depraved, by nature. That is the whole point of this creation. Given that mankind is "depraved by nature", who would, in spite of it all, freely choose to believe in God and love Him? It is those who to whom He gives the gift to be with Him eternally.
Amen Johann, very good wisdom brother given. which is very rare in our day.
Many years ago, I remembered reading behind an old preacher of the gospel who said: "In God's wrath, there's more mercy than in our mercy that we show others!" I truly believe there is much truth in that statement. God is gracious and merciful above all, and one day soon we shall see this with our very eyes that he is indeed. The half has yet been told just how merciful he is, even in his awful wrath that the wicked shall experience.
My dear brother, I believe it does in these words:
Romans 5:14
“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”Which I have always understood to be even over infants, who did not actually sin, but sinned in Adam. Even if the persons here referred to were those who did not break a positive or a revealed law, yet it will come to the same thing. If the reign of death proves the reign of sin in such persons, must not the reign of death over infants equally prove the reign of sin? If the death of adults before the time of Moses was a proof of their being sinners then of necessity the death of infants must prove the same thing. If death does not prove sin in infants it cannot prove sin in any. If infants may die though they are not sinners, then may adults die without being sinners.
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The death due to sin is not physical death. Man, Adam, was not created immortal. He was mortal. God placed the tree of life in the garden as a hedge against Adam's mortality. So long as he remained in the garden, the fruit of that tree could and would keep him from dying physically. Once he sinned and was ejected from the garden, Adam no longer had access to that fruit and he eventually died. But the moment he sinned he became dead in his sin; he died spiritually.
No one "sinned in Adam". God did not impute Adam's sin to anyone but Adam. Any sin imputed to anyone else was sin they themselves committed. Anything else would be unjust. God is not unjust.
Babies can and sometimes die because they are mortal. Mortality is a physical fact. There is no such thing as physical immortality.
No one "sinned in Adam". God did not impute Adam's sin to anyone but Adam. Any sin imputed to anyone else was sin they themselves committed. Anything else would be unjust. God is not unjust.
Babies can and sometimes die because they are mortal. Mortality is a physical fact. There is no such thing as physical immortality.
Johann
Well-known member
I'm not at liberty to swim in waters where Scripture is silent, @Red Baker.
Romans 5:14 Textual Analysis
Textus Receptus:
"ἀλλὰ ἐβασίλευσεν ὁ θάνατος ἀπὸ Ἀδὰμ μέχρι Μωϋσέως, καὶ ἐπὶ τοὺς μὴ ἁμαρτήσαντας ἐπὶ τῷ ὁμοιώματι τῆς παραβάσεως Ἀδὰμ, ὅς ἐστι τύπος τοῦ μέλλοντος."
Key phrase:
"τοὺς μὴ ἁμαρτήσαντας ἐπὶ τῷ ὁμοιώματι τῆς παραβάσεως Ἀδὰμ"
Literally: "those who did not sin in the likeness of Adam's transgression."
This implies there were people who suffered death without committing a willful, deliberate transgression like Adam.
Who Are "Those Who Did Not Sin After the Likeness of Adam's Transgression"?
Scholars propose several possibilities:
Infants and Young Children – They are morally incapable of committing conscious sin yet still die, which would indicate that death affects them due to Adam’s sin, even though they did not "sin" as Adam did.
Pre-Mosaic Individuals Without Law – Some interpret this as those who lived before the giving of the Mosaic Law (since the context is "from Adam to Moses"), implying that death reigned even over those who did not transgress an explicit command as Adam did.
Gentiles Without Special Revelation – Some extend this to include Gentiles outside the Law, though this view is less likely given the specific timeframe mentioned.
Does This Support Infants Being Guilty of Sin in Adam?
The phrase "did not sin in the likeness of Adam’s transgression" suggests that some died without personal transgression.
Since Romans 6:23 states, "the wages of sin is death," this raises the question: Why did death reign over those who did not sin personally?
This strongly suggests that death, as a penalty, was inherited from Adam, even by those who had not personally sinned (which includes infants).
This supports the view that infants are affected by Adam’s sin but does not necessarily prove they are personally guilty of it.
Cross-References-
Deuteronomy 1:39 – Infants and young children were considered to have "no knowledge of good or evil," implying they lack moral culpability.
Isaiah 7:16 – Speaks of a stage where a child "does not yet know to refuse evil and choose good."
Ezekiel 18:20 – "The soul that sinneth, it shall die," emphasizing personal responsibility rather than inherited guilt.
1 Corinthians 15:22 – "In Adam all die," reinforcing that death affects all, not necessarily through personal sin but through Adam’s original transgression.
Conclusion
Romans 5:14 affirms that death affects even those who have not committed personal sin in the way Adam did. This aligns with the idea that infants and others who lack moral capacity are still subject to death due to Adam’s sin, but it does not explicitly state that they are personally guilty of sin.
This distinction is crucial in differentiating between inherited consequences (mortality, corruption) and imputed guilt (whether they are personally accountable before God).
This is beyond my depth and above my understanding, brother.
J.
