Trinitarianism verses Modalism debate

[TomL]

When one cannot answer a simple question, then it's over.
but one more, for a little deeper hole. Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" (Smile). Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

this letter is from ONLY "ONE" Person... for the him " which is, and which was, and which is to come" that's the Lord Jesus. and the seven Spirits is the Lord Jesus. and of course, the faithful witness ..... is the Lord Jesus..... oh too easy.

101G.

Revelation 1:4–5 (ESV) — 4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood


And

One and two and three

 

[civic]

LOL, LOL, LOL, the Lamb is GOD... (smile). Listen and learn, is not the Lord Jesus the Lamb? let's see who created all things, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

well now Jesus, the resurrected LAMB is the CREATOR..... (smile)...... Uh O!

101G

the passages are describing two on the throne noe one on the throne- God is distinguished from the Lamb in those passages.

 

[101G]

No reason to

your errors are apparent

sorry all you did is ignore the evidence which differentiated them

Father and Son are two persons

1. The saluations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 John 3; Phm 1:3

2 . Two witnesses; John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; compare Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15.

3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; compare John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21.

4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 14:31; 17:23-26

5. The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41 -42; 12:28; 17:126; etc.


Notice in particular

John 8:17–18 (NIV) — 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

You appealed to Echad but it does not support you

Genesis 2:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

where two persons are referred to

Then also your appeal to allos


Bible Search for lemma.g:ἄλλος


Matt 2:12
King James Version
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Matt 4:21
King James Version
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Matt 5:39
King James Version
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matt 8:9
King James Version
For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Matt 10:23
King James Version
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matt 12:13
King James Version
Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Matt 13:5
King James Version
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

Matt 13:7
King James Version
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

Matt 13:8
King James Version
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Matt 13:24
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matt 13:31
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Matt 13:33
King James Version
Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Matt 16:14
King James Version
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matt 19:9
King James Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matt 20:3
King James Version
And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

Matt 20:6
King James Version
And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

Matt 21:8
King James Version
And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.

Matt 21:33
King James Version
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matt 21:36
King James Version
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

Matt 21:41
King James Version
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Matt 22:4
King James Version
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

Matt 25:16
King James Version
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matt 25:17
King James Version
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matt 25:20
King James Version
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matt 25:22
King James Version
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matt 26:71
King James Version
And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matt 27:42
King James Version
He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Matt 27:61
King James Version
And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

Matt 28:1
King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

it never refers to one thing or one person

ok, let's see if it do not refers to ONE PERSON. Listen and Learn, Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." Revelation 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

I is a single person... and the I here is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. the one who is the First and the Last the Lord Jesus. correct. now this, Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."
so is the LORD is Isaiah 66:22 the same ONE PERSON here in Revelation 21:5 who make all things new? yes or No....... (smile).

can't wait to hear your answer.

101G
I is a single Person.

 

[101G]

the passages are describing two on the throne noe one on the throne- God is distinguished from the Lamb in those passages.

if so read POST #123.

101G

 

[TomL]

LOL, LOL, LOL, the Lamb is GOD... (smile). Listen and learn, is not the Lord Jesus the Lamb? let's see who created all things, Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

well now Jesus, the resurrected LAMB is the CREATOR..... (smile)...... Uh O!

101G

Christ was God's agent in creation

Dia is through - it denotes agency or agent

John 1:3 (NASB95) — 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:10 (NASB95) — 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Colossians 1:16 (NASB95) — 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

that would be two not one





Hello Christ was the agent of God's creation;

that is two once again

 

[101G]

@civic and @TomL
if it's two who sitting on the throne, and the one who is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, who is the First and the Last. said it is he who make all things new. if so then the LORD in Isaiah 66 who make all thing NEW, tell us when the "LORD" died and rose?

101G

 

[TomL]

ok, let's see if it do not refers to ONE PERSON. Listen and Learn, Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." Revelation 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

I is a single person... and the I here is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. the one who is the First and the Last the Lord Jesus. correct. now this, Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain."
so is the LORD is Isaiah 66:22 the same ONE PERSON here in Revelation 21:5 who make all things new? yes or No....... (smile).

can't wait to hear your answer.

101G
I is a single Person.

Duh you quote one person and ignore the other


And you did not deal with the evidence presented

They are differentiated here

Father and Son are two persons

1. The saluations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 John 3; Phm 1:3

2 . Two witnesses; John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; compare Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15.

3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; compare John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21.

4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 14:31; 17:23-26

5. The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41 -42; 12:28; 17:126; etc.


Notice in particular

John 8:17–18 (NIV) — 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

You appealed to Echad but it does not support you

Genesis 2:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

where two persons are referred to

Then also your appeal to allos


Bible Search for lemma.g:ἄλλος


Matt 2:12
King James Version
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Matt 4:21
King James Version
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Matt 5:39
King James Version
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matt 8:9
King James Version
For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Matt 10:23
King James Version
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matt 12:13
King James Version
Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Matt 13:5
King James Version
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

Matt 13:7
King James Version
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

Matt 13:8
King James Version
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Matt 13:24
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matt 13:31
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Matt 13:33
King James Version
Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Matt 16:14
King James Version
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matt 19:9
King James Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matt 20:3
King James Version
And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

Matt 20:6
King James Version
And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

Matt 21:8
King James Version
And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.

Matt 21:33
King James Version
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matt 21:36
King James Version
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

Matt 21:41
King James Version
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Matt 22:4
King James Version
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

Matt 25:16
King James Version
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matt 25:17
King James Version
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matt 25:20
King James Version
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matt 25:22
King James Version
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matt 26:71
King James Version
And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matt 27:42
King James Version
He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Matt 27:61
King James Version
And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

Matt 28:1
King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

it never refers to one thing or one person

 

[TomL]

@civic and @TomL
if it's two who sitting on the throne, and the one who is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, who is the First and the Last. said it is he who make all things new. if so then the LORD in Isaiah 66 who make all thing NEW, tell us when the "LORD" died and rose?

101G

Do you not believe scripture

Revelation 3:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I one person

his a second person

 

[civic]

Duh you quote one person and ignore the other


And you did not deal with the evidence presented

They are differentiated here

Father and Son are two persons

1. The saluations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 John 3; Phm 1:3

2 . Two witnesses; John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; compare Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15.

3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; compare John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21.

4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 14:31; 17:23-26

5. The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41 -42; 12:28; 17:126; etc.


Notice in particular

John 8:17–18 (NIV) — 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

You appealed to Echad but it does not support you

Genesis 2:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

where two persons are referred to

Then also your appeal to allos


Bible Search for lemma.g:ἄλλος


Matt 2:12
King James Version
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Matt 4:21
King James Version
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Matt 5:39
King James Version
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matt 8:9
King James Version
For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Matt 10:23
King James Version
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matt 12:13
King James Version
Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Matt 13:5
King James Version
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

Matt 13:7
King James Version
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

Matt 13:8
King James Version
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Matt 13:24
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matt 13:31
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Matt 13:33
King James Version
Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Matt 16:14
King James Version
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matt 19:9
King James Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matt 20:3
King James Version
And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

Matt 20:6
King James Version
And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

Matt 21:8
King James Version
And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.

Matt 21:33
King James Version
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matt 21:36
King James Version
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

Matt 21:41
King James Version
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Matt 22:4
King James Version
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

Matt 25:16
King James Version
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matt 25:17
King James Version
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matt 25:20
King James Version
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matt 25:22
King James Version
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matt 26:71
King James Version
And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matt 27:42
King James Version
He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Matt 27:61
King James Version
And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

Matt 28:1
King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

it never refers to one thing or one person

ditto

 

[101G]

Duh you quote one person and ignore the other


And you did not deal with the evidence presented

They are differentiated here

Father and Son are two persons

1. The saluations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 John 3; Phm 1:3

2 . Two witnesses; John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; compare Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15.

3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; compare John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21.

4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 14:31; 17:23-26

5. The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41 -42; 12:28; 17:126; etc.


Notice in particular

John 8:17–18 (NIV) — 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

You appealed to Echad but it does not support you

Genesis 2:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

where two persons are referred to

Then also your appeal to allos


Bible Search for lemma.g:ἄλλος


Matt 2:12
King James Version
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Matt 4:21
King James Version
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Matt 5:39
King James Version
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matt 8:9
King James Version
For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Matt 10:23
King James Version
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matt 12:13
King James Version
Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Matt 13:5
King James Version
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

Matt 13:7
King James Version
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

Matt 13:8
King James Version
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Matt 13:24
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matt 13:31
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Matt 13:33
King James Version
Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Matt 16:14
King James Version
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matt 19:9
King James Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matt 20:3
King James Version
And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

Matt 20:6
King James Version
And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

Matt 21:8
King James Version
And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.

Matt 21:33
King James Version
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matt 21:36
King James Version
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

Matt 21:41
King James Version
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Matt 22:4
King James Version
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

Matt 25:16
King James Version
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matt 25:17
King James Version
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matt 25:20
King James Version
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matt 25:22
King James Version
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matt 26:71
King James Version
And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matt 27:42
King James Version
He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Matt 27:61
King James Version
And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

Matt 28:1
King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

it never refers to one thing or one person

all those scriptures and you cannot answer one which destroys all of your beliefs.
see, the LORD said Isaiah 66:22, he will make all things new. and in Revelation 21:5, he who sits on the throne here said "I will make all things NEW. so tell us when the "LORD... all caps died, and rose? .... book chapter and verse please.

101G.

 

[101G]

Do you not believe scripture

Revelation 3:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I one person

his a second person

Just answer post #130 please. if you cannot check ... and ... Mate...... if you need another shovel 101G have many more... (smile).

101G.

 

[101G]

well now you all don't have to answer all at once.

101G.

 

[101G]

you Fellas have dug a hole you cannot get out of. believe the scriptures, Revelation 4:2 "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." Revelation 4:3 "And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."

ONE THRONE, ONE PERSON. as said use common sense.

101G.

 

[TomL]

Just answer post #130 please. if you cannot check ... and ... Mate...... if you need another shovel 101G have many more... (smile).

101G.

You need to address all the facts you have failed to.

Ignoring the evidence against you and assuming your understanding of a particular verse does not prove your view

The verse does not show Jesus and the father are the same person,

Just like creation by the father through Jesus does not show Jesus is the Father.

Add to that trinitarians hold Jesus is LORD, The Father is LORD and the Holy Spirit is LORD

So there exists multiple understanding of the verse which do not necessitate your view

Your position is just not biblical

 

[TomL]

Just answer post #130 please. if you cannot check ... and ... Mate...... if you need another shovel 101G have many more... (smile).

101G.

Already done

you need to address the evidence against you and not just ignore it

They are differentiated here

Father and Son are two persons

1. The saluations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 John 3; Phm 1:3

2 . Two witnesses; John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; compare Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15.

3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; compare John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21.

4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 14:31; 17:23-26

5. The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41 -42; 12:28; 17:126; etc.


Notice in particular

John 8:17–18 (NIV) — 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

You appealed to Echad but it does not support you

Genesis 2:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

where two persons are referred to

Then also your appeal to allos


Bible Search for lemma.g:ἄλλος


Matt 2:12
King James Version
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Matt 4:21
King James Version
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Matt 5:39
King James Version
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matt 8:9
King James Version
For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Matt 10:23
King James Version
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matt 12:13
King James Version
Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Matt 13:5
King James Version
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

Matt 13:7
King James Version
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

Matt 13:8
King James Version
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Matt 13:24
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matt 13:31
King James Version
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Matt 13:33
King James Version
Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Matt 16:14
King James Version
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matt 19:9
King James Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matt 20:3
King James Version
And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

Matt 20:6
King James Version
And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

Matt 21:8
King James Version
And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.

Matt 21:33
King James Version
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

Matt 21:36
King James Version
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

Matt 21:41
King James Version
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Matt 22:4
King James Version
Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

Matt 25:16
King James Version
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matt 25:17
King James Version
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matt 25:20
King James Version
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matt 25:22
King James Version
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matt 26:71
King James Version
And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth.

Matt 27:42
King James Version
He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Matt 27:61
King James Version
And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

Matt 28:1
King James Version
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

it never refers to one thing or one person

So you fail to address passages differentiating them

you fail to deal with the rebuttal of the terms echad and allos you employed - they do not support you and actually work against your position

You fail to properly deal with the fact Jesus cited himself and the father as two witnesses, not one

 

[101G]

You need to address all the facts you have failed to.

GINOLJD, to all
opinion, or excuse?

The verse does not show Jesus and the father are the same person,

opinion, or excuse?

Just like creation by the father through Jesus does not show Jesus is the Father.

opinion, or excuse?

.... (smile).

101G

 

[101G]

Add to that trinitarians hold Jesus is LORD, The Father is LORD and the Holy Spirit is LORD

101G want to address this one alone
so Jesus is LORD.. correct, now who is the "Lord" in Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." now before you answer, Matthew 22:41 "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them," Matthew 22:42 "Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David." Matthew 22:43 "He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying," Matthew 22:44 "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?" Matthew 22:45 "If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?" Matthew 22:46 "And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions."

WILL BE LOOKING FOR YOUR ANSWER.
101g

 

[101G]

So there exists multiple understanding of the verse which do not necessitate your view

101G's view? who told you that. did not 101G say, "Diversified Oneness" is what the Lord Jesus taught his disciples and apostles, so why say this is 101G view and understanding? again your opinion or your excuse.

101G

 

[101G]

Father and Son are two persons

1. The saluations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:2; 2 John 3; Phm 1:3

you want saluations? ok 101G will give you saluations. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" Revelation 1:2 "Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw." Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;" Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

here in this saluation this letter is from "ONE" person. but let's eliminate your three person that you might believe that this is from. from your point of view.

Person #1. "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come", your Father Person?
Person #2. "from the seven Spirits", your Holy Spirit Person?
Person #3. "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness", no-brainer here, your Son person.

do you agree with this list so far? if not you can make any changes. this is where we will start to give you another shovel.

let 101G know if you agree with this list or not.

101G

 

[101G]

@civic @Fred
it has been stated that JESUS holds the Title "LORD", as well as the Holy Spirit, and the One you calls the Father. all three now hold the title "LORD". what 101G want is this .... "Do you fellas agree with the Statement that now.... all three person in the trinity hold the title "LORD", do you fellas agree with that statement? yes or no.

will be looking for your answers.... Or any trinitarian can reply. this was a new one for 101G and just want to know if the trinity doctrine has changed or not. 101G.