Trinitarianism verses Modalism debate

[TomL]

in TIME PLACE ORDER, and RANK..... lol, that's "Diversity" in plain sight.

101G

There is no support for your view that the father and the son are the same person

The father speaking of the son

Acts 2:33–36 (KJV 1900) — 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

again that is two

 

[TomL]

Earth to hell, it's ONE PERSON, LISTEN, ... LEARN
Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

attention.... attention..... is this two persons? no, but do not "WITH" indicate "ANOTHER?" yes, the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE in G243 ALLOS, and not G2087 heteros. and here is the answer in the BIBLE.... Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

"ALSO" means ... "in addition; too" the First is also the Last..... that's "Diversity Oneness".

101G.

With indicates more than one

Allos does not support you and you have ignored the evidence showing this

sorry, but you cannot prove a point by ignoring evidence which is against you

You really do need to give ir up

 

[101G]

The words do not support you as was shown

Neither Echad or allos

let 101G lend you another shovel. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" so, who was the COMFORTER that came before?

101G

 

[101G]

With indicates more than one

Allos does not support you and you have ignored the evidence showing this

G243 ALLOS expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort.
do you know what a Numerical Difference is? and of the SAME SORT? ... LOL, you're more lost than 101G thought.....

101G

 

[Fred]

LOL, did you read the post addressed to U?

No. And I already explained why in post 141.

Bingo!

 

[TomL]

let 101G lend you another shovel. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" so, who was the COMFORTER that came before?

101G

Lamentations 1:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 The Lord hath trodden under foot all my mighty men in the midst of me: He hath called an assembly against me to crush my young men: The Lord hath trodden the virgin, the daughter of Judah, as in a winepress. 16 For these things I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, Because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: My children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed.

 

[TomL]

G243 ALLOS expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort.
do you know what a Numerical Difference is? and of the SAME SORT? ... LOL, you're more lost than 101G thought.....

101G

sort but not numerical identity

it is never used of one thing

always more than one as the verses I quoted and you ignored showed

 

[101G]

To all my trinitarians.
understand the H259 ECHAD in plain Sight. scripture. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

in most minds, many think this is two persons. one giving another something...... OK let's see if the bible agrees with that thinking. someone (one person), gave "his" angel this revelation to reveal it to John. let's see who the angel say gave him the revelation to give to John. scripture, the angel speaking, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." THE "Lord" God? .... of the holy prophets.... translation, the God of the OT as well as the NT. many have said this is the ONE whom is called the Father, the same God as Ananias told Paul as to who sent him. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

the God of our Father. and here in revelation the God of the holy Prophets. now 101G ask all who know ..... who is the God of the .... holy Prophets, who is the God of our Fathers? 101G say the Lord JESUS is the God of our Fathers, who is the God of the Holy Prophets.

if any disagree please state your case.

101G.

 

[101G]

Lamentations 1:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 The Lord hath trodden under foot all my mighty men in the midst of me: He hath called an assembly against me to crush my young men: The Lord hath trodden the virgin, the daughter of Judah, as in a winepress. 16 For these things I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, Because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: My children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed.

is this the Lord Jesus who came in flesh and blood? yes or no....... (smile).... Oh my......

101G.

 

[101G]

sort but not numerical identity

it is never used of one thing

always more than one as the verses I quoted and you ignored showed

personal opinion? no good here, try again. only bible facts please.

101G.

 

[TomL]

personal opinion? no good here, try again. only bible facts please.

101G.

Sorry i quoted the verses. You ignored them. Your's is the personal opinion and mine the facts

You need to come out of your denial

 

[TomL]

is this the Lord Jesus who came in flesh and blood? yes or no....... (smile).... Oh my......

101G.

In its old testament context it is YHWH

 

[TomL]

To all my trinitarians.
understand the H259 ECHAD in plain Sight. scripture. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

in most minds, many think this is two persons. one giving another something...... OK let's see if the bible agrees with that thinking. someone (one person), gave "his" angel this revelation to reveal it to John. let's see who the angel say gave him the revelation to give to John. scripture, the angel speaking, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." THE "Lord" God? .... of the holy prophets.... translation, the God of the OT as well as the NT. many have said this is the ONE whom is called the Father, the same God as Ananias told Paul as to who sent him. Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him." Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

the God of our Father. and here in revelation the God of the holy Prophets. now 101G ask all who know ..... who is the God of the .... holy Prophets, who is the God of our Fathers? 101G say the Lord JESUS is the God of our Fathers, who is the God of the Holy Prophets.

if any disagree please state your case.

101G.

Echad

It is a Hebrew word

which is seen below

Genesis 2:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

One (echad) flesh

Consists of two persons

Echad of course does not appear in Rev 1

As per this particular text

Acts 3:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

we have two persons

 

[101G]

Sorry i quoted the verses. You ignored them. Your's is the personal opinion and mine the facts

You need to come out of your denial

personal opinions are IGNORED.

In its old testament context it is YHWH

101G did not ask you that. Oh well since you don't know. In old testament context it's not the Christ. and second, the comforter who came before is here ...... Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." ....... you have no clue .... do U? but it's right there before your very eyes if you're reading this verse...... this is why 101G thank God, for he has open 101G eyes to the truth.

101G.

 

[101G]

Acts 3:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

we have two persons

NO, you have two separate and distinct persons..... lol, lol, lol,

Echad

It is a Hebrew word

which is seen below

Genesis 2:24 (NASB 2020) — 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

One (echad) flesh

one Flesh, but God is a Spirit.... LOL, LOL, LOL, .... Oh my , my, my, how IGNORANT can one be.

now for your edification, even in flesh is the man/Adam, and his wife Eve THE SAME? is he male, and she female in flesh, is they the same? 101G hope you know that.... lol, if not .......... check.... mate again, 101G is almost running out of shovels. next stop pass hell is the LAKE of FIRE.

101G.

 

[101G]

Echad of course does not appear in Rev 1

but did you not say that the Father and the son are two separate persons? Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

God gave unto ..... "HIM?" .... who is the "HIM" here? ......... who is he/the him that showed it to his SERVANTS, not servant a single person, but servant(s) ... more than ONE ....... (smile), who is the "HIM" here in verse 1?

101G.

 

[TomL]

but did you not say that the Father and the son are two separate persons? Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

God gave unto ..... "HIM?" .... who is the "HIM" here? ......... who is he/the him that showed it to his SERVANTS, not servant a single person, but servant(s) ... more than ONE ....... (smile), who is the "HIM" here in verse 1?

101G.

Yes two

read the verse

God gave to him

that is two

 

[101G]

Acts 3:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

YOU SAID, "Lamentations 1:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 The Lord hath trodden under foot all my mighty men in the midst of me: He hath called an assembly against me to crush my young men: The Lord hath trodden the virgin, the daughter of Judah, as in a winepress. 16 For these things I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, Because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: My children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed". and YOU said that this Is YHWH. and the "Lord" here is
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

and in Psalms Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
LORD here is
H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.

and "Lord" as in Lamentations 1:15 is 2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel”.
WHAT DO THIS MEANS TomL? either the God of Our father is either the same one Person, or YOU have two FATHERS that YHWH, and them means YOU have TWO "GODS". meaning by definition ... that's polytheism. last shovel given .... y

your ... "OUR father God" has been answered. and you're into polytheism by YOUR DEFINITION, remember you said both are the "LORD" wich also deny the ECHAD of ONE in the same Person......

101G.

 

[TomL]

NO, you have two separate and distinct persons..... lol, lol, lol,

one Flesh, but God is a Spirit.... LOL, LOL, LOL, .... Oh my , my, my, how IGNORANT can one be.

now for your edification, even in flesh is the man/Adam, and his wife Eve THE SAME? is he male, and she female in flesh, is they the same? 101G hope you know that.... lol, if not .......... check.... mate again, 101G is almost running out of shovels. next stop pass hell is the LAKE of FIRE.

101G.

I don't know how ignorant can you get

No they are not one person

yet they are one flesh

Give it up. Your using a globe to argue for a flat earth is not working

 

[TomL]

YOU SAID, "Lamentations 1:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 The Lord hath trodden under foot all my mighty men in the midst of me: He hath called an assembly against me to crush my young men: The Lord hath trodden the virgin, the daughter of Judah, as in a winepress. 16 For these things I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, Because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: My children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed". and YOU said that this Is YHWH. and the "Lord" here is
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

and in Psalms Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
LORD here is
H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.

and "Lord" as in Lamentations 1:15 is 2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel”.
WHAT DO THIS MEANS TomL? either the God of Our father is either the same one Person, or YOU have two FATHERS that YHWH, and them means YOU have TWO "GODS". meaning by definition ... that's polytheism. last shovel given .... y

your ... "OUR father God" has been answered. and you're into polytheism by YOUR DEFINITION, remember you said both are the "LORD" wich also deny the ECHAD of ONE in the same Person......

101G.

Sorry wake up echad is never a numerical one but a compound unity

example a man and a women becoming one flesh

Psa 110 the lord said to my lord

again two

not two Gods two persons

Are you ignorant of what the trinity doctrine entails or do you just like erecting strawmen