Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God (=YHWH) are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:4)
- Thread starter Fred
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Matthias
Well-known member
The Messiah’s God is a single person.
Matthias
Well-known member
How many persons is the Father? That’s how many persons the man’s God is. One, not three.
This man is a unitarian, not a trinitarian.
Lily
Active member
When John wrote his Gospel, heresy was already present within the church. Maintaining that the body is evil and only the spirit is good, Gnostics insisted that if Jesus was God, He couldn’t have had a body. According to the Gnostics, when Jesus walked, He left no footprints; when He ate, He didn’t really swallow His food. He appeared as a Person, but He actually had no physical body.
What does John say to this? “We have heard Him with our ears; we have seen Him with our eyes; we have touched Him with our hands.”
“Jesus had a body,” said John. “He is God. He became Man” 1 John 1:1
Whenever the beginning was, wherever it was, whatever it might have been, Jesus—the Word—was already there. He had no beginning and He has no end. He is eternally God.
What does John say to this? “We have heard Him with our ears; we have seen Him with our eyes; we have touched Him with our hands.”
“Jesus had a body,” said John. “He is God. He became Man” 1 John 1:1
Whenever the beginning was, wherever it was, whatever it might have been, Jesus—the Word—was already there. He had no beginning and He has no end. He is eternally God.
Matthias
Well-known member
“In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.”
(John 1:1, Geneva Bible)
”This same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. In it was life, and that life was the light of men. And that light shineth in the wilderness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.”
(John 1:2-5, Geneva Bible)
Answer me one thing, if you please. How can someone who is just a human being be uncreated? See John 1:3.
Matthias
Well-known member
Let’s look at John 1:3.
”All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.”
(Geneva Bible)
Matthias
Well-known member
Answer me one thing, if you please. How is it that you continue to cling to a monotheism which destroys the Messiah’s monotheism and have no fear of what the Messiah will do about it?
Diserner
Well-known member
Do think Trinitarians can be saved? Just curious.
Matthias
Well-known member
Diserner
Well-known member
Yes, as long as they have faith in the substitutionary atonement of Christ for sins.
That's my personal salvific baseline.
John 1:2 οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεόν.
John 1:3 πάντα δι᾿ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν.
Both οὗτος and αὐτοῦ are masculine pronouns, not neuter pronouns. Only a grammar illiterate person would render those words as "it".
Permit me to introduce you to the Word of God. Do tell us how an "it" can ride a horse, have eyes, have a head, wear a crown, wear a garment, etc... This should be interesting....
Rev 19:11 And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
In conclusion, I see that you continue to manifest your anti-Greek attitude in many ways. Starting with the Greek NT, a perfect example is here. And then launching into a stigmatization of anything and everything in the 1000 year history of the Eastern Roman Empire. Starting with your siding of grammar illiterate bibles, you trash on the councils, and you stigmatize the church fathers. I would advise that you stop embarrassing yourself.
You haven't answered my original question: How can someone who is just a human being be uncreated? See John 1:3.
As for your question, I do cling to the monotheism of our Lord and God Jesus Christ. I cling to John 1, John 8:58, John 20:28-31 and the rest of the NT and OT Bibles for that matter.
I have no fear of your Unitarian Jesus because he is just a man and nowhere to be found in the Bible. In fact your Unitarian Jesus has a stricking resemblance to the Muslim Jesus, except that the Muslim Jesus never underwent the Cross. You know, Muslims can invoke your agency idea and dispose of any need for the Cross, thus effectively equating your Unitarian Jesus with their Muslim Jesus. This is really tragic for both Unitarians and Muslims.
Behold
Well-known member
Here is the "Gospel".
Paul = "The Cross is the power of God unto Salvation, to everyone who Believes"
Paul - "WE PREACH, = CHRIST Crucified"......
Paul -
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KJ21
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
ASV
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
AMP
for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].
AMPC
For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you except Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and Him crucified.
BRG
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
CSB
I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
CEB
I had made up my mind not to think about anything while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and to preach him as crucified.
CJB
for I had decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Yeshua the Messiah, and even him only as someone who had been executed on a stake as a criminal.
CEV
In fact, while I was with you, I made up my mind to speak only about Jesus Christ, who had been nailed to a cross.
DARBY
For I did not judge [it well] to know anything among you save Jesus Christ, and *him* crucified.
DLNT
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ— and this One having been crucified.
DRA
For I judged not myself to know anything among you, but Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
ERV
I decided that while I was with you I would forget about everything except Jesus Christ and his death on the cross.
EHV
For I had no intention of knowing anything among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
ESV
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
ESVUK
For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
EXB
[L For] I ·decided [resolved] that while I was with you I would ·forget about everything [L not know anything] except Jesus Christ and his death on the cross.
GNV
For I esteemed not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
GW
While I was with you, I decided to deal with only one subject—Jesus Christ, who was crucified.
GNT
For while I was with you, I made up my mind to forget everything except Jesus Christ and especially his death on the cross.
HCSB
For I didn’t think it was a good idea to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
ICB
I decided that while I was with you I would forget about everything except Jesus Christ and his death on the cross.
ISV
For while I was with you I resolved to know nothing except Jesus the Messiah, and him crucified.
Which includes this:
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 - New American Standard Bible 1995
The Fact of Christ’s Resurrection - Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of...
Matthias
Well-known member
“All but forgotten today, the Geneva Bible was the most widely read and influential English Bible of the 16th and 17th centuries.
There [in Geneva, Switzerland] a team of scholars lead by William Whittingham, and assisted by Miles Coverdale, Christopher Goodman, Anthony Gilby, John Knox, and Thomas Sampson produced The Geneva Bible, based on Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and a revision of William Tyndale‘s New Testament, which first appeared in 1526. The Geneva Bible New Testament was published in 1557, with the complete Bible appearing in 1560.
A superb translation, it was the product of the best Protestant scholars of the day and became the Bible of choice for many of the greatest thinkers of that time. …”
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com
Bold is mine.
civic
Well-known member
That’s not what Paul said is the gospel in Roman’s 1:16 or 1 Cor 15
Romans 1:16-For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile
1 Corinthians 15
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you,which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sinsaccording to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third dayaccording to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
Matthias
Well-known member
There is no such person.
No. He is a unitarian. You are a trinitarian. Unitary monotheism is incompatible with trinitary monotheism.
The God of Jesus is only one person. Jesus is no trinitarian.
Prove for yourself that the God of Jesus is only one person.
You don’t interpret those passages through the eyes of Jesus.
He is prophesied in the Hebrew Bible and documented in the New Testament. You’re going to meet the man one day. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes when you do.
You’re not well-educated on what Muslims believe if that’s all you know about the difference between what they believe about Jesus and what I believe about Jesus.
Muslims don’t invoke the Jewish Law of Agency, and the idea isn’t mine. I don’t dispose of any need of the cross. The Muslims don’t believe God has a son. You know that I do, but that doesn’t fit with your agenda.
