"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord” (Romans 10:9–13)

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



Doesn't have to be mentioned as you say, its implied by theological comparison and considerations. Neither was it about the literal fleshly/physical descendants of Abraham, thats just the flesh, it was about the children of promise, a spiritual seed, which Isaac typified Rom9:6-9

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The word flesh here sarx means:

used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship

So you in grave error, blind by jewish traditions and fables

Again, you misunderstand Scripture and in doing so misinterpret what is being written for our training and admonition.

Saul was able to come up with the understanding of what he wrote but he couldn't do it without the Holy Spirit directing him in the Scripture in order to bring out these teachings.
Isaac was promised; Ishmael was not. That is the whole of his statements.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



That was Isaac, yet he pictured Abrahams Spiritual Seed versus his carnal seed that you glory in Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Note: The brethren here are any believer in Christ regardless of ethnicity !

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Isaac was not a spiritual birth. He was a physical birth.

It is ONLY in hindsight that Saul can make such comparisons, but for all intents and purposes Isaac was a physical birth.

 

[brightfame52]

Your interpretation is so very convoluted. You apply things to the text that simply are not there.

Now, show me in the Abrahamic Covenant recorded in chapter 12, 15, and 17 the idea or concept - even the doctrine - that Isaac's birth is a spiritual birth. Much to the point anything spiritual came into view through Moses centuries later.

You can look at everything in hindsight but by doing so you insert into the text things not there.

Now, prove your spiritualizing the birth of Isaac in 12, 15, and 17.

The Abrahamic Covenant is primarily Spiritual and for a Spiritual Seed, though in subordination to the Spiritual aspect, there were some promises made to Abes physical seed, like the temporary occupation of the physical land of canaan, yet that aspect had conditions attached to it for them to continue in that land, but the primary and spiritual promises, the Land was heavenly, the New Redeemed world for all the children of God. Its the world God told Abraham he was heir of Rom 4:13

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

That world and this land are the same promise Gen 17:8

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you misunderstand Scripture and in doing so misinterpret what is being written for our training and admonition.

Saul was able to come up with the understanding of what he wrote but he couldn't do it without the Holy Spirit directing him in the Scripture in order to bring out these teachings.
Isaac was promised; Ishmael was not. That is the whole of his statements.

Doesn't have to be mentioned as you say, its implied by theological comparison and considerations. Neither was it about the literal fleshly/physical descendants of Abraham, thats just the flesh, it was about the children of promise, a spiritual seed, which Isaac typified Rom9:6-9

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The word flesh here sarx means:

used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship

So you in grave error, blind by jewish traditions and fables

 

[brightfame52]

Isaac was not a spiritual birth. He was a physical birth.

It is ONLY in hindsight that Saul can make such comparisons, but for all intents and purposes Isaac was a physical birth.

That was Isaac, yet he pictured Abrahams Spiritual Seed versus his carnal seed that you glory in Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Note: The brethren here are any believer in Christ regardless of ethnicity !

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Abrahamic Covenant is primarily Spiritual and for a Spiritual Seed, though in subordination to the Spiritual aspect, there were some promises made to Abes physical seed, like the temporary occupation of the physical land of canaan, yet that aspect had conditions attached to it for them to continue in that land, but the primary and spiritual promises, the Land was heavenly, the New Redeemed world for all the children of God. Its the world God told Abraham he was heir of Rom 4:13

You have the privilege of hindsight and thousands of years' benefit. The Abraham Covenant is recorded in two parts between chapters 12 to 17 of Genesis. Abraham wasn't thinking about spirituality when he asked the LORD for a child to pass on his possessions. All of that spirituality stuff came about later. Abraham was only asking for a physical child not a spiritual one. The first problem that he was confronted with was a child from a slave (Hagar) and one freeborn (Isaac.) But this was later in their lives. At least a decade later. Abe didn't even know what "spiritual" meant for he existed on a material plane. There was no concept to Abraham of spiritual when Ishmael was born, not even the idea of bondage to freeborn concepts.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

That world and this land are the same promise Gen 17:8

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Saul was able to reason out ideas of bondage and freeborn and physical and spiritual through study of the Hebrew Scripture (Genesis to Malachi - although the order is different in an actual Hebrew bible), He had the whole counsel of Scripture to do this for the first writings of the Hebrew Bible did not come until God set finger to stone and Moses later of pen to parchment some 400 years later on. And for over 400 years from the beginning of God's Promises to Abraham to Moses was Isaac, then Jacob, then the twelve sons of Jacob, and then to over 4 million Jews who departed Egypt led by Moses to where? Their only foresight was to a place where Moses told Pharaoh that he wanted to take them so they could worship.

2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.
3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
Exodus 5:2–3.

That's all the Hebrews knew. Moses was taking "us" into the wilderness, and it would take us three days' worth of journeying. Israel of twelve tribes and over 4 million including children would go on for three days, stop, pitch tents and worship the LORD. Do you know what over four million Hebrews looks like from an airplane? Balaam saw it from up a high mountain in Numbers. Four million filled the Jordan valley from end to end. At this time Israel walked by sight not by faith. There was no "faith" The Hebrews trusted Moses only as far as they could throw him. But from your perspective thousands of years later you have the whole WRITTEN counsel of God and can NOW perceive the spiritual aspect of the Abraham Covenant. It was all about having a physical son to inherit Abraham's possessions and carry his name forward. There was nothing in Abraham's mind about ONE spiritual person in which all the Promises would rest. In his mind it was about one physical person in which the promises would rest: Isaac.

And God told Abraham in chapter 15 of Genesis exactly what his borders would look like. All he knew was physical borders and Isaac would be the one to manage the land. That was his expectation. How could this be realized if God told him his seed was going to be in a strange land and afflicted?

 

[brightfame52]

You have the privilege of hindsight and thousands of years' benefit. The Abraham Covenant is recorded in two parts between chapters 12 to 17 of Genesis. Abraham wasn't thinking about spirituality when he asked the LORD for a child to pass on his possessions. All of that spirituality stuff came about later. Abraham was only asking for a physical child not a spiritual one. The first problem that he was confronted with was a child from a slave (Hagar) and one freeborn (Isaac.) But this was later in their lives. At least a decade later. Abe didn't even know what "spiritual" meant for he existed on a material plane. There was no concept to Abraham of spiritual when Ishmael was born, not even the idea of bondage to freeborn concepts.

Saul was able to reason out ideas of bondage and freeborn and physical and spiritual through study of the Hebrew Scripture (Genesis to Malachi - although the order is different in an actual Hebrew bible), He had the whole counsel of Scripture to do this for the first writings of the Hebrew Bible did not come until God set finger to stone and Moses later of pen to parchment some 400 years later on. And for over 400 years from the beginning of God's Promises to Abraham to Moses was Isaac, then Jacob, then the twelve sons of Jacob, and then to over 4 million Jews who departed Egypt led by Moses to where? Their only foresight was to a place where Moses told Pharaoh that he wanted to take them so they could worship.

2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.
3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
Exodus 5:2–3.

That's all the Hebrews knew. Moses was taking "us" into the wilderness, and it would take us three days' worth of journeying. Israel of twelve tribes and over 4 million including children would go on for three days, stop, pitch tents and worship the LORD. Do you know what over four million Hebrews looks like from an airplane? Balaam saw it from up a high mountain in Numbers. Four million filled the Jordan valley from end to end. At this time Israel walked by sight not by faith. There was no "faith" The Hebrews trusted Moses only as far as they could throw him. But from your perspective thousands of years later you have the whole WRITTEN counsel of God and can NOW perceive the spiritual aspect of the Abraham Covenant. It was all about having a physical son to inherit Abraham's possessions and carry his name forward. There was nothing in Abraham's mind about ONE spiritual person in which all the Promises would rest. In his mind it was about one physical person in which the promises would rest: Isaac.

And God told Abraham in chapter 15 of Genesis exactly what his borders would look like. All he knew was physical borders and Isaac would be the one to manage the land. That was his expectation. How could this be realized if God told him his seed was going to be in a strange land and afflicted?
View attachment 1202

jewish fables,
The Abrahamic Covenant is primarily Spiritual and for a Spiritual Seed, though in subordination to the Spiritual aspect, there were some promises made to Abes physical seed, like the temporary occupation of the physical land of canaan, yet that aspect had conditions attached to it for them to continue in that land, but the primary and spiritual promises, the Land was heavenly, the New Redeemed world for all the children of God. Its the world God told Abraham he was heir of Rom 4:13

 

[brightfame52]

You have the privilege of hindsight and thousands of years' benefit. The Abraham Covenant is recorded in two parts between chapters 12 to 17 of Genesis. Abraham wasn't thinking about spirituality when he asked the LORD for a child to pass on his possessions. All of that spirituality stuff came about later. Abraham was only asking for a physical child not a spiritual one. The first problem that he was confronted with was a child from a slave (Hagar) and one freeborn (Isaac.) But this was later in their lives. At least a decade later. Abe didn't even know what "spiritual" meant for he existed on a material plane. There was no concept to Abraham of spiritual when Ishmael was born, not even the idea of bondage to freeborn concepts.

Saul was able to reason out ideas of bondage and freeborn and physical and spiritual through study of the Hebrew Scripture (Genesis to Malachi - although the order is different in an actual Hebrew bible), He had the whole counsel of Scripture to do this for the first writings of the Hebrew Bible did not come until God set finger to stone and Moses later of pen to parchment some 400 years later on. And for over 400 years from the beginning of God's Promises to Abraham to Moses was Isaac, then Jacob, then the twelve sons of Jacob, and then to over 4 million Jews who departed Egypt led by Moses to where? Their only foresight was to a place where Moses told Pharaoh that he wanted to take them so they could worship.

2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.
3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.
Exodus 5:2–3.

That's all the Hebrews knew. Moses was taking "us" into the wilderness, and it would take us three days' worth of journeying. Israel of twelve tribes and over 4 million including children would go on for three days, stop, pitch tents and worship the LORD. Do you know what over four million Hebrews looks like from an airplane? Balaam saw it from up a high mountain in Numbers. Four million filled the Jordan valley from end to end. At this time Israel walked by sight not by faith. There was no "faith" The Hebrews trusted Moses only as far as they could throw him. But from your perspective thousands of years later you have the whole WRITTEN counsel of God and can NOW perceive the spiritual aspect of the Abraham Covenant. It was all about having a physical son to inherit Abraham's possessions and carry his name forward. There was nothing in Abraham's mind about ONE spiritual person in which all the Promises would rest. In his mind it was about one physical person in which the promises would rest: Isaac.

And God told Abraham in chapter 15 of Genesis exactly what his borders would look like. All he knew was physical borders and Isaac would be the one to manage the land. That was his expectation. How could this be realized if God told him his seed was going to be in a strange land and afflicted?
View attachment 1202

God has already fulfilled the physical national land promise to Israel, Abes physical seed,
Joshua 21 43-45

43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
To say God did not fulfill His promises, when He did, is total heresy and blasphemy

 

[brightfame52]

Also see Nehemiah 9:7-8, 23

7 Thou art the Lord the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;

8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:

23 Their children also multipliedst thou as the stars of heaven, and broughtest them into the land, concerning which thou hadst promised to their fathers, that they should go in to possess it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That was Isaac, yet he pictured Abrahams Spiritual Seed versus his carnal seed that you glory in Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Note: The brethren here are any believer in Christ regardless of ethnicity !

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Abraham's Covenant Promises was given to Abraham who asked for an heir and God gave him an heir: Isaac.
But Abraham died not seeing the fulfillment of God's promises that passed to Isaac. Then God intervened and cause the inheritance to pass to Jacob. Later, we see Jacob/Israel passing on blessings to his 12 sons plus one more and all of these inheritors were physical and there is no mention by any of the forefathers that there was a spiritual seed because God separated Abraham from the rest of the Hamites and Japhetite's and with circumcision created an ethnicity (seed of the woman) distinct from the non-Hebrew ethnicity (seed of the serpent) and from then on two ethnicities were existing side by side. One Gentile, the other Hebrew. And it was the Hebrews who were the recipients and possessors of ALL God's Promises:

4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 9:4–5.

Even Saul, the rabbi and Pharisee that he was and knew the Scripture that Israel possessed the covenants and NOT the Gentiles. He knew there is no covenant in the Hebrew Scripture between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles and that any interpretation of the Scripture that seeks to add Gentiles to any of the covenants is a liar, and no liar has eternal life in them.

Read the above passage from Romans 9. Do you see who has the covenants and who doesn't?

I do.

According to Saul Israel possesses all the parts to salvation. Only Israel.
The Jews. The ethnic Jews who are the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Only Israel.

 

[brightfame52]

Abraham's Covenant Promises was given to Abraham who asked for an heir and God gave him an heir: Isaac.
But Abraham died not seeing the fulfillment of God's promises that passed to Isaac. Then God intervened and cause the inheritance to pass to Jacob. Later, we see Jacob/Israel passing on blessings to his 12 sons plus one more and all of these inheritors were physical and there is no mention by any of the forefathers that there was a spiritual seed because God separated Abraham from the rest of the Hamites and Japhetite's and with circumcision created an ethnicity (seed of the woman) distinct from the non-Hebrew ethnicity (seed of the serpent) and from then on two ethnicities were existing side by side. One Gentile, the other Hebrew. And it was the Hebrews who were the recipients and possessors of ALL God's Promises:

4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 9:4–5.

Even Saul, the rabbi and Pharisee that he was and knew the Scripture that Israel possessed the covenants and NOT the Gentiles. He knew there is no covenant in the Hebrew Scripture between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles and that any interpretation of the Scripture that seeks to add Gentiles to any of the covenants is a liar, and no liar has eternal life in them.

Read the above passage from Romans 9. Do you see who has the covenants and who doesn't?

I do.

According to Saul Israel possesses all the parts to salvation. Only Israel.
The Jews. The ethnic Jews who are the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Only Israel.

That was Isaac, yet he pictured Abrahams Spiritual Seed versus his carnal seed that you glory in Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Note: The brethren here are any believer in Christ regardless of ethnicity !

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[brightfame52]

When God promised Abraham the land here it was Spiritual and Heavenly not the earthly land of palenstine which was merely a picture and type, which Abraham understood,

Gen 13:14-16

14 And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Abraham understood this to be a spiritual heavenly land Heb 11:8-10,13-16

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country/land from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country/land, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[dwight92070]

@dwight92070



Were you elect/chosen in Him b4 you put faith in Him ?

Please explain what difference that would make NOW, i.e. to know whether I was chosen in Him before I put faith in Him. I'll answer that for you. It makes zero difference.

God has foreknowledge and He knew who would put faith in Him and who would not.

1 Peter 1:1-2 " ... who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, ..."

 

[civic]

Please explain what difference that would make NOW, i.e. to know whether I was chosen in Him before I put faith in Him. I'll answer that for you. It makes zero difference.

God has foreknowledge and He knew who would put faith in Him and who would not.

1 Peter 1:1-2 " ... who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, ..."

ditto

 

[brightfame52]

Please explain what difference that would make NOW, i.e. to know whether I was chosen in Him before I put faith in Him. I'll answer that for you. It makes zero difference.

God has foreknowledge and He knew who would put faith in Him and who would not.

1 Peter 1:1-2 " ... who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, ..."

Why explain anything, please answer the question and stop deflecting

 

[dwight92070]

You're the one deflecting my answer, because it doesn't fit into your false doctrine. God knew who would put their faith in Him, and according to that foreknowledge, He chose or elected those of us who would put our faith in Jesus. As I have said before, God chose Jesus first and any who have freely chosen to put their faith in Him, are also chosen and elect. He gave us free will to choose Him or to reject Him.

 

[brightfame52]

@dwight92070

God knew who would put their faith in Him, and according to that foreknowledge, He chose or elected those of us who would put our faith in Jesus.

False comment

 

[jeremiah1five]

jewish fables,
The Abrahamic Covenant is primarily Spiritual and for a Spiritual Seed, though in subordination to the Spiritual aspect, there were some promises made to Abes physical seed, like the temporary occupation of the physical land of canaan, yet that aspect had conditions attached to it for them to continue in that land, but the primary and spiritual promises, the Land was heavenly, the New Redeemed world for all the children of God. Its the world God told Abraham he was heir of Rom 4:13

The Abraham Covenant was material and physical. Material and physical in both a first-born son (Isaac) and material and physical in the land God promised Abraham's seed, a people historically known as the children of Israel of twelve tribes. God never made any such promises or any other promises to non-Hebrew, non-Abraham Gentiles. None. There is nothing in Scripture and the theology and belief that now Gentiles are a part of God's salvation doesn't rest on the biblical record but on erroneous interpretations of the Hebrew Scripture, using the New Testament as basis for such interpretation but without having Scriptural foundation in the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and the Prophets' writings.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God has already fulfilled the physical national land promise to Israel, Abes physical seed,
Joshua 21 43-45

43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
To say God did not fulfill His promises, when He did, is total heresy and blasphemy

God may have given land promised to the fathers, but He hasn't yet given land promised to Abraham:

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. Genesis 15:18–21.

The land God promised Abraham and his seed is marked out below. And for a fact Israel - the Jewish people in general - have never possessed this Promised Land marked out by the borders delineated by Genesis 15:18-21.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That was Isaac, yet he pictured Abrahams Spiritual Seed versus his carnal seed that you glory in Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Note: The brethren here are any believer in Christ regardless of ethnicity !

Nope. Saul makes a distinction between those born to Isaac and Ishmael. And knowing which father one is born from meant they had to know their genealogy. And that will play an important role as it has through the centuries. One is either born from a slave, or the other is born from a freeman. Obviously, Saul searched or knew whether he was born from Ishmael's stock or from Isaac's and this meant knowing genealogy. To the Jews genealogy is important. It is used to identify Israel's Messiah back in the first c3entury, and it will bge used to identify Him when He returns - plus other identifiers found in Scripture.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.