Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God (=YHWH) are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:4)

[Fred]

So let me then be blunt in answering your query Fred.

IAW 2 Cor 11:4 and other verses...

Yes, I admit my Jesus is different than yours although not different from Paul's Jesus, the Christ.

And you might have a different spirit within you than mine although my Spirit of the Father is not different than Paul's Spirit of the same Father. He and I have the same the Spirit of Christ within us that enables us to possess this same Spirit of God.

Yes, you preach a different Christ as you make him more that our lord and Savior from his Father. And Paul would agree with me.

And yes you preach a quite different message/gospel of salvation as you believe Jesus is actually the one true God who spoke to himself in the Garden and actually died as God on the Cross and then raised himself up from death, as in no life. Paul and I disagree Fred. Paul would be so angry with you that you believe a gospel, a Christ from a deceiving spirit of this world.

See, I answered your OP.

I'm not reading your longwinded mess.
Get to the point.

 

[synergy]

Nehemiah 9:27 doesn’t contradict the verses you sent me.

Read scripture through the eyes of a unitarian, Jesus, and you’ll see that.

Reading scripture through the eyes of a unitarian makes me conflate physical saving with spiritual saving.
Reading scripture through the eyes of a unitarian makes me conflate "deliverers" with Savior.
Reading scripture through the eyes of a unitarian makes me believe that there are multiple "deliverers". Notice the plurality of "deliverers". Are you saying that Unitarianism has multiple Saviors. Ok, line them up.

 

[Matthias]

Reading scripture through the eyes of a unitarian makes me conflate physical saving with spiritual saving.
Reading scripture through the eyes of a unitarian makes me conflate "deliverers" with Savior.
Reading scripture through the eyes of a unitarian makes me believe that there are multiple "deliverers". Notice the plurality of "deliverers". Are you saying that Unitarianism has multiple Saviors. Ok, line them up.

I’m saying that you aren’t reading scripture through the eyes of Jesus. You’re reading scripture through the eyes of men who created the Trinity.

 

[synergy]

I’m saying that you aren’t reading scripture through the eyes of Jesus. You’re reading scripture through the eyes of men who created the Trinity.

I just read Neh 9:27 where it says "deliverers" that you are conflating with Savior. So where are they? Where are your line of Saviors? Cough them up. I'm waiting....

 

[Diserner]

Everything else is idols.

The things you attribute to Jesus, if you maintain Biblical descriptions, all make him formally and definitionally an idol.

You grant yourself "special exemptions" in your mind somehow that create a doublespeak in thinking that allows you to give these things to Jesus.

The Bible, however, does not allow it.

Jesus' God is the Truine God—he honored the Spirit of God, created a grammatically distinct personage separate from the Father, as I clearly showed and illustrated to you, which you most apparently went into denial and turned a blind eye too, creating some special exemption to straight forward meaning and grammar.

Jesus also liberally applied to himself divine attributes, which you and your ilk constantly explain away and water down in a bizarre la-la land of logical incongruity allowing some strange mongrel "almost-god" with actual divine attributes.

That's ludicrous in every way, and with any fair logical thought for even one minute, you could readily understand why I called it a spiritual blindness to begin with.

Logic makes no difference here—and it's the same with all false doctrines—presuppositions override the meaning no matter what, so no set of words can say what the proponent does not want to be true, they are not allowed to. Somewhere pride gets in, false religion, stubbornness, and strongholds are not built in a day.

And this is why truth comes by revelation, and I have met the Truine God and experienced him.

It is no set of dry facts I juggled in my brain until my powerful intellect pumped up the truth.

Which puts me in a greater sense of responsibility, and before God I have tried to fulfill it.

 

[Matthias]

I just read Neh 9:27 where it says "deliverers" that you are conflating with Savior.

Read Nehemiah 9:27 where it says “saviors”.

So where are they? Where are your line of Saviors? Cough them up. I'm waiting....

Nehemiah 9:27 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Matthias]

The things you attribute to Jesus, if you maintain Biblical descriptions, all make him formally and definitionally an idol.

No. Using the Law of Agency and reading scripture through his eyes makes him the Messiah sent by his God.

You grant yourself "special exemptions" in your mind somehow that create a doublespeak in thinking that allows you to give these things to Jesus.

The Bible, however, does not allow it.

Jesus' God is the Truine God—he honored the Spirit of God, created a grammatically distinct personage separate from the Father, as I clearly showed and illustrated to you, which you most apparently went into denial and turned a blind eye too, creating some special exemption to straight forward meaning and grammar.

Jesus also liberally applied to himself divine attributes, which you and your ilk constantly explain away and water down in a bizarre la-la land of logical incongruity allowing some strange mongrel "almost-god" with actual divine attributes.

That's ludicrous in every way, and with any fair logical thought for even one minute, you could readily understand why I called it a spiritual blindness to begin with.

Logic makes no difference here—and it's the same with all false doctrines—presuppositions override the meaning no matter what, so no set of words can say what the proponent does not want to be true, they are not allowed to. Somewhere pride gets in, false religion, stubbornness, and strongholds are not built in a day.

And this is why truth comes by revelation, and I have met the Truine God and experienced him.

It is no set of dry facts I juggled in my brain until my powerful intellect pumped up the truth.

Which puts me in a greater sense of responsibility, and before God I have tried to fulfill it.

Jesus’ God isn’t the Triune God.

Listen to Jesus. He tells us precisely who his God is.

He tells you that his God is my God.

 

[Fred]

Using the Law of Agency

Your false god in denial of Jesus being God/YHWH.

The concept of Agency does not apply at all in the area of prayer that is directly rendered unto the Lord Jesus since one can just as easily render prayer directly unto the Father. An agent would be a party when the other party is not there and/or cannot be reached. An "agent" is therefore unnecessary.

 

[Matthias]

Lord have mercy. They’re so far gone that they’re calling the Father a false god.

 

[synergy]

Read Nehemiah 9:27 where it says “saviors”.

Nehemiah 9:27 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

The deliverance that Neh 9:27 is talking about is a deliverance "out of the hand of their enemies". It's a physical deliverance.

If you continue to insist that it's a spiritual deliverance then who are your spiritual Saviors? Cough them up. Let's see them. Put your money where your mouth is. Your reluctance to answer my simple question speaks volumes.

 

[Fred]

Lord have mercy.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/worshipping-the-son.552/page-23#post-17134

They’re so far gone

It's your teaching about not worshiping Jesus as deity that is wacky.

that they’re calling the Father a false god.

Strawman.
Lie.

 

[Matthias]

The deliverance that Neh 9:27 is talking about is a deliverance "out of the hand of their enemies". It's a physical deliverance.

Did you not see the word saviors?

Deliverers = saviors

Delivering = saving

If you continue to insist that it's a spiritual deliverance then who are your spiritual Saviors? Cough them up. Let's see them. Put your money where your mouth is.

Yahweh has historically sent men to save his people when they went astray.

Yahweh has in these last days sent a man, Jesus of Nazareth, to save his people.

Jesus, whom Yahweh has sent, will save his people; it will be a physical saving, but not only a physical saving. It will also be a spiritual saving.

 

[Matthias]

Lord have mercy. They’re so far gone that they’re calling the Father a false god.

The Father is my God. They know it. When they say my God is a false god, they are saying that the Father is a false god.

Satan has them. Lock. Stock. And barrel.

 

[synergy]

Did you not see the word saviors?

Delivering = saving



Yahweh has historically sent men to save his people when they went astray.

Yahweh has in these last days sent a man, Jesus of Nazareth, to save his people.

Jesus, whom Yahweh has sent, will save his people; it will be a physical saving, but not only a physical saving. It will also be a spiritual saving.

So you continue to insist that there are multiple Spiritual Saviors in Unitarianism.
What do I have to do to get even a partial list of those Spiritual Saviors of yours?
Do I have to join your group and only after initiation will that veiled information be given to me?
Why are you so reluctant to expose that list?

 

[Matthias]

So you continue to insist that there are multiple Spiritual Saviors in Unitarianism.
What do I have to do to get even a partial list of those Spiritual Saviors of yours?

The full list has been right in front of your closed eyes.

Yahweh and Jesus.

Do I have to join your group and only after initiation will that veiled information be given to me?

All you have to do is read scripture through the eyes of Jesus.

What are you afraid of?

I’m not afraid.

 

[Matthias]

Trinitarians tell us that Jesus saves. They’re right. He does.

Trinitarians don’t tell us that the Trinity saves, and for good reason. The Trinity doesn’t save.

 

[synergy]

The full list has been right in front of your closed eyes.

Yahweh and Jesus.

Good.
Now since it's only God who spiritually saves then Yahweh & Jesus must be God. To say otherwise is to declare the Bible as false.
There you have it: Jesus is God, the Uncreated Word of God made flesh as Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

Good.

Yahweh and Jesus.

Now since it's only God who saves then Yahweh, Jesus must be God.

Jesus is God, functionally. Jesus is not Yahweh. Yahweh is Jesus’ God.

To say otherwise is to declare the Bible as false.
There you have it: Jesus is God, the Uncreated Word of God made flesh as Jesus.

The Bible isn’t false.

What is false is reading the Bible through the eyes of the makers of the Trinity rather than through the eyes of Jesus.

Jesus is the word of Yahweh made flesh.

 

[synergy]

Yahweh and Jesus.

Jesus is God, functionally. Jesus is not Yahweh. Yahweh is Jesus’ God.

So Jesus is God but only in a functional manner? Please forward Bible verses that explicitly say that.

Jesus is the word of Yahweh made flesh.

If you have a problem with the Apostles using the Greek word Θεὸς (God) instead of Yahweh then you can register your grievance at your nearest Church.

 

[Matthias]

So Jesus is God but only in a functional manner? Please forward Bible verses that explicitly say that.

I gave you the information you needed about the Jewish Law of Agency. You threw it away.

What are you left with? A deity who isn’t the Messiah’s God.

A deity who isn’t the Messiah’s God is an idol.

If you have a problem with the Apostles using the Greek word Θεὸς (God) instead of Yahweh then you can register your grievance at your nearest Church.

I have no complaint. Yahweh is the one God. Yahweh is the God of Jesus. The God of Jesus is the God of the Apostles. The God of Jesus and the Apostles is the God of me.