Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God (=YHWH) are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:4)

Fred said:
The Jesus Paul preached is Lord (=YHWH
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Here is a basic error. There are dozens of lords in Scripture and Jesus is one. The name of God is YHWH, not Jesus. Every Epistle mentioned only God the Father. The simple reason is, there is no other true God of the Bible. As a trinitarian, you must deny the Jesus of Scripture, as you claim another Jesus died on the cross.

Paul even tells us in Ephesians 3 that God is the father of Jesus.

May grace and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus, the Anointed One, surround you. First, I thank my God through Jesus the Anointed for all of you. Romans 1:7-8

I pray that God our Father and the Lord Jesus, the Anointed One, will shower you with grace and peace. 1 Cor 1:3

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
2 Corinthians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Ephesians 1:2

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philippians 1:2

May God our Father give you grace and peace. Colossians 1:2

We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 & 2 Thessalonians 1:1

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace.1 & 2 Timothy 1:2

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.
Titus 1:4

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philemon 1:3

For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son. Hebrews 1:5

Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring. James 1:27

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. 1 Peter 1:2

when he received honor and glory from God the Father. 2 Peter 1:17

We proclaim ... our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 (NOTE: Again no reference to the HS)

Grace, mercy, and peace, which come from God the Father. 2 John 1:3

He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. Revelation 1:6
 
Behold said:
The Gospel is not..."believe that Jesus is God, and you shall be saved".
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From the OP:

Romans 10:8, 13 (kēryssō)
(8) But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching...
(13) For whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. (cf. Joel 2:32; 3:5 LXX)
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/prayer.114/#post-4761

Believing Jesus is God is a major component of the gospel.
 
Fred said:
To a point, but one has to begin with who God really is.
Humanly speaking one can be doing what so many feel are good and nice things but they still don't have the correct Jesus that Paul and Peter preached about.
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Jesus is the exact image of God's nature, so if what someone is doing is not in accordance with God's nature, then they do not have either the right YHVH or the right Jesus, but if what they are doing is in accordance with His nature, then they do have the right YHVH and the right Jesus regardless of whether they recognize that they do with their mouth.
 
Soyeong said:
if what they are doing is in accordance with His nature, then they do have the right YHVH and the right Jesus regardless of whether they recognize that they do with their mouth.
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They can't deny Jesus is YHWH. If they do then they do not have the Holy Spirit and are therefore not Christians (Romans 8:9).
 
Fred said:
From the OP:


Believing Jesus is God is a major component of the gospel.
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The Cross is the Gospel.

No Cross = No Gospel.


Notice what Paul is not talking about in these verses.
See, if the Trinity was a part of the Gospel, the Paul would preach it.
He would make it very important in his 13 Epistles.
Its not.
-
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
ASV
For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
AMP
for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].
AMPC
For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you except Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and Him crucified.
BRG
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
CSB
I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
CEB
I had made up my mind not to think about anything while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and to preach him as crucified.
CJB
for I had decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Yeshua the Messiah, and even him only as someone who had been executed on a stake as a criminal.
CEV
In fact, while I was with you, I made up my mind to speak only about Jesus Christ, who had been nailed to a cross.
DARBY
For I did not judge [it well] to know anything among you save Jesus Christ, and *him* crucified.
DLNT
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ— and this One having been crucified.
DRA
For I judged not myself to know anything among you, but Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
ERV
I decided that while I was with you I would forget about everything except Jesus Christ and his death on the cross.
EHV
For I had no intention of knowing anything among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
 
Wrangler said:
Incorrect. There are dozens of lords in the OT. The use of the word "lord" does not all refer to the same lord.
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You still don't get it.

When YHWH is used in the OT and the same passage is quoted in the NT then it still refers to YHWH.
 
Behold said:
The Cross is the Gospel.

No Cross = No Gospel.
Click to expand...


I never affirmed otherwise.

I wrote the fact that the Lord Jesus is God is a major component of the gospel. I didn't say it was all of it.

By the way, you are dodging Romans 10:8 and Romans 10:13. This is because the gospel Paul preached (Romans 10:8) included the fact that Jesus is YHWH (Romans 10:13).

In fact, the very same passage you quoted (1 Corinthians 2:2) is just three verses later where Paul also affirmed that the "Lord" (YHWH) of the Old Testament (Jeremiah 9:24) is used in reference to Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:31).
 
Wrangler said:
Here is a basic error. There are dozens of lords in Scripture and Jesus is one.
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Paul acknowledges many are "called" Lord, but that only ONE really IS Lord:

5 And even if the majority believes there are many so-called gods in heaven and on earth (certainly many worship such “gods” and “lords”), this is not our view. 6 For us, there is one God, the Father who is the ultimate source of all things and the goal of our lives. And there is one Lord—Jesus the Anointed, the Liberating King; through Him all things were created, and by Him we are redeemed. — VOICE

If Paul plainly says here there is ONE Lord, does that mean the Father is not Lord?

Does that mean by plain deduction every reference to "Lord" in Scripture is to Jesus?

Last I checked ONE does not ever mean TWO.

Shouldn't Paul have said:

"And there are two Lords."

?
 
dizerner said:
Paul acknowledges many are "called" Lord, but that only ONE really IS Lord:
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No. That is not what Paul is saying at all. "For us" there is one God, the Father. "For us" there is one Lord, who is Jesus.

Trinitarians have idolatry on top of idolatry. There is nothing special about the words 'lord' or 'god.' Other than to keep straight that capital LORD applies exclusively to the Father, as well as the one true God as well as the sole Creator.

This Creator created through his anointed one. This does not make his anointed one the Creator.

For others, there continue to be many lords and gods as Paul says in 1 COR 8:5. It is untrue to say there are not real gods and lords besides Jesus and his father YHWH. In Harry Potter, there is Lord Voldemort. In Star Wars, there is Lord Vader. In England, there is Lord Cornwallis. But these real lords in their stories are not the master of those who follow Christ.

It really is simple. One does not have to appeal to mysticism to make sense of it.
 
Fred said:
They can't deny Jesus is YHWH. If they do then they do not have the Holy Spirit and are therefore not Christians (Romans 8:9).
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Our actions speak louder than our words. The way to live in a way that expresses belief in YHVH by acting in accordance with His nature his the same as the way to live in a way that expresses belief in Jesus by acting in accordance with his nature, so someone who does that is living in a way that expresses the belief that Jesus is YHVH regardless of whether they recognize with their mouth that that is what they are doing.
 
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dizerner said:
If Paul plainly says here there is ONE Lord, does that mean the Father is not Lord?
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Fred said:
I hope Wrangler finally answers this question.
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I've answered this question perhaps a dozen times already.

We are not worthy to approach God YHWH unless it is through our Mediator Christ who is our lord. Of course, God the Father is a lord but he chose to put an intercessor between him and us - for our own good. Hierarchy. See 1 Cor 11:3, 15: 21-27.
 

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