Thomas... My Lord and my God

Further evidence that God is not a singular entity is the usage of the Hebrew word "echad" when referring to God in the Shema. You see, there are two words in Hebrew that mean "one". "Echad" is not the only Hebrew word for "one"; there is also "yachid". While "yachid" means "one" in the singular sense of being alone or unique, "echad" is used for a unified or compound "one," such as a married couple becoming "one flesh,". And "echad" is the word that is used to describe God, not "yachid".
Trinitarians piece together statements that are scattered all over the Bible. They basically use bits and pieces of words and half verses along with their own human reasoning, imagination, speculation and assumptions as they pick one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here, and a clue there, and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human thinking.
If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.
 
You claim this initially about every passage with speaks of the deity of Jesus Christ. Yet you are proven wrong about every one of them. How sad for you.

In the Psalm which Jesus quotes, the writer states that the Creator God (אֱלֹהִ֣ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)(which is the word that in Greek is translated "theos")) stands in the midst of the gods (אֱלֹהִ֣ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)). We know there is only one Creator God, yet the same word is used for the lesser gods among whom He stands, and then all mankind is called gods (אֱלֹהִ֣ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)).

Jesus was claiming equality with the one creator God, the only truly divine being that exists. The Pharisees accused Him of claiming equality with God (which was true, and therefore (in His case) alone not a sin). But they did not know it was truth, otherwise they would not have sought to kill Him.

The people who used the word "theos" for Paul probably thought he was God, but we know that Paul was/is not God, so it is translated as "a god". Herod is called "theos", and when he did not give the glory to the real God, he was struck down by Him. The same goes for the other places where the term is used.

The interpretation of each usage of a word is reliant upon the context of that usage, and they are not all alike.

Worthless accusations that flow from your perverted understanding of God's Scripture.
I'm not proven wrong just because you don't see the Scriptures the way I and God do. Trinitarians piece together statements that are scattered all over the Bible. They basically use bits and pieces of words and half verses along with their own human reasoning, imagination, speculation and assumptions as they pick one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here, and a clue there, and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human thinking. This is why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Such an important subject matter like the Trinity and the Bible is silent on all of it.

If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...

Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.

The Epistles would have writings like...

Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.

And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.
 
No man is an island. No verse is an island. You are trying to control the argument by avoiding the context.
No.... look back and see the verse that was under discussion.
I do not remember you sharing anything about metalepsis. The AI does not even have anything related to John's gospel. Metalepsis is used despite any of your failure to understand allegory. I have no idea what you mean by your beloved disciple point either. It has no significance about rejecting who Jesus is. (I would have worded this differently but I missed that you had sought AI for your interpretation of scripture.)

You might as well just start with John 2 and forget John 1 totally.
I didn't share anything about metalepsis --- YOU DID previously with me.
If you google metalepsis in John 1 --- you will get what I posted + more. This is metalepsis from Webster's: a figure of speech consisting in the substitution by metonymy of one figurative sense for another. Now maybe within that definition you can explain to the readers on this forum exactly how metalepsis is used in John 1. So, we have the figure metalepsis AND allegory in John 1:1 --- allegory (Webster's) - the expression of truths or generalizations about human existence by means of symbolic figures and actions; also: an instance (as in literature or painting) of such expression; 2. a symbolic representation.

Now maybe within those definitions you can explain to the readers on this forum exactly how metalepsis and allegory is used in John 1. It would be helpful to see how you are applying these figures.

Nope, John 1 is important in that we can see how Jesus humanly embodied God's word/wisdom and realize that is how he truly reflected and showed us the Father, aka God.
 
No.... look back and see the verse that was under discussion.

I didn't share anything about metalepsis --- YOU DID previously with me.
If you google metalepsis in John 1 --- you will get what I posted + more. This is metalepsis from Webster's: a figure of speech consisting in the substitution by metonymy of one figurative sense for another. Now maybe within that definition you can explain to the readers on this forum exactly how metalepsis is used in John 1. So, we have the figure metalepsis AND allegory in John 1:1 --- allegory (Webster's) - the expression of truths or generalizations about human existence by means of symbolic figures and actions; also: an instance (as in literature or painting) of such expression; 2. a symbolic representation.
I have explained it in the forum. I know that such allegory can be a confusing topic, especially to hyperliteralists. Metalepsis in this case takes the sense of logos from Philo and Greek Philosophy that shows the work of logos in creation of the world. Philo also built his idea off of Proverbs 8. John takes that logos as creator and says that creator became flesh as Jesus.

Now maybe within those definitions you can explain to the readers on this forum exactly how metalepsis and allegory is used in John 1. It would be helpful to see how you are applying these figures.

Nope, John 1 is important in that we can see how Jesus humanly embodied God's word/wisdom and realize that is how he truly reflected and showed us the Father, aka God.
You flatten the passage to be totally insignificant.
 
Post the entire Bible if you wish. John 17:3 is still there and not changing nor bending to your will. Words have meaning and only refers to being alone, sole, single, only. So we have John 17:3 explicitly ruling out the trinity and placing the Father as the one and only true God. Yes, it's true, the trinity is a fake doctrine concerning God. Why would you need to define God using scattered verse as though your doctrine is a tertiary side doctrine? With something as important as who God is, the prophets spoke of God directly, explicitly, and clearly as a single person.
LOL

You show you do not consider all of scripture in forming your view

You also show that you ignore uses of only that contradict your view

Jude 4 (NASB 95) — 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

For who can deny the Father as Lord or as master

and that you deny a multitude of New Testament verses as well as a host of Old Testament verses.


KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh

That Yahweh was sent by Yahweh

Genesis 22:15–18 (NASB95) — 15 Then the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven, 16 and said, “By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

Genesis 31:11–13 (NASB95) — 11 “Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob,’ and I said, ‘Here I am.’ 12 “He said, ‘Lift up now your eyes and see that all the male goats which are mating are striped, speckled, and mottled; for I have seen all that Laban has been doing to you. 13 ‘I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar, where you made a vow to Me; now arise, leave this land, and return to the land of your birth.’ ”

The angel of God declared himself the God of Bethel the God jacob made a vow to having also identified as Yahweh

Genesis 28:18–22 (NASB 95) — 18 So Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on its top. 19 He called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz. 20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me on this journey that I take, and will give me food to eat and garments to wear, 21 and I return to my father’s house in safety, then the LORD (yahweh) will be my God. 22 This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”

Yahweh sends Yahweh

Zechariah 2:8–13 (LEB) — 8 For thus said Yahweh of hosts, after glory he sent me against the nations plundering you: Truly, the one touching you is touching the apple of his eye. 9 “Yes, look! I am going to wave my hand against them, and they will become plunder for their servants, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh on that day, and they will be my people, and I will dwell in your midst. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you. 12 And Yahweh will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land, and he will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be silent, all people, before Yahweh, for he is roused from his holy dwelling.”

Yahweh speaks of Yahweh in the 3rd person



Exodus 19:20–25 (LEB) — 20 And Yahweh went down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain, and Yahweh called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 And Yahweh said to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, lest they break through to Yahweh to see and many from them fall. 22 And even the priests who come near Yahweh must consecrate themselves, lest Yahweh break out against them.” 23 And Moses said to Yahweh, “The people are not able to go up to Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, saying, ‘Set limits around the mountain and consecrate it.’ ” 24 And Yahweh said to him, “Go, go down, and come up, you and Aaron with you and the priests, but the people must not break through to go up to Yahweh, lest he break out against them.” 25 And Moses went down to the people, and he told them.

Genesis 19:24 (UASV) — 24 Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven,

Jehovah (yahweh) who was on earth rained down fire from Jehovah (yahweh) in heaven

Jehovah God will make the following strong in Jehovah not in himself refering to the Jehovah he was making them strong in as those who walk in his name

Zechariah 10:6–12 (UASV) — 6 “I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph. I will bring them back because I have compassion on them, and they shall be as though I had not rejected them, for I am Jehovah their God and I will answer them. 7 Then Ephraim shall become like a mighty warrior, and their hearts shall rejoice as if from wine. Their sons shall see it and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in Jehovah. 8 “I will whistle for them and gather them in, for I have redeemed them, and they shall be as numerous as they were before. 9 Though I sow them among the nations, yet in far countries they shall remember me, and with their sons they shall live and return. 10 I will bring them back from the land of Egypt, and gather them from Assyria, and I will bring them to the land of Gilead and to Lebanon, until there is no room for them. 11 And he shall pass through the sea of distress and strike down the waves of the sea, and all the depths of the Nile shall dry up. The pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the scepter of Egypt shall depart. 12 I will make them strong in Jehovah, and they shall walk in his name,” declares Jehovah.
Isaiah 48:12–16 (NASB 95) — 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

God says “you cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live” (Ex 33:20), and yet Hagar (Gen 16:13), Jacob (Gn 32:30), and Moses (Ex 33:11) are said to have “seen God face to face” in view of their confrontation with this angel. God promises that his very presence will be among the Israelites, and yet it is the angel who goes with them (Ex 23:23). The commander of the army of God is given reverence equal to God’s (Jos 5:13–6:2). The angel seems to possess the full authority and character of God.

And there is a lot more
 
That is not entirely accurate. Who does John 1:1 say created all things? Was it not the Logos of God which John 1:14 says became flesh and lived among man (Jesus). Yes, it is God who created all things, and Jesus (the Logos of God) is God.
It's not accurate because he ignores the context of the posted

Isaiah 48:12–16 (NASB95) — 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

Where the speaker is sent by the Lord God, yet he is still I am he, the first and the last, founder of the earth and the spreader out of the heavens.




y
 
LOL

You show you do not consider all of scripture in forming your view

You also show that you ignore uses of only that contradict your view

Jude 4 (NASB 95) — 4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

For who can deny the Father as Lord or as master

and that you deny a multitude of New Testament verses as well as a host of Old Testament verses.


KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh

That Yahweh was sent by Yahweh

Genesis 22:15–18 (NASB95) — 15 Then the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven, 16 and said, “By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

Genesis 31:11–13 (NASB95) — 11 “Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob,’ and I said, ‘Here I am.’ 12 “He said, ‘Lift up now your eyes and see that all the male goats which are mating are striped, speckled, and mottled; for I have seen all that Laban has been doing to you. 13 ‘I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar, where you made a vow to Me; now arise, leave this land, and return to the land of your birth.’ ”

The angel of God declared himself the God of Bethel the God jacob made a vow to having also identified as Yahweh

Genesis 28:18–22 (NASB 95) — 18 So Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on its top. 19 He called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz. 20 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will keep me on this journey that I take, and will give me food to eat and garments to wear, 21 and I return to my father’s house in safety, then the LORD (yahweh) will be my God. 22 This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”

Yahweh sends Yahweh

Zechariah 2:8–13 (LEB) — 8 For thus said Yahweh of hosts, after glory he sent me against the nations plundering you: Truly, the one touching you is touching the apple of his eye. 9 “Yes, look! I am going to wave my hand against them, and they will become plunder for their servants, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for look, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to Yahweh on that day, and they will be my people, and I will dwell in your midst. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you. 12 And Yahweh will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land, and he will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be silent, all people, before Yahweh, for he is roused from his holy dwelling.”

Yahweh speaks of Yahweh in the 3rd person



Exodus 19:20–25 (LEB) — 20 And Yahweh went down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain, and Yahweh called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. 21 And Yahweh said to Moses, “Go down, warn the people, lest they break through to Yahweh to see and many from them fall. 22 And even the priests who come near Yahweh must consecrate themselves, lest Yahweh break out against them.” 23 And Moses said to Yahweh, “The people are not able to go up to Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, saying, ‘Set limits around the mountain and consecrate it.’ ” 24 And Yahweh said to him, “Go, go down, and come up, you and Aaron with you and the priests, but the people must not break through to go up to Yahweh, lest he break out against them.” 25 And Moses went down to the people, and he told them.

Genesis 19:24 (UASV) — 24 Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven,

Jehovah (yahweh) who was on earth rained down fire from Jehovah (yahweh) in heaven

Jehovah God will make the following strong in Jehovah not in himself refering to the Jehovah he was making them strong in as those who walk in his name

Zechariah 10:6–12 (UASV) — 6 “I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph. I will bring them back because I have compassion on them, and they shall be as though I had not rejected them, for I am Jehovah their God and I will answer them. 7 Then Ephraim shall become like a mighty warrior, and their hearts shall rejoice as if from wine. Their sons shall see it and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in Jehovah. 8 “I will whistle for them and gather them in, for I have redeemed them, and they shall be as numerous as they were before. 9 Though I sow them among the nations, yet in far countries they shall remember me, and with their sons they shall live and return. 10 I will bring them back from the land of Egypt, and gather them from Assyria, and I will bring them to the land of Gilead and to Lebanon, until there is no room for them. 11 And he shall pass through the sea of distress and strike down the waves of the sea, and all the depths of the Nile shall dry up. The pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the scepter of Egypt shall depart. 12 I will make them strong in Jehovah, and they shall walk in his name,” declares Jehovah.
Isaiah 48:12–16 (NASB 95) — 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 “Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 “Assemble, all of you, and listen! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 “I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 “Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

God says “you cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live” (Ex 33:20), and yet Hagar (Gen 16:13), Jacob (Gn 32:30), and Moses (Ex 33:11) are said to have “seen God face to face” in view of their confrontation with this angel. God promises that his very presence will be among the Israelites, and yet it is the angel who goes with them (Ex 23:23). The commander of the army of God is given reverence equal to God’s (Jos 5:13–6:2). The angel seems to possess the full authority and character of God.

And there is a lot more
This is called verse padding, normally used when you are trying to overwhelm a discussion with additional information, probably because you cannot disprove the Father is alone the true God. So you burry it and attempt to change the subject and introduce a bunch of whataboutisms.

The angel of the Lord isn't God according to Scripture. As you can see, the LORD speaks and the angel listens. What it does not say is "The LORD spoke to the LORD." There is a speaker (the LORD) and a recipient (the angel) So you can scratch that argument off your list of bad talking points.

Zechariah 1
12Then the angel of the LORD said, “How long, O LORD of Hosts, will You withhold mercy from Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been angry these seventy years?”
13So the LORD spoke kind and comforting words to the angel who was speaking with me.
 
I have explained it in the forum. I know that such allegory can be a confusing topic, especially to hyperliteralists. Metalepsis in this case takes the sense of logos from Philo and Greek Philosophy that shows the work of logos in creation of the world. Philo also built his idea off of Proverbs 8. John takes that logos as creator and says that creator became flesh as Jesus.
I understand figures of speech and how they are used in literature. Yep, I also understand the work of logos in the creation of the world - God spoke and it was so. I understand how logos is personified in the prologue of John and I also understand how God in his wisdom created the world . . . God's wisdom being personified in Proverbs as a 'she'.
OMG.....it's getting worse up in here - Now Almighty God the Creator of the heavens and earth - the Creator became flesh!!!
even Jesus knew he was not the Creator---- He (Jesus) answered, “Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,. . .
You flatten the passage to be totally insignificant.
It is not insignificant that God saw fit for his Son to embody his word/wisdom so that his Son could fully reflect to humanity who God was/is. It's just more significant to Trins if God came to earth and became a human being. That lines right up with Greek philosophy as we can see from Acts 14:11-13.
 
I understand figures of speech and how they are used in literature. Yep, I also understand the work of logos in the creation of the world - God spoke and it was so. I understand how logos is personified in the prologue of John and I also understand how God in his wisdom created the world . . . God's wisdom being personified in Proverbs as a 'she'.
OMG.....it's getting worse up in here - Now Almighty God the Creator of the heavens and earth - the Creator became flesh!!!
even Jesus knew he was not the Creator---- He (Jesus) answered, “Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,. . .
Do you expect Jesus to keep on clarifying that in those claims of deity in that passage that this does mean he is deity come in the flesh?
Jesus does speak ambiguously about being human and divine because if he was more blatant, he would be stoned. He comes speaking among them as human and the way he speaks of God reflects that. I suppose Jesus's approach is what confuses unitarians into denying the divinity of Christ because unitarians listen mostly like the Pharisees do -- not knowing who Christ is.
It is not insignificant that God saw fit for his Son to embody his word/wisdom so that his Son could fully reflect to humanity who God was/is.
Right. God's Son with the essence of God. You got it right in your words but then you deny the meaning of those words.
It's just more significant to Trins if God came to earth and became a human being. That lines right up with Greek philosophy as we can see from Acts 14:11-13.
That is so stupid to bring in Acts 14:11-13. That has nothing to do with Christ being God or denying him being God. Anyone trying to use that passage against the divinity of Christ is as guilty of being affected by Greek philosophy as those who thought Paul was divine.

I am harsh against the unitarians since their beliefs are so antithetical to scriptures and Christian concepts. There are other doctrines that are quite violative against scriptures but not in details so obvious as the deity of Christ.
 
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Do you expect Jesus to keep on clarifying that in those claims of deity in that passage that this does mean he is deity come in the flesh?
Jesus does speak ambiguously about being human and divine because if he was more blatant, he would be stoned. He comes speaking among them as human and the way he speaks of God reflects that. I suppose Jesus's approach is what confuses unitarians into denying the divinity of Christ because unitarians listen mostly like the Pharisees do -- not knowing who Christ is.
Do I expect Jesus to keep on clarifying claims of deity in that passage - John 1:1 . . Where did he clarify in that passage that he was deity? Would I expect Jesus to be clear on his claims of deity if he made any at all? YES. Would I expect God to clarify that he actually didn't send his Son but HE came INTO the world? YES.

Is the whole of scripture a pretend made-up story of a God giving his Son but no not really God came disguised as a human being??? Are we to take none of it seriously because IF God came as a human being and did not truthfully clarify that to us YET we are to believe that for salvation (according to some). . . . HOW ARE WE TO BELIEVE UNTO SALVATION something that is not plainly and clearly stated only inferred
That is so stupid to bring in Acts 14:11-13. That has nothing to do with Christ being God or denying him being God. Anyone trying to use that passage against the divinity of Christ is as guilty of being affected by Greek philosophy as those who thought Paul was divine.

I am harsh against the unitarians since their beliefs are so antithetical to scriptures and Christian concepts. There are other doctrines that are quite violative against scriptures but not in details so obvious as the deity of Christ.
Correct, it has nothing to do with Christ being God because Christ wasn't God. BUT it factors heavily into the notion that God came to earth as a man, a human being. So in that context, nope not stupid at all since I was wanting to show how Greek philosophy played into the development thus the Trinity doctrine was affected by Greek philosophy.

But our beliefs are not antithetical to scripture . . . our beliefs totally line up with what is written.
There is nothing written about a Triune God, nothing written about three persons in one God, nothing written about a God-man, nothing written about a 'dual nature' savior, nothing about a being that is 100%man100%God.

Jesus fought Satan's direct onslaught of temptation with IT IS WRITTEN so apparently what is written is important.
 
Do I expect Jesus to keep on clarifying claims of deity in that passage - John 1:1 . . Where did he clarify in that passage that he was deity? Would I expect Jesus to be clear on his claims of deity if he made any at all? YES. Would I expect God to clarify that he actually didn't send his Son but HE came INTO the world? YES.
That is ignorance again. You neglect the distinction between the One metaleptically called Logos and the Father. Your confusion does not make your doctrine correct.
Is the whole of scripture a pretend made-up story of a God giving his Son but no not really God came disguised as a human being??? Are we to take none of it seriously because IF God came as a human being and did not truthfully clarify that to us YET we are to believe that for salvation (according to some). . . . HOW ARE WE TO BELIEVE UNTO SALVATION something that is not plainly and clearly stated only inferred
If you had the mind of Christ, you would understand. This is a testimony against your doctrine then.
Correct, it has nothing to do with Christ being God because Christ wasn't God. BUT it factors heavily into the notion that God came to earth as a man, a human being. So in that context, nope not stupid at all since I was wanting to show how Greek philosophy played into the development thus the Trinity doctrine was affected by Greek philosophy.
You pretend Acts 14 reflects against Christ. It says nothing about Christ there. I'm surprised that a hyperliteralist would apply this in any fashion related to Christ. Maybe I should really say I'm not surprised.
For you to say that the doctrine was affected by Greek philosophy, you are saying Paul, Luke, Peter, Jesus, and John were writing based on Greek philosophy. If that were true, then you would need to accept Greek philosophy
But our beliefs are not antithetical to scripture . . . our beliefs totally line up with what is written.
There is nothing written about a Triune God, nothing written about three persons in one God, nothing written about a God-man, nothing written about a 'dual nature' savior, nothing about a being that is 100%man100%God.

Jesus fought Satan's direct onslaught of temptation with IT IS WRITTEN so apparently what is written is important.
Sorry about you living in a fictional world.
 
That is ignorance again. You neglect the distinction between the One metaleptically called Logos and the Father. Your confusion does not make your doctrine correct.
Do I expect Jesus to keep on clarifying claims of deity in that passage - John 1:1 . . Where did he clarify in that passage that he was deity? Would I expect Jesus to be clear on his claims of deity if he made any at all? YES. Would I expect God to clarify that he actually didn't send his Son but HE came INTO the world? YES.
Couldn't answer my questions could you so you accuse me of ignorance.
Thank you. Scripture makes my doctrine correct.
If you had the mind of Christ, you would understand. This is a testimony against your doctrine then.
Is the whole of scripture a pretend made-up story of a God giving his Son but no not really God came disguised as a human being??? Are we to take none of it seriously because IF God came as a human being and did not truthfully clarify that to us YET we are to believe that for salvation (according to some). . . . HOW ARE WE TO BELIEVE UNTO SALVATION something that is not plainly and clearly stated only inferred.
Actually it is a testimony against your doctrine.
You pretend Acts 14 reflects against Christ. It says nothing about Christ there. I'm surprised that a hyperliteralist would apply this in any fashion related to Christ. Maybe I should really say I'm not surprised.
For you to say that the doctrine was affected by Greek philosophy, you are saying Paul, Luke, Peter, Jesus, and John were writing based on Greek philosophy. If that were true, then you would need to accept Greek philosophy

Sorry about you living in a fictional world.
You know exactly what I meant by referring to Acts 14 and why I referred to Acts 14 and it has nothing to do with what I BELIEVE OR THINK about Christ but what Trins think about Christ.

I know it doesn't say anything about Christ again you know WHY I referred to Acts 14 because just as the Greeks thought Paul and Barnabas were 'gods come to earth' ---- Trins believe Jesus to be God come to earth.

I LIVE IN A FICTIONAL WORLD!!!!! Yeah right . . .
 
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