Thomas... My Lord and my God

[synergy]

You should leave the defination of Christian to Jesus. So a Christian is someone who follows the ways and teachings of the Christ, yes? Ok, Jesus consistently defined God as the Father, but never defined himself as God. John 4:21–23, John 6:27, John 8:54, John 20:17, Matthew 11:25–26, Matthew 26:39, John 11:41-42, John 17:1-3, Matthew 6:9, Luke 11:2, and more. That's Jesus what Jesus said. Jesus exhaustively talked about God and said He is the Father. The rest of the Bible does, too. You also are not a Christian if you don't believe the only true God is the Father. None of you trinitarians on this board are Christians.

We do believe that the Father is the only true God, as is the Word and is the Holy Spirit. We just don't believe your heretical view that only the Father is truely God. That flies in the face of John 1:1.

 

[Selah]

Not according to Scripture.

Why do you desire to be called a Christian when you don’t believe in Him?

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman's name does forewarn us that he does run away from reality.

Post it again.

 

[Runningman]

A Christian is a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). To follow Christ, you have to believe that He is who He (and the rest of Scriptures) says He is. Jesus is God (John 1:1-3, 14), and to say that He is not it to admit you are not one of His followers.

Wrong! Jesus said several times that He was, in fact, God (John 8:58, John 10:30, John 14:9, John 20:28, Mark 14:61-62.

And He also said that He and the Father were one (John 10:30).

Yes a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus. Which is why you are not a Christian. Jesus never taught that God is a trinity, never taught to pray to a trinity, never taught to worship a trinity, etc.

Jesus taught the true worshippers worship the Father in John 5:23,24. You aren't a true worshipper.

Jesus taught to pray to the Father in Matt 6:6,9. You also don't do that because you pray to a trinity.

It's not convincing at all that you can be a Christian when you don't even obey Jesus' teachings.

 

[Runningman]

We do believe that the Father is the only true God, as is the Word and is the Holy Spirit. We just don't believe your heretical view that only the Father is truely God. That flies in the face of John 1:1.

You all believe the trinity is the only true god. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. The Father is the only God Jesus ever mentioned. Why is that not significant to you?

 

[Runningman]

You got a scripture to prove what you say?

Your statement, which you bear the burden of proof for, "Only a person who believes that Jesus is God can call themselves a Christian", is not stated, taught, or described in Scripture.

 

[Runningman]

Why do you desire to be called a Christian when you don’t believe in Him?

I believe Jesus is the son of God and messiah, just as he and everyone else taught. Why do you desire to be called a Christian when you actually believe he is God, something he denied?

Belief in God and Jesus are two seperate things:

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

 

[Selah]

Your statement, which you bear the burden of proof for, "Only a person who believes that Jesus is God can call themselves a Christian", is not stated, taught, or described in Scripture.

I didn’t say it was. I wasn’t quoting a scripture.

 

[Selah]

Why do you desire to be called a Christian when you actually believe he is God, something he denied?

Do you have a scripture where Jesus denied being God?

 

[Selah]

I believe Jesus is the son of God and messiah, just as he and everyone else taught. Why do you desire to be called a Christian when you actually believe he is God, something he denied?

Belief in God and Jesus are two seperate things:

John 14
1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well.

Thanks for that great scripture. Notice the capital “M” in the word “Me.”

 

[Runningman]

I didn’t say it was. I wasn’t quoting a scripture.

You shouldn't try to pass your opinions off as useful in matters of as something as important as what Christians believe. If you aren't reapeating what Jesus and the apostles said, then I gurantee it isn't worth our time. They certainly didn't ever say "Only a person who believes that Jesus is God can call themselves a Christian."

 

[Runningman]

Thanks for that great scripture. Notice the capital “M” in the word “Me.”

Um, that's how the publishers printed it. It isn't necessarily capitalized in the actual Greek manuscript.

 

[Runningman]

Do you have a scripture where Jesus denied being God?

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

 

[mikesw]

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

You have to pretend this is saying "do not call Me good." As a question this allows the divinity of God being the answer why this man can call Jesus good. Again, nuance escapes the unitarian like air escapes a popped balloon. I try to help you get beyond this weakness of your interpretations.

 

[Selah]

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.

Mark 10:17-18 (NKJV) 17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” 18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is,] God.

Jesus is reminding this person that when you see the Son, you have seen the Father.

John 14:9-11 (NKJV) 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority;] but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 “Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

s e l a h

 

[mikesw]

Mark 10:17-18 (NKJV) 17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” 18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is,] God.

Jesus is reminding this person that when you see the Son, you have seen the Father.

John 14:9-11 (NKJV) 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority;] but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 “Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

s e l a h

That's gooder than my response.

 

[Selah]

That's gooder than my response.

Nahhh… not at all….

 

[civic]

God is invisible, Jesus is not invisible. Your John 1:18 translation is bunk and contradicts Scripture. Means Jesus is not God because the ONLY GOD is invisible.

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 Timothy 1
17Now to the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

This is the correct version because the only God is invisible, but many saw Jesus, contrary to your version saying that Jesus is God. John 1 is a travesty for trintiarianism.

John 1 (NKJV)
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Wrong the Father is invisible and no man has seen the Father.

I will believe Jesus teaching while you deny His teachings

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father

Next fallacy

 

[civic]

You're confusing yourself and tying yourself into knots trying to talk your way out of what the Bible says.

Let's see if we can help you fix it.

Is God invisible? Yes or no

Is Jesus invisible? Yes or no

It’s the Father who is invisible

Next fallacy

John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father

 

[synergy]

You all believe the trinity is the only true god. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. The Father is the only God Jesus ever mentioned. Why is that not significant to you?

John 1:1 destroys the unitarian heresy that only the Father is truly God. Deal with it. Until then ... toodles. ....