Thomas... My Lord and my God

Runningman said:
You're confusing yourself and tying yourself into knots trying to talk your way out of what the Bible says.

Let's see if we can help you fix it.

Is God invisible? Yes or no

Is Jesus invisible? Yes or no
Click to expand...
Is Jesus both God and man? Yes. That means God shows through him even though God is invisible apart from being incarnate. Do you have any other confused questions to ask?
You do not seem to recognize what God is able to do and thus you make God powerless. Maybe you are just a deist who says that God got everything started but has not interaction with creation thereafter.
 
synergy said:
They are your Gaffes #'s 1, 3, 14, and 16 below. The only thing "too easy" is how easy it is for us to pinpoint your Gaffes as evidenced below:

List of Unitarian RunningMan's Gaffes:
  1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
  2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
  3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
  4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
  5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
  6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
  7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
  8. At no time does Jesus ever has to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
  9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".
  10. Your ignorance of the Word of God in the OT (1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3).
  11. You ignore the prevailing Greco-Roman paganism at that time when you mistakenly present John 17:3 as being against Trinitarianism. You're also working backwards from John 17:3 to wipe out what John wrote in John 1:1.
  12. Your attempt to rewrite John 1:1c from "the Word was God" to "the Word was godly" was denied.
  13. You forget that God said "Let us make man in our Image". That proves that there are multiple Creator Persons.
  14. You are denigrating God's Shekinah Light (το φως το αληθινον) that radiated out of the OT Tabernacle and out of Jesus at his Transfiguration. Just as God tabernacled and radiated his Shekinah in the OT, the Word now tabernacles and radiates his Shekinah Light as Jesus.
  15. Your deliberate ignorance of the Greek word ὅραμα which means “something seen” or “spectacle.” and cancels the heretical idea that the Transfiguration event was imaginary or unreal.
  16. Your denial of the Glory of God being Jesus' intrinsic Glory (John 1:14), proving once again that the Word was God.
  17. Your refusal to understand how the Greek word ἐρχόμενον (coming) (in John 1:9) aligns perfectly with Jesus' Kenosis.
Click to expand...
Post it again.
 
mikesw said:
Is Jesus both God and man? Yes. That means God shows through him even though God is invisible apart from being incarnate. Do you have any other confused questions to ask?
You do not seem to recognize what God is able to do and thus you make God powerless. Maybe you are just a deist who says that God got everything started but has not interaction with creation thereafter.
Click to expand...
Based on the internal witness of the Bible, Jesus is not God and man. That isn't how anyone ever described Jesus or the way they wrote about how they either remembered him or identified him.

Think of it like this. Jesus and his disciples held God in very high esteem. When they spoke to Him, they were very polite and gave due deference to God. See Matthew 6:9, where Jesus explicitly taught his disciples to pray only to the Father, saying "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name..." or Mary's song in Luke 1:46-49 where she said God is her savior, the Mighty One, and holy is His name. Or the apostle's prayer in Acts 4:24 where they said to God "Sovereign Lord..." and later in the same prayer called David and Jesus just God's servants.

So when people spoke to God they were clear to call Him God and give Him due respect, just like Jesus did.

However, when people wrote about Jesus they just kept right on calling him a man and not God or a God-Man. In Acts 1:11, angels identified Jesus as "This same Jesus" meaning that Jesus' continued identity would be as a man even after he was taken to heaven and returns. Paul taught the Greeks that Jesus is a man who God apointed (Acts 17:31) and later said that Jesus is a man who mediates between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5) and so on. You get the picture.

Your "god man" hypothesis is a post-biblical theological belief. It's heresy.
 
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Runningman said:
Based on the internal witness of the Bible, Jesus is not God and man. That isn't how anyone ever described Jesus or the way they wrote about how they either remembered him or identified him.

Think of it like this. Jesus and his disciples held God in very high esteem. When they spoke to Him, they were very polite and gave due deference to God. See Matthew 6:9, where Jesus explicitly taught his disciples to pray only to the Father, saying "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name..." or Mary's song in Luke 1:46-49 where she said God is her savior, the Mighty One, and holy is His name. Or the apostle's prayer in Acts 4:24 where they said to God "Sovereign Lord..." and later in the same prayer called David and Jesus just God's servants.

So when people spoke to God they were clear to call Him God and give Him due respect, just like Jesus did.

However, when people wrote about Jesus they just kept right on calling him a man and not God or a God-Man. In Acts 1:11, angels identified Jesus as "This same Jesus" meaning that Jesus' continued identity would be as a man even after he was taken to heaven and returns. Paul taught the Greeks that Jesus is a man who God apointed (Acts 17:31) and later said that Jesus is a man who mediates between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5) and so on. You get the picture.

Your "god man" hypothesis is a post-biblical theological belief. It's heresy.
Click to expand...
maybe God can forgive you for denying obvious scriptures about the divinity of Christ and pretending they do not exist
 
Peterlag said:
Not only do they begin with a trinity concept and then work backwards to find a concept to support it. But they also cannot supply Scripture to show what God would accomplish by coming to the earth as a man. So they then pretend they answered the question. Their deception is off the charts.
Click to expand...
Are you turning your back on Jesus Christ?
 
Runningman said:
Post it again.
Click to expand...
I highlighted below your Gaffes that we're discussing in this Post. Why do you continue to run away from addressing them? Mind you, you did forewarn us that you do run away from reality with your title RunningMan. So just tell us if that's the case here once more for you.

List of Unitarian RunningMan's Gaffes:
  1. You mistake us for Modalists by falsely accusing us that we do not differentiate between the Word and the God (the Father).
  2. Your ignorance of the Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν in John 1:14.
  3. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
  4. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
  5. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
  6. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
  7. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
  8. At no time does Jesus ever has to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
  9. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".
  10. Your ignorance of the Word of God in the OT (1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3).
  11. You ignore the prevailing Greco-Roman paganism at that time when you mistakenly present John 17:3 as being against Trinitarianism. You're also working backwards from John 17:3 to wipe out what John wrote in John 1:1.
  12. Your attempt to rewrite John 1:1c from "the Word was God" to "the Word was godly" was denied.
  13. You forget that God said "Let us make man in our Image". That proves that there are multiple Creator Persons.
  14. You are denigrating God's Shekinah Light (το φως το αληθινον) that radiated out of the OT Tabernacle and out of Jesus at his Transfiguration. Just as God tabernacled and radiated his Shekinah in the OT, the Word now tabernacles and radiates his Shekinah Light as Jesus.
  15. Your deliberate ignorance of the Greek word ὅραμα which means “something seen” or “spectacle.” and cancels the heretical idea that the Transfiguration event was imaginary or unreal.
  16. Your denial of the Glory of God being Jesus' intrinsic Glory (John 1:14), proving once again that the Word was God.
  17. Your refusal to understand how the Greek word ἐρχόμενον (coming) (in John 1:9) aligns perfectly with Jesus' Kenosis.
 
mikesw said:
maybe God can forgive you for denying obvious scriptures about the divinity of Christ and pretending they do not exist
Click to expand...
Looks like you're running out of things to rebuttal with. I will accept your defeat as a trinitarian. You can't go the distance with your doctrines because the Bible contradicts them too much,.
 
Runningman said:
Looks like you're running out of things to rebuttal with. I will accept your defeat as a trinitarian. You can't go the distance with your doctrines because the Bible contradicts them too much,.
Click to expand...
It is useless to share things with you. You just deny the evidence. You can feel like you have defeated the truth but that gets you nowhere. Even if I were silent, you still have to deal with the growing list of issues that synergy reveals about your posts.
 
Runningman said:
I'm a Christian. I don't believe Mike is. I believe he thinks he's a Christian though. We have proven he doesn't actually follow what Jesus taught about who God is.
Click to expand...
You cannot be a Christian (a Christ follower) if you do not believe in the deity of the Christ/Messiah. The Christ (Greek for the Hebrew word Messiah) is God according to Isa 9:6. And Jesus was the Christ/Messiah. That means that Jesus is God. Further statements that Jesus is God are found in John 1:1-3, 14, Matt 1:23, Tit 2:13, and Heb 1:8.
 
mikesw said:
It is useless to share things with you. You just deny the evidence. You can feel like you have defeated the truth but that gets you nowhere. Even if I were silent, you still have to deal with the growing list of issues that synergy reveals about your posts.
Click to expand...
How's this for evidence? Don't care?

Jesus and his disciples held God in very high esteem. When they spoke to Him, they were very polite and gave due deference to God. See Matthew 6:9, where Jesus explicitly taught his disciples to pray only to the Father, saying "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name..." or Mary's song in Luke 1:46-49 where she said God is her savior, the Mighty One, and holy is His name. Or the apostle's prayer in Acts 4:24 where they said to God "Sovereign Lord..." and later in the same prayer called David and Jesus just God's servants.

So when people spoke to God they were clear to call Him God and give Him due respect, just like Jesus did.

However, when people wrote about Jesus they just kept right on calling him a man and not God or a God-Man. In Acts 1:11, angels identified Jesus as "This same Jesus" meaning that Jesus' continued identity would be as a man even after he was taken to heaven and returns. Paul taught the Greeks that Jesus is a man who God apointed (Acts 17:31) and later said that Jesus is a man who mediates between God and men (1 Timothy 2:5) and so on. You get the picture.
 
Doug Brents said:
You cannot be a Christian (a Christ follower) if you do not believe in the deity of the Christ/Messiah. The Christ (Greek for the Hebrew word Messiah) is God according to Isa 9:6. And Jesus was the Christ/Messiah. That means that Jesus is God. Further statements that Jesus is God are found in John 1:1-3, 14, Matt 1:23, Tit 2:13, and Heb 1:8.
Click to expand...
You should leave the defination of Christian to Jesus. So a Christian is someone who follows the ways and teachings of the Christ, yes? Ok, Jesus consistently defined God as the Father, but never defined himself as God. John 4:21–23, John 6:27, John 8:54, John 20:17, Matthew 11:25–26, Matthew 26:39, John 11:41-42, John 17:1-3, Matthew 6:9, Luke 11:2, and more. That's Jesus what Jesus said. Jesus exhaustively talked about God and said He is the Father. The rest of the Bible does, too. You also are not a Christian if you don't believe the only true God is the Father. None of you trinitarians on this board are Christians.
 
mikesw said:
It is useless to share things with you. You just deny the evidence. You can feel like you have defeated the truth but that gets you nowhere. Even if I were silent, you still have to deal with the growing list of issues that synergy reveals about your posts.
Click to expand...
@Runningman's name does forewarn us that he does run away from reality.
 
Runningman said:
You should leave the defination of Christian to Jesus.
Click to expand...
A Christian is a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). To follow Christ, you have to believe that He is who He (and the rest of Scriptures) says He is. Jesus is God (John 1:1-3, 14), and to say that He is not it to admit you are not one of His followers.
Runningman said:
So a Christian is someone who follows the ways and teachings of the Christ, yes? Ok, Jesus consistently defined God as the Father, but never defined himself as God.
Click to expand...
Wrong! Jesus said several times that He was, in fact, God (John 8:58, John 10:30, John 14:9, John 20:28, Mark 14:61-62.
Runningman said:
John 4:21–23, John 6:27, John 8:54, John 20:17, Matthew 11:25–26, Matthew 26:39, John 11:41-42, John 17:1-3, Matthew 6:9, Luke 11:2, and more. That's Jesus what Jesus said. Jesus exhaustively talked about God and said He is the Father.
Click to expand...
And He also said that He and the Father were one (John 10:30).
 

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