Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Doug Brents]

Does it say Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood?

That doesn't answer my question. What, in your opinion did He empty Himself of?

 

[Peterlag]

That doesn't answer my question. What, in your opinion did He empty Himself of?

Since it does not say he emptied himself of his Godhood. Let's just go ahead and make stuff up about what we think it was and then call it our religion. And then we can take it a step further and say our guess is what the Apostles wrote. And then we can say if you don't believe what we made up then you don't believe what the Apostles wrote.

 

[Doug Brents]

Since it does not say he emptied himself of his Godhood. Let's just go ahead and make stuff up about what we think it was and then call it our religion. And then we can take it a step further and say our guess is what the Apostles wrote. And then we can say if you don't believe what we made up then you don't believe what the Apostles wrote.

Pete, I know you don't believe that Jesus is deity. So in your mind, He didn't have any deity to empty Himself of. But He did empty Himself (Phil 2:7). So of what did He empty Himself?

 

[Peterlag]

Pete, I know you don't believe that Jesus is deity. So in your mind, He didn't have any deity to empty Himself of. But He did empty Himself (Phil 2:7). So of what did He empty Himself?

Jesus was born the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and considered to have royal blood. Referred to as the king of the Jews in Scripture and many can see God as the King all thought out the Old Testament and therefore Christ as His prince. He did not walk on to the stage with those credentials as was his legal right to do so. Instead he humbled himself and took the role of a servant.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Doug Brents]

Jesus was born the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and considered to have royal blood. Referred to as the king of the Jews in Scripture and many can see God as the King all thought out the Old Testament and therefore Christ as His prince. He did not walk on to the stage with those credentials as was his legal right to do so. Instead he humbled himself and took the role of a servant.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

This is a good start. The very fact that He emptied Himself first has us understanding that He existed before He came to Earth, and He was more before than He was when He came to Earth.
So He went from being purely spiritual, to being both spirit and human.
And He emptied Himself of His authority, going from King to servant.
And He emptied Himself of self-direction, doing only what the Father told Him to do.

Is that all that He emptied Himself of?

 

[Peterlag]

More on John 1:1...

The word logos (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος lógos, is something said (including the thought). So Word (logos) means expression of thought. If we use this everywhere "Word" is used it makes sense. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather the Word became flesh which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

This is a good start. The very fact that He emptied Himself first has us understanding that He existed before He came to Earth, and He was more before than He was when He came to Earth.
So He went from being purely spiritual, to being both spirit and human.
And He emptied Himself of His authority, going from King to servant.
And He emptied Himself of self-direction, doing only what the Father told Him to do.

Is that all that He emptied Himself of?

Now you're off to a bad start. I emptied myself when I got out of bed this morning and that does not mean I existed before I was born on the earth.

 

[Doug Brents]

Now you're off to a bad start. I emptied myself when I got out of bed this morning and that does not mean I existed before I was born on the earth.

Say what?????

 

[Doug Brents]

Now you're off to a bad start. I emptied myself when I got out of bed this morning and that does not mean I existed before I was born on the earth.

Jesus did not empty Himself of biological waste (as you imply in your ignorant, despicable comment) before He became a biological entity. He emptied Himself of spiritual characteristics and traits that He possessed before He took on biological flesh.

So again, of what did He empty Himself?

 

[mikesw]

Say what?????

I guess I could expect him to be so crude in a discussion about the divine Son.

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus did not empty Himself of biological waste (as you imply in your ignorant, despicable comment) before He became a biological entity. He emptied Himself of spiritual characteristics and traits that He possessed before He took on biological flesh.

So again, of what did He empty Himself?

You assume I used the bathroom when I woke and you assume Jesus laid aside his Godhood.

 

[Doug Brents]

You assume I used the bathroom when I woke and you assume Jesus laid aside his Godhood.

No, I do not assume He laid aside His Godhood. He did not lay it aside. He still possessed His deity when He was in human form. You assume He did not have it to lay aside.

But I ask again, since you have refused so far to answer the question, of what did He empty Himself?

 

[Peterlag]

No, I do not assume He laid aside His Godhood. He did not lay it aside. He still possessed His deity when He was in human form. You assume He did not have it to lay aside.

But I ask again, since you have refused so far to answer the question, of what did He empty Himself?

I answered you and I often answer. You guys say I don't because you do not understand my answer. And I too don't always understand your questions. See post 2285

 

[Fred]

I guess I could expect him to be so crude in a discussion about the divine Son.

Looney Tunes.

 

[Doug Brents]

I answered you and I often answer. You guys say I don't because you do not understand my answer. And I too don't always understand your questions. See post 2285

You have not answered my question at all. Phil 2:7 says that when Jesus took on human form, He emptied Himself. Of what did He empty Himself? What did He leave in Heaven when He left Heaven to become a man?

If you don't understand the question, then ask for clarification. Don't spout off some nonsense about emptying yourself after you wake up.

 

[Peterlag]

You have not answered my question at all. Phil 2:7 says that when Jesus took on human form, He emptied Himself. Of what did He empty Himself? What did He leave in Heaven when He left Heaven to become a man?

If you don't understand the question, then ask for clarification. Don't spout off some nonsense about emptying yourself after you wake up.

I will go to post 2285 and re-post it and then you can tell me what part you do not understand.

Jesus was born the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and considered to have royal blood. Referred to as the king of the Jews in Scripture and many can see God as the King all thought out the Old Testament and therefore Christ as His prince. He did not walk on to the stage with those credentials as was his legal right to do so. Instead he humbled himself and took the role of a servant.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Peterlag]

More data on John 1:1...​

John 1:1 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.

Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it's clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

A friend put it this way... "The word logos (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος logos, is something said (including the thought). So the word logos means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word logos is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ."