Because heresy is sickening.
Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
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Because heresy is sickening.
Selah
Active Member
Sure there is; right here:
Revelation 1:11-18 (NKJV) 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send [it] to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.” 12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands [One] like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair [were] white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet [were] like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance [was] like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 “I [am] He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Peterlag
Active Member
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God.” These words apply to God, not to Christ. The one “who is and who was and who is to come” is clearly identified in the context as God, not Jesus Christ. Revelation 1:4-5 reads: “Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.” The separation between “the one who is, was and is to come” and Jesus Christ can be clearly seen. The one “who is, and who was and who is to come” is God.
The phrase “the Alpha and the Omega” has caused many people to believe this verse refers to Christ. However, study of the occurrences of the phrase indicates that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies solely to God. Scholars are not completely sure what the phrase “the Alpha and the Omega” means. Lenski concludes “it is fruitless to search Jewish and pagan literature for the source of something that resembles this name Alpha and Omega. Nowhere is a person, to say nothing of a divine Person, called "Alpha and Omega" or in Hebrew, Aleph and Tau.
Although there is no evidence from the historical sources that anyone is named “the Alpha and Omega” Bullinger says that the phrase “is a Hebraism, in common use among the ancient Jewish Commentators to designate the whole of anything from the beginning to the end." That would make the expression the figure of speech polarmerismos, similar to "and there was evening, and there was morning” which stands for the whole day in Genesis 1. The best scholarly minds have concluded that the phrase has something to do with starting and finishing something, or the entirety of something. Norton writes that these words “denote the certain accomplishment of his purposes; that what he has begun he will carry on to its consummation.
Peterlag
Active Member
I would never want to have the same belief system as the Catholics.
Redemption
Active Member
Agreed
Peterlag
Active Member
I just looked at that verse and there's nothing teaching that Jesus is God or that Jesus has the same attributes. There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. Trinitarians piece together statements that are scattered all over the Bible. They basically use bits and pieces of words and half verses along with their own human reasoning, imagination, speculation and assumptions as they pick one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here, and a clue there, and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human thinking. This is why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
Then you chose to ignore that the same attributes that are applied to the Father are equally applied to the Son.
Redemption
Active Member
Isn't it amazing that if we post one word that is not in a given idea we are wrong, yet Peter posts all sorts of twisted ideas
and then seems amazed that "They throw me out of churches just the way they delete, censor and ban me from online sites."
Redemption
Active Member
You get your pants in a knot over what? NOW you claim Jesus was not the Son of God.
No wonder you get kicked off or out of....
Noone knows where you stand.
You truly are neither hot nor cold.
Peterlag
Active Member
Words are used to refer to what is spoken or written...
They are not living creatures. This should have been taught in second grade. If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...
Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.
The Epistles would have writings like...
Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.
And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.
Peterlag
Active Member
Show me where I said Jesus is not the son of God.
Peterlag
Active Member
I'm not ignoring. It's not there.
Peterlag
Active Member
The Catholics have never believed in anything that is correct. And they do not believe in Jesus. They believe Jesus is God and they believe in the resurrection of God.
Which proves you are ignoring it.
DavidTree
Active Member
Well you circumvent your own attempt to understand
dwight92070
Active Member
There is not one verse that says Jesus is not God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. Unitarians piece together statements that are scattered all over the Bible. They basically use bits and pieces of words and half verses along with their own human reasoning, imagination, speculation and assumptions as they pick one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here, and a clue there, and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human thinking. This is why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is not God.
Redemption
Active Member
I'll tell you why. If it had been that simple then there would have been no need for faith.
People would just have gone along saying and doing and not seeking and learning
When God appeared to Moses and Moses came down that mountain carrying the 10 commandments... it had zero effect on most of the crowd waiting for him.
I would be willing to bet that they all felt there was no need to hold the line because somehow or someway Moses
would just go talk to the big guy and it would be alright.
Same for Adam... He walked and talked to God. God gave him the order not to eat and instead he wanted to please his wife....
but first God had said they would die. Eve ate and lived. She was not like any of the dead animals.... So he did not fear or he might
have felt that in the end it would be alright.
You say it shuld have been spelled out in the bible... I say no way.
The 10 were spelled out and you have a major religion today who had graven images. You have virtually everywhere where
the sabbath.. either Sat or Sun is not observed. And I am not taking about just going to church. For everywhere we all force other people to work on outr day, cause God forbid we would miss that game or miss going out to a Saturday night dinner.
You have people that lie. And dont say you never because i wont believe you. I know people who have stolen things. As a kid
my crime was penny candy... though never robbed a bank. I know no one personally who has killed..... oh yes I do. A 21ish got so drunk one night she hit and killed a child on her way home.
It used to be in writing and hung on school walls.. those 10 and it stopped no one.
Adultery. I bet if you think long enough you know someone...or someones.
Having it in the bible cut and dried would only mmean that people would no longer read, and scour, and hunt for things like we do today. And what then would happen to the predestinees V free will people.... No more forums.... they would become kumbaya blog sites.
I suspect that if we could go back in the way back machine we would learn that a lot never made it into the 4 corners of scripture
and you have to remember what Jesus said was the reason for parables... and that God has blinded and deafened people.
No all are supposed to know. If it is in black and white it could be not too good
Peterlag
Active Member
It seems it would have been clearly stated in the Bible and in the earliest Christian creeds if the doctrine of the Trinity was genuine and central to Christian belief and especially if belief in it was necessary for salvation as many Trinitarians teach. God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.
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