MTMattie
Active Member
Did you ever get between someone and your wife, on her behalf? That makes you a mediator in your one flesh.
Thomas... My Lord and my God
- Thread starter Peterlag
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Peterlag
Active Member
You are stuck on this idea that a man and a woman are one flesh. These statements made in writing in all cultures are figures of speech. You and your wife did not get glued together and even if you did you two would still be two different people glued together.
Peterlag
Active Member
our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus means two creatures.
Just as me and my brother are two creatures. The word "and" does not mean my brother who is me.
This should have been taught in second grade.
God and Savior, Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13)
Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (2 Peter. 1:11)
According to your confusion this has to refer to two creatures.
MTMattie
Active Member
I believe God. You dont.
Peterlag
Active Member
Am I to believe that I can do greater works than God?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; (John 14:12)The Trinity folks have 2 what my friend calls "Get Out Of Jail Free" cards. And they use both every single time whenever they need them.
1.) That was his human part.
2.) God did not mean for us to understand because we are only human.
There's no Scripture that says Jesus had two parts or that God wanted us to be ignorant concerning the Scriptures.
Runningman
Active Member
I long for the apostate church of the Trinitarians to return to the kind of Christianity Jesus revealed. We may not ever get it in this life, but we can do our part to perpetuate the teachings that the Father first taught to His begotten Son.
Peterlag
Active Member
For your enjoyment...
"The doctrine of the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine... it's the product of theological reflection." - The Christian Doctrine of God Trinitarian. E. Brunner, 1949, p. 236.
“Trinity is not a biblical doctrine" - New Bible Dictionary, J. Douglas, F. Bruce, 1982, p. 1298.
“Scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the Trinity as such in either the Old or the New Testament” - The Harper Collins Encyclopedia of Catholicism, 1995, p. 564.
“The Bible has no statements or speculations concerning a trinitary deity." - Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 12, p. 383, 1979.
“Three coequal partners in the Godhead cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the Bible. It's important to avoid reading the Trinity into places where it does not appear." -Oxford Companion to the Bible, Bruce Metzger, M. Coogan, p. 782-3.
“The doctrine of the Trinity is not present in biblical thought... it goes beyond, and even distorts, what the Bible says about God.” - A Contemporary Interpretation of the Trinity - God in Three Persons: Professor M. Erickson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary,p. 12, 20.
“The belief (in a Trinity-God) was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly and formally a biblical belief." -Dictionary of the Bible, 1995, (trinitarian) J. Mckenzie, p. 899.
“The doctrine of the Trinity was formulated in the post-biblical period." - Harper’s Bible Dictionary, 1985.
“In the New Testament there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity." - An Encyclopedia of Religion, V. Ferm (ed.), 1945, p. 344.
“No passage of Scripture discusses the threeness of God." - The New International Version. Disciples Study Bible, p. 173, note for Mt. 3:16.
“The Bible does not state that there is one God who exists in three persons” - Basic Theology, Professor C. Ryrie, p. 89.
“The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity” - Christian Doctrine, Professor S. Guthrie, Columbia Theological Seminary, 1994,p. 92.
“The doctrine of the Trinity cannot be justified on the basis of Scripture. Indeed it's hard to imagine Jesus speaking in such terms" - An Outline of Biblical Theology, Professor M. Burrows, Yale Divinity School, p. 81.
“The doctrine of God as existing in three persons and one substance is not demonstrable by scriptural proofs." - Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, 1898.
“There is in the Old Testament no indication of interior distinctions in the God-head. And there is no doctrine of the Trinity in the New Testament” - The Known Bible and its Defense, Reverend M. Hembre, 1933, p. 25.
The above is from volume one of a two volume paper called...
Sleight Of Mind
by: Steven Blake
Runningman
Active Member
It's pretty good to see some honest commentary on the doctrine of the Trinity from any publication.
oh right. you were gone when peterlags spin on their views was exposed.
If we take this as a good evidence of unitarian distorting of meaning, we can recognize that Erickson is just saying not to read the Trinitarian doctrine improperly into the text of scripture. That is not to to reject the recognition of our triune God but just to be humble in our reading of scripture in its context. For the unitarian, he cannot allow people to understand God in a broad sense but only in a hyperliteralist sense that makes God two dimensional and constrained to man's imagination of an anthropomorphic deity.
No matter how many errors Peterlag makes, he just copies and pastes them back at a later date.
Be careful of Peterlag. He never learns when errors are pointed out in his posts and understanding.
Peterlag
Active Member
This is a great example how folks that don't understand the Eastern customs and how the Bible was written in their Eastern culture and so many then make up their own concepts and then teach it like if it's God's Word. It's how they dream up their own imagination, human reasoning, speculations and assumptions.
He came down from heaven...
Something was said to have come from God or come from heaven if God was its source. For example, James 1:17 says that every good gift is “from above” and “comes down” from God. What James means is clear. God is the Author and source of the good things in our lives. God works behind the scenes to provide what we need. The verse does not mean that the good things in our lives come directly down from heaven. The phrase “he who came down from heaven” in John 3:13 is to be understood in the same way we understand James’ words—that God is the source of Jesus Christ, which He was. Christ was God’s plan, and then God directly fathered Jesus.
There are also other verses that say Jesus was “sent from God,” a phrase that shows God as the ultimate source of what is sent. John the Baptist was a man “sent from God” (John 1:6), and it was he who said that Jesus “comes from above” and “comes from heaven” (John 3:31). When God wanted to tell the people that He would bless them if they gave their tithes, He told them that He would open the windows of “heaven” and pour out a blessing (Malachi 3:10). Of course, everyone understood the idiom being used, and no one believed that God would literally pour things out of heaven. They knew that the phrase meant that God was the origin of the blessings they received. Still another example is when Christ was speaking and said, “Where was the baptism of John from? From heaven or of human origin?” (Matthew 21:25). Of course, the way that John’s baptism would have been “from heaven” was if God was the source of the revelation. John did not get the idea on his own, it came “from heaven.” The verse makes the idiom clear: things could be “from heaven,” i.e., from God, or they could be “from men.” The idiom is the same when used of Jesus. Jesus is “from God,” “from heaven” or “from above” in the sense that God is his Father and thus his origin.
The idea of coming from God or being sent by God is also clarified by Jesus’ words in John 17. He said, “Just as you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.” (John 17:18). We understand perfectly what Christ meant when he said, “I sent them into the world.” He meant that he commissioned us, or appointed us. The statement does not imply that we were in heaven with Christ and then incarnated into the flesh. Christ said, “As you sent me…I sent them.” So, in the same way that Christ sent us is how we should understand the phrase that God sent Christ.
He came down from heaven...
Something was said to have come from God or come from heaven if God was its source. For example, James 1:17 says that every good gift is “from above” and “comes down” from God. What James means is clear. God is the Author and source of the good things in our lives. God works behind the scenes to provide what we need. The verse does not mean that the good things in our lives come directly down from heaven. The phrase “he who came down from heaven” in John 3:13 is to be understood in the same way we understand James’ words—that God is the source of Jesus Christ, which He was. Christ was God’s plan, and then God directly fathered Jesus.
There are also other verses that say Jesus was “sent from God,” a phrase that shows God as the ultimate source of what is sent. John the Baptist was a man “sent from God” (John 1:6), and it was he who said that Jesus “comes from above” and “comes from heaven” (John 3:31). When God wanted to tell the people that He would bless them if they gave their tithes, He told them that He would open the windows of “heaven” and pour out a blessing (Malachi 3:10). Of course, everyone understood the idiom being used, and no one believed that God would literally pour things out of heaven. They knew that the phrase meant that God was the origin of the blessings they received. Still another example is when Christ was speaking and said, “Where was the baptism of John from? From heaven or of human origin?” (Matthew 21:25). Of course, the way that John’s baptism would have been “from heaven” was if God was the source of the revelation. John did not get the idea on his own, it came “from heaven.” The verse makes the idiom clear: things could be “from heaven,” i.e., from God, or they could be “from men.” The idiom is the same when used of Jesus. Jesus is “from God,” “from heaven” or “from above” in the sense that God is his Father and thus his origin.
The idea of coming from God or being sent by God is also clarified by Jesus’ words in John 17. He said, “Just as you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.” (John 17:18). We understand perfectly what Christ meant when he said, “I sent them into the world.” He meant that he commissioned us, or appointed us. The statement does not imply that we were in heaven with Christ and then incarnated into the flesh. Christ said, “As you sent me…I sent them.” So, in the same way that Christ sent us is how we should understand the phrase that God sent Christ.
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Jesus does not mean he sent the from heaven though nor does scripture say that all Christians are sent down from heaven. I wonder why. lol.
Peterlag
Active Member
Idioms are used often in the Bible even if you deny them or don't understand Eastern culture. Same with the food Manna that Israel found on the ground. It did not fall from the sky like snow. It was on the ground in the morning. The idiom was that it came from above or it came from heaven.
great. but that does not mean you blend everything together without recognizing context. We'll try to teach you some techniques to study scripture.
Peterlag
Active Member
There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son.
Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not.
Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You're right, there is not just one, there are MANY!
You clearly haven't read the Gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and especially John go to great lengths to demonstrate Jesus' deity.
Then why did the Jews frequently take up stones to kill Jesus for blasphemy? They clearly understood that He was claiming to be God, to be equal to God, and to be one with God.
Peterlag
Active Member
The Jews would not have considered Jesus a threat, but insane if he had walked around saying he was God. But it was a threat for Jesus to claim to be the Messiah of God and also walk around doing miracles. Jesus had not been claiming to be God in the flesh and this is why the Jews never asked him at his trial if he was God in the flesh, but instead they asked him about what he had been claiming to be, which was the Messiah. Mark 14:61-62 records the High Priest asking “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said "I am.” The High Priest tore his garments and said he deserved to be put to death when Jesus stated he was the Messiah. So we see that the Jews correctly assessed that Jesus had been claiming to be the Christ, and that Jesus indeed said he was the Christ, and also that the Jews thought his claim was worthy of the death penalty.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Scripture is clear that whether they thought He was insane or not, they believed He was blaspheming. And the consequence for blasphemy is death by stoning. So every time they took up stones to stone Him to death they believed He was blaspheming. When did they take up stones? When He said things (which you deny) that made Him equal with God (John 5:18, John 8:56-59, John 10:30-33).
Jesus was accused of being the "Son of God", which, according to John 5:18, makes Him equal with God.
Stating that He was the Messiah was not what angered and disturbed the high priest. What angered him was Jesus claim to be the "Son of the Blessed". As noted above, that makes Him equal with God, and that is something the Jews could not accept. Can you? Can you accept that Jesus, who NEVER lied (or sinned in ANY way), claimed to be the Son of God? And that that claim makes Him equal with God?
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