Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Peterlag]

Be still my heart. I absolutely agree with you on both points.

Cool. Do we agree on anything else the Catholics also believe in? Like...
1.) Dead people are alive.
2. We still have a sin nature.
3.) Water baptism is relevant.
4.) The Four Gospels are written to Christians.
5.) God is in control of everything that happens.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Cool. Do we agree on anything else the Catholics also believe in? Like...
1.) Dead people are alive.
2. We still have a sin nature.
3.) Water baptism is relevant.
4.) The Four Gospels are written to Christians.
5.) God is in control of everything that happens.

Please . even the churches that once had correct doctrine
and might still have it listed on the wall or in a log somewhere
has not even REALLY KNOWN IT at all .
Please . dont you realize by now people got their own opinions about what something might mean or say
AND so long as it dont expose their sin , THEY FINE with it .
Do you realize how many people there are in this world that can EVEN SAY GOD IS LOVE .
and yet upon simple examination of the love they so preach ONE WOULD SEE ITS OF THE DEVIL .
sorry peterlag but DOCTRINE DOES MATTER
and how one interprets it SURE DOES MATTER . i see tons of INCORRECTLY understood doctrines all over the place .
This generation has made its bed with a harlot . How bout we just read the bible for ourselves and learn .

 

[Peterlag]

Again, this is completely irrelevant. The knowledge, wisdom, and good news in the Word did not spring into being just because it was written down. Yes, the physical document that is the written Word began when pen was put to parchment. But the information contained in that written Word always existed, even before Creation. It is the same with Jesus. He existed before Creation as God. He did not spring into being just because He put on physical flesh.

Are you incapable of seeing this? Or are you so caught up in your false doctrine that you refuse to see it?

Again, you are fighting with yourself. I never said anything about knowledge, wisdom, and the good news in the Word had not sprung into being just because it was not written down.

You said that. And you keep saying that.

I said the "word" in writing had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again, you are fighting with yourself. I never said anything about knowledge, wisdom, and the good news in the Word had not sprung into being just because it was not written down.

You said that. And you keep saying that.

I said the "word" in writing had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

Pete, you are stuck on looking at the physical. I have already agreed that the physical did not exist until it was made.

But that does not in any way help your point. You were trying to use that fact to show that Jesus did not preexist His being made physical when He took on a body of flesh. But as I have pointed out many times, He did preexist being made physical as Scripture tells us He did. You are barking up the wrong tree with this line of argument, because it does not help your position at all.

 

[MTMattie]

Cool. Do we agree on anything else the Catholics also believe in? Like...
1.) Dead people are alive.
2. We still have a sin nature.
3.) Water baptism is relevant.
4.) The Four Gospels are written to Christians.
5.) God is in control of everything that happens.

Hmmmm.

1.) Dead people are alive. Are you meaning Death of the mortal body is the transitioning into eternal life?
I do not believe Dead people are alive. Their flesh will rot in the grave like all other humans.
2. We still have a sin nature. Pass

3.) Water baptism is relevant. No. Yes. Maybe. Probably. It will not save but is commanded by Christ.

4.) The Four Gospels are written to Christians. Mathew and Luke to the Jews, Mark to both Jews and Gentiles. John also to Jews and Gentiles.

5.) God is in control of everything that happens. No. He knows everything with His foreknowledge, and knows what is going to happen, but he is NOT a controller.... And if this is a RCC belief... I cannot believe God is moving the chess pieces so that so many priest get into pedophilia.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Pete, you are stuck on looking at the physical. I have already agreed that the physical did not exist until it was made.

But that does not in any way help your point. You were trying to use that fact to show that Jesus did not preexist His being made physical when He took on a body of flesh. But as I have pointed out many times, He did preexist being made physical as Scripture tells us He did. You are barking up the wrong tree with this line of argument, because it does not help your position at all.

the bark done been barked off the ol tree and its stripped its leaves , branches and even took the root .
From the root to the fruit we have us a problem in the house .
May i suggest and even perhaps beg and plead and even warn folks it really is time
to get back into the bible for ourselves .

 

[MTMattie]

Please . even the churches that once had correct doctrine
and might still have it listed on the wall or in a log somewhere
has not even REALLY KNOWN IT at all .
Please . dont you realize by now people got their own opinions about what something might mean or say
AND so long as it dont expose their sin , THEY FINE with it .
Do you realize how many people there are in this world that can EVEN SAY GOD IS LOVE .
and yet upon simple examination of the love they so preach ONE WOULD SEE ITS OF THE DEVIL .
sorry peterlag but DOCTRINE DOES MATTER
and how one interprets it SURE DOES MATTER . i see tons of INCORRECTLY understood doctrines all over the place .
This generation has made its bed with a harlot . How bout we just read the bible for ourselves and learn .

How bout we just read the bible for ourselves and learn .

Impossible. Everyone here reads the bible and when they do not like the wording go to another translation or
retranslate to suit themselves.

 

[Peterlag]

Hmmmm.

1.) Dead people are alive. Are you meaning Death of the mortal body is the transitioning into eternal life?
I do not believe Dead people are alive. Their flesh will rot in the grave like all other humans.
2. We still have a sin nature. Pass

3.) Water baptism is relevant. No. Yes. Maybe. Probably. It will not save but is commanded by Christ.

4.) The Four Gospels are written to Christians. Mathew and Luke to the Jews, Mark to both Jews and Gentiles. John also to Jews and Gentiles.

5.) God is in control of everything that happens. No. He knows everything with His foreknowledge, and knows what is going to happen, but he is NOT a controller.... And if this is a RCC belief... I cannot believe God is moving the chess pieces so that so many priest get into pedophilia.

One problem at a time. Foreknowledge:

It's indeed historically true that what has constituted the most frequent explanation in the church and in western culture for why people suffer is due to the fact that a man was born on the planet called Augustine. And so this concept of God being in control of both good and evil is why we often consider a secret "divine blueprint" behind everything that is both good and evil being somehow an extension of God's good (but very mysterious) will.

 

[Peterlag]

Pete, you are stuck on looking at the physical. I have already agreed that the physical did not exist until it was made.

But that does not in any way help your point. You were trying to use that fact to show that Jesus did not preexist His being made physical when He took on a body of flesh. But as I have pointed out many times, He did preexist being made physical as Scripture tells us He did. You are barking up the wrong tree with this line of argument, because it does not help your position at all.

My position is this...

The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

 

[Peterlag]

We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must continue...

to make up and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son of God” for the simple reason that he had a beginning. Trinitarian doctrine denies this and invents the phrase "God the son" and continues to invent non-biblical phrases such as eternally begotten, trinity, deity, and incarnated.

The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time.

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

 

[Doug Brents]

My position is this...

The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before.

Of course it did not exist in the flesh before it became flesh. But that does not in any way mean that it was not God, nor that it was not the same person that became Jesus from before Creation.

There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

You keep repeating the same nonsense over and over. This whole section is completely worthless nonsense.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

How bout we just read the bible for ourselves and learn .

Impossible. Everyone here reads the bible and when they do not like the wording go to another translation or
retranslate to suit themselves.

Be encouraged mattie . actually this is not true .
Everyone here , most learn it through the lens of some denomination , some teacher
and etc .
But i tell us all if we read it for ourselves , loving and enjoying and growing in the lovely truth
it had been very very simple indeed my friend .
I read it with a few others and none of us comes to a wrong or a contradictory understanding .
WE all agree . we enjoy reading it . No agenda , no denominatinal teaching
we just read and enjoy it . You would be so happy too . Things can clear up real easy in time .
Now UP on those feet mattie and to the trenches . IT BE LORD praising time in the building .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

How bout we just read the bible for ourselves and learn .

Impossible. Everyone here reads the bible and when they do not like the wording go to another translation or
retranslate to suit themselves.

On those feet and to the trenches . Its a new day
and we can start afresh in the LORD . Just let us read and enjoy the scriptures for ourselves .
be in prayer , be reading , be hearers and doers of the glorious Word .
Its easy mattie . We dont have to heed men
that tried to make it seem like we cannot learn for ourselves . BY HIS GRACE we can my friend .
HE will be with His sheep . now to the trenches and let none look back .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

How bout we just read the bible for ourselves and learn .

Impossible. Everyone here reads the bible and when they do not like the wording go to another translation or
retranslate to suit themselves.

When they do NOT LIKE the wording or etc , retranslate to suit who , THEMSELVES .
exactly .
But the sheep just love and enjoy the TRUTH .
sheep dont try and make it fit
they let the TRUTH simply build them up and teach them BY the SPIRIT .
You are correct when you said MOST do not . many run to men to hear what tickles the ear
NOT the TRUTH .

 

[MTMattie]

One problem at a time. Foreknowledge:

It's indeed historically true that what has constituted the most frequent explanation in the church and in western culture for why people suffer is due to the fact that a man was born on the planet called Augustine. And so this concept of God being in control of both good and evil is why we often consider a secret "divine blueprint" behind everything that is both good and evil being somehow an extension of God's good (but very mysterious) will.

Why is it a problem. I have foreknowledge to know you will counter every thing I say at this point.

 

[MTMattie]

When they do NOT LIKE the wording or etc , retranslate to suit who , THEMSELVES .
exactly .
But the sheep just love and enjoy the TRUTH .
sheep dont try and make it fit

You know why? because as a whole the bible fits itself. Ummm does that sound odd? Maybe I should say the pieces fit like a fine
jigsaw puzzle .

they let the TRUTH simply build them up and teach them BY the SPIRIT .
You are correct when you said MOST do not . many run to men to hear what tickles the ear
NOT the TRUTH .

And many keep right on believing even when shown the truth. And we know this how. Because when countered they deflect to
attacks and other diversions rather the counter with proof.

EVEN if that proof would or could be questionable... they defend it and I have more respect for the defenders of self belief then the diverters and deflectors.

 

[DavidTree]

Hmmmm.

1.) Dead people are alive. Are you meaning Death of the mortal body is the transitioning into eternal life?
I do not believe Dead people are alive. Their flesh will rot in the grave like all other humans.
2. We still have a sin nature. Pass

3.) Water baptism is relevant. No. Yes. Maybe. Probably. It will not save but is commanded by Christ.

4.) The Four Gospels are written to Christians. Mathew and Luke to the Jews, Mark to both Jews and Gentiles. John also to Jews and Gentiles.

5.) God is in control of everything that happens. No. He knows everything with His foreknowledge, and knows what is going to happen, but he is NOT a controller.... And if this is a RCC belief... I cannot believe God is moving the chess pieces so that so many priest get into pedophilia.

No. Yes. Maybe. Probably. It will not save but is commanded by Christ.

LOL - i loved this - thank you

 

[Peterlag]

Why is it a problem. I have foreknowledge to know you will counter every thing I say at this point.

Bingo and that's what I believe God has.

 

[Peterlag]

The reason you cannot come up with the 3 parts of God is because there are none. We can only come up with 2 which are...

1.) Jesus.
2.) Holy Spirit.
And Jack after that.

The original question...
If...

1.) Jesus is God.
2.) Holy Spirit is God.
3.) What's the third one________?

And please names and titles are not parts or living creatures. I am made of blood, skin, bones, nerves, etc. I am not made of brother, son, cousin, father, uncle, etc.

 

[MTMattie]

Bingo and that's what I believe God has.

Agreed. How could he not.

He is like a mother facing the sink or stove and saying No very loudly to one of the kids who
she cannot see. LOL

He Knows. He does not predestine.

Can we leave this alone now?