Thomas... My Lord and my God

[mikesw]

Yes I'm saying the 4 Gospels are not addressed to the Christian. There's a whole bunch of stuff in there that we can learn from and even a lot that also applies to us. But much of it was written concerning Israel who was who Jesus came to and Christians were not even on the planet yet. Who and what we have is written in the Epistles and the Catholics veer us away from that by making the 4 Gospels look like they are what the Christians should be reading. Now don't get me wrong I love the Gospel of John. The whole book, but the Lords prayer is not addressed to Christians.

Christians were on the planet when the gospels were written. Many had been around for 30 or more years and then became those Christians.

The gospels were written for Christians. But you are half right. The prayer was given as a model prayer for Jews with strong elements of the gospel for them. Although the interactions were usually focused on problems of the Pharisees, the appearance of the promised Messiah and many principles and the miracles are testimony and content for the Christians. You are half right since many details in Matthew were directed to knowledge important for Jews to know before judgment came upon them.
The fourth gospel does have more of the details pertinent to Christians, especially the testimony of the divinity of Christ. Also, Paul's writings reflect principles and issues consistent with the gospels but extended to gentiles. You may be recognizing some of those details but you veer off quite a distance when denying the testimony of the deity of Christ Jesus in the incarnation.

 

[Peterlag]

Christians were on the planet when the gospels were written. Many had been around for 30 or more years and then became those Christians.

The gospels were written for Christians. But you are half right. The prayer was given as a model prayer for Jews with strong elements of the gospel for them. Although the interactions were usually focused on problems of the Pharisees, the appearance of the promised Messiah and many principles and the miracles are testimony and content for the Christians. You are half right since many details in Matthew were directed to knowledge important for Jews to know before judgment came upon them.
The fourth gospel does have more of the details pertinent to Christians, especially the testimony of the divinity of Christ. Also, Paul's writings reflect principles and issues consistent with the gospels but extended to gentiles. You may be recognizing some of those details but you veer off quite a distance when denying the testimony of the deity of Christ Jesus in the incarnation.

We are not talking about when the Gospels were written. We are talking about the time period the Gospels were written concerning.

The Legal administration is suited only to Israel under the Law, and is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.

The Christ administration overlapped and functioned within the Law administration. Both the Law and the Christ administration officially ended with the coming of Pentecost.

The present administration of Grace is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.

 

[mikesw]

We are not talking about when the Gospels were written. We are talking about the time period the Gospels were written concerning.

Those periods overlap sufficiently. Matthew obviously would be written early enough to be useful to warn Jews of the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment upon them. It is not a stretch to say that many Jews and gentiles who first followed Christ were born even around the time Jesus was. It is possible the gospel was written as a somewhat late record of what Jesus said would happen. So indeed the travels and encounters of Jesus are before the day of Pentecost. When reading the gospels it helps to keep in mind these were interactions with Jews.
I don't know what Roman Catholics promote in scripture but that hardly matters. All scripture is useful for the Christians to know God and Christ Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

Those periods overlap sufficiently. Matthew obviously would be written early enough to be useful to warn Jews of the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment upon them. It is not a stretch to say that many Jews and gentiles who first followed Christ were born even around the time Jesus was. It is possible the gospel was written as a somewhat late record of what Jesus said would happen. So indeed the travels and encounters of Jesus are before the day of Pentecost. When reading the gospels it helps to keep in mind these were interactions with Jews.
I don't know what Roman Catholics promote in scripture but that hardly matters. All scripture is useful for the Christians to know God and Christ Jesus.

It is a stretch to suggest anyone was born again before it was available and Matthew was not obviously written early enough to be useful. The book was written concerning the time period of The Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration.

 

[mikesw]

It is a stretch to suggest anyone was born again before it was available and Matthew was not obviously written early enough to be useful. The book was written concerning the time period of The Christ administration that overlapped and functioned within the Law administration.

I was not talking about the people becoming Christians before around 30AD but just that they were alive at that time. It is often noted that the gospels were written before the destruction of Jerusalem since they do not refer to its final destruction. It hardly would be useful to write Matthew too late for Jews to be aware of the judgment before it happened. Some details would not have needed to be shared unless it helped Jews to come to Christ ahead of that judgment.
All scripture is good for study and to give testimony of Christ in the flesh and his death and resurrection.

 

[Peterlag]

I was not talking about the people becoming Christians before around 30AD but just that they were alive at that time. It is often noted that the gospels were written before the destruction of Jerusalem since they do not refer to its final destruction. It hardly would be useful to write Matthew too late for Jews to be aware of the judgment before it happened. Some details would not have needed to be shared unless it helped Jews to come to Christ ahead of that judgment.
All scripture is good for study and to give testimony of Christ in the flesh and his death and resurrection.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

 

[101G]

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

yes, for the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit in the new resurrected body that is the .... "FIRST FRUIT" .... of the new creation. that mystery has long been KNOWN, even from the beginning of man's fall. that seed, .... "ONE", and not many, but ONE who is God to come in his own image... "MAN". now glorified in his OWN Spirit. .... THE HOLY SPIRIT, who came on Pentecost, God third administration in this world.

101G.

 

[mikesw]

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection, he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

Great. You made up a conception of "administrations." It sounds like another weird doctrine held by unitarians that is unscriptural. The mystery that Paul recognized in scripture is that gentiles were to be part of the same body and partakers of the promises in Christ Jesus. This is not described as some middle-of-the-road era of grace. The grace is continual through Christ Jesus. The revelation was not of something undisclosed before but that the disclosure appeared only to be to Jews, namely of the status of everlasting righteousness. Paul's stewardship of the gospel to the gentiles then ended when he died. Also, what is the next phase that you imagine to be part of God's plan?

 

[Peterlag]

Great. You made up a conception of "administrations." It sounds like another weird doctrine held by unitarians that is unscriptural. The mystery that Paul recognized in scripture is that gentiles were to be part of the same body and partakers of the promises in Christ Jesus. This is not described as some middle-of-the-road era of grace. The grace is continual through Christ Jesus. The revelation was not of something undisclosed before but that the disclosure appeared only to be to Jews, namely of the status of everlasting righteousness. Paul's stewardship of the gospel to the gentiles then ended when he died. Also, what is the next phase that you imagine to be part of God's plan?

I'm beginning to think I can't help you understand the Scriptures better. The mystery that Paul recognized in scripture that gentiles were to be part of the same body and partakers of the promises in Christ Jesus is set within the administration of Grace.

 

[mikesw]

I'm beginning to think I can't help you understand the Scriptures better. The mystery that Paul recognized in scripture that gentiles were to be part of the same body and partakers of the promises in Christ Jesus is set within the administration of Grace.

No worries. You actually helped me understand more of the scriptural basis that reveals the Triune God.

 

[Peterlag]

No worries. You actually helped me understand more of the scriptural basis that reveals the Triune God.

The only thing trinitarians have is their own imagination, human reasoning, and picking one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here and a clue there and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human reasoning process, speculations and assumptions. Nothing more. It's not the true and living God of the Bible, the God of Israel, the God of the Apostles, or the God of Jesus. The trinity is an IDOL made by man and that is the reason why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The trinitarian God is a philosophical construct of their own minds that they literally built up like a Lego.

 

[mikesw]

The only thing trinitarians have is their own imagination, human reasoning, and picking one verse here, and another verse there, a hint here and a clue there and then they construct their "own God" which is the product of their own human reasoning process, speculations and assumptions. Nothing more. It's not the true and living God of the Bible, the God of Israel, the God of the Apostles, or the God of Jesus. The trinity is an IDOL made by man and that is the reason why they cannot present one single biblical verse that clearly teaches that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. The trinitarian God is a philosophical construct of their own minds that they literally built up like a Lego.

It is sad to see your hyper-literalist view overtaking the message of scripture. It is doubly worse that you call God's identity as idolatry. There are plenty of ideas in scripture that reveal truth but are not written in grade school plain text -- like much of prophecy. To add to all this, your interpretation of passages like John 1 are too convoluted -- and thus are not convincing. You have not give any sufficient argument to turn us away from what scripture shares.

 

[Peterlag]

It is sad to see your hyper-literalist view overtaking the message of scripture. It is doubly worse that you call God's identity as idolatry. There are plenty of ideas in scripture that reveal truth but are not written in grade school plain text -- like much of prophecy. To add to all this, your interpretation of passages like John 1 are too convoluted -- and thus are not convincing. You have not give any sufficient argument to turn us away from what scripture shares.

Is this a better post for you?

The words “HOLY SPIRIT” in the Bible are primarily used in two very different ways: One way is to refer to God Himself and the other is referring to God’s nature that He gives to people. God is holy and is spirit and therefore “the Holy Spirit” with a capital “H” and a capital “S” is one of the many “names” or designations for God. God gives His holy spirit nature to people as a gift and when HOLY SPIRIT is used that way it should be translated as the “holy spirit” with a lowercase “h” and a lowercase “s.” The Bible says there is one God, and one Lord, who is the man Jesus Christ; and one gift of the holy spirit. Most Christians are aware that the original manuscripts of the Bible were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. However, it's not well known that Hebrew and Aramaic do not have uppercase and lowercase letters, but rather they just have one form for their letters.

Greek does have upper and lowercase letters, but the early Greek manuscripts were all written with only uppercase letters. Therefore, the early manuscripts had no such thing as the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because what was always written was the "HOLY SPIRIT." The capital or lowercase letters are always a translator’s interpretation whenever we read “Holy Spirit” or“ holy spirit” or “Spirit” or “spirit” in the English Bible. The difference is usually due to the theology of the translator. The bottom line is we cannot know from the Hebrew or Greek texts whether the Author meant the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because we must decide based on the context and scope of Scripture whether the reference being made is to God or God’s gift.

There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh” which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” But God is also referred to as Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days, the Holy One of Israel, Father, Shield, and by many more designations. Furthermore, God is holy (Leviticus 11:44), which is why He was called “the Holy One” (the Hebrew text uses the singular adjective “holy” to designate “the Holy One." He is also spirit (John 4:24). It makes perfect sense since God is holy and God is spirit that “Holy” and “Spirit” are sometimes combined and used as one of the many designations for God. Thus, the Hebrew or Greek words for the "HOLY SPIRIT" should be brought into English as the "Holy Spirit” when the subject of averse is God.

None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person” in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is “holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.

God put the holy spirit upon Jesus immediately after he was baptized by John the Baptist because Jesus himself needed God’s gift of the holy spirit to have supernatural power just as the leaders and prophets of the Old Testament did. This fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies that God would put the holy spirit upon the Messiah enabling him in his ministry. The gift of the holy spirit was born “in” believers (John 14:17) after the Day of Pentecost rather than resting “upon” them and this is one reason why Christians are said to be “born again” of God’s spirit (1Peter 1:3, 23). Christians have spiritual power when they receive the gift of the holy spirit (Acts 1:8) because the holy spirit is born in them and becomes part of their very nature, and this is why Christians are called God’s “holy ones” which is usually translated as “saints” in the New Testament.

God put His gift of the “holy spirit” or the “spirit” on as many people as He deemed necessary in the Old Testament, and we see this when we look at how God took the spirit that was upon Moses and put it upon the70 elders of Israel. However, today everyone who makes Jesus Christ their Lord receives the indwelling gift of the holy spirit and that's why Peter on the Day of Pentecost quoted the prophecy in Joel that said God would “pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh." Many scholars admit the concept of the Trinity that also includes reference to the "Holy Spirit” as an independent “Person” cannot be found in the Old Testament. The Jews to whom the Old Testament was given did not recognize any such being. It's a well-known historical fact that “Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone,” was the cry of Israel. No verse or context openly states or even directly infers that there is a separate “Person” called “the Holy Spirit."

Almost every English version translates John 14:17 similarly to “even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Translators capitalize “Spirit” and use “he” and “him” because of their theology. The Greek word “spirit” is neuter and the text could also be translated as “the spirit of truth” and paired with “which” and “it.” The New American Bible reads “which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it.” Capitalizing the “H” and “S” and using the English pronoun “He” is appropriate when God is being referred to as “the Holy Spirit.” However, when we see the “h” and “s” having the lowercase such as "the holy spirit" and all the pronouns referring to that spirit being impersonal such as “it” and “which” is when the subject under discussion is the gift of God’s nature.

One of the ways we know that “pneuma hagion” often refers to the gift of God’s nature is that it “belongs” to God, who calls it “my” spirit. The spirit is called “God’s” spirit in many verses and King David understood the holy spirit belonged to God because he wrote “…do not take your holy spirit from me.” The Bible shows us that “the holy spirit” is under God’s authority and direction, which makes sense when we understand it's the gift of His nature that He gives to believers. The words “Messiah” in Hebrew (mashiyach מָשִׁיחַ) and “Christ” in Greek (christosΧριστός) both mean “anointed one.” Thus, the early Christians would have known him as “Jesus the anointed one.” God “anointed” Jesus Christ with the holy spirit and that's why Jesus was said to have been “anointed” even though people knew he had never been formally anointed with oil (Acts 4:27;10:38).

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name“ Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

The “holy spirit” God gave in the Old Testament was God’s nature, but after the Day of Pentecost He gave His nature in a new and fuller way than He had ever given it before and this is what was foretold in the Old Testament (Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26). It was because this new spirit was promised in the Old Testament that the New Testament calls it “the promised holy spirit” Ephesians 1:13; Acts 2:33; Galatians 3:14). We have the “first fruits” of the spirit (Romans 8:23) because Christians are the first to receive this new spirit and that's why we have the guarantee that we will be in the coming Messianic Kingdom.

The gift of the holy spirit that Christians have is a gift and thus an “it.” Jesus told the apostles that the spirit would be “in” them (John14:17)—which is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when the holy spirit went from being with or “upon” people in the Old Testament and Gospels to being born “in” people on and after the Day of Pentecost. The spirit is sent by the Father (John 14:16-17) and Jesus (John 16:7). It does not speak on its own, but it speaks only what it hears (John 16:13). Thus, the gift of the holy spirit is directed by God and Jesus, which is what we would expect since it's God’s nature born in us. The gift of the holy spirit is the nature of God, and when it's born in us it becomes part of our very nature (2 Peter 1:4).

God does not change, but the gift of God’s holy spirit that believers have today is different from the spirit that God gave in the Old Testament, and so the gift of God’s spirit has changed. The simple and straightforward reading of the Scripture is that there is one God, who is sometimes referred to as “the Holy Spirit” and one Lord who is the man Jesus Christ, and one gift of the holy spirit that is the nature of God that He gives to people.

 

[mikesw]

Is this a better post for you?

The words “HOLY SPIRIT” in the Bible are primarily used in two very different ways: One way is to refer to God Himself and the other is referring to God’s nature that He gives to people. God is holy and is spirit and therefore “the Holy Spirit” with a capital “H” and a capital “S” is one of the many “names” or designations for God. God gives His holy spirit nature to people as a gift and when HOLY SPIRIT is used that way it should be translated as the “holy spirit” with a lowercase “h” and a lowercase “s.” The Bible says there is one God, and one Lord, who is the man Jesus Christ; and one gift of the holy spirit. Most Christians are aware that the original manuscripts of the Bible were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. However, it's not well known that Hebrew and Aramaic do not have uppercase and lowercase letters, but rather they just have one form for their letters.

Greek does have upper and lowercase letters, but the early Greek manuscripts were all written with only uppercase letters. Therefore, the early manuscripts had no such thing as the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because what was always written was the "HOLY SPIRIT." The capital or lowercase letters are always a translator’s interpretation whenever we read “Holy Spirit” or“ holy spirit” or “Spirit” or “spirit” in the English Bible. The difference is usually due to the theology of the translator. The bottom line is we cannot know from the Hebrew or Greek texts whether the Author meant the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because we must decide based on the context and scope of Scripture whether the reference being made is to God or God’s gift.

There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh” which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” But God is also referred to as Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days, the Holy One of Israel, Father, Shield, and by many more designations. Furthermore, God is holy (Leviticus 11:44), which is why He was called “the Holy One” (the Hebrew text uses the singular adjective “holy” to designate “the Holy One." He is also spirit (John 4:24). It makes perfect sense since God is holy and God is spirit that “Holy” and “Spirit” are sometimes combined and used as one of the many designations for God. Thus, the Hebrew or Greek words for the "HOLY SPIRIT" should be brought into English as the "Holy Spirit” when the subject of averse is God.

None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person” in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is “holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.

God put the holy spirit upon Jesus immediately after he was baptized by John the Baptist because Jesus himself needed God’s gift of the holy spirit to have supernatural power just as the leaders and prophets of the Old Testament did. This fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies that God would put the holy spirit upon the Messiah enabling him in his ministry. The gift of the holy spirit was born “in” believers (John 14:17) after the Day of Pentecost rather than resting “upon” them and this is one reason why Christians are said to be “born again” of God’s spirit (1Peter 1:3, 23). Christians have spiritual power when they receive the gift of the holy spirit (Acts 1:8) because the holy spirit is born in them and becomes part of their very nature, and this is why Christians are called God’s “holy ones” which is usually translated as “saints” in the New Testament.

God put His gift of the “holy spirit” or the “spirit” on as many people as He deemed necessary in the Old Testament, and we see this when we look at how God took the spirit that was upon Moses and put it upon the70 elders of Israel. However, today everyone who makes Jesus Christ their Lord receives the indwelling gift of the holy spirit and that's why Peter on the Day of Pentecost quoted the prophecy in Joel that said God would “pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh." Many scholars admit the concept of the Trinity that also includes reference to the "Holy Spirit” as an independent “Person” cannot be found in the Old Testament. The Jews to whom the Old Testament was given did not recognize any such being. It's a well-known historical fact that “Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone,” was the cry of Israel. No verse or context openly states or even directly infers that there is a separate “Person” called “the Holy Spirit."

Almost every English version translates John 14:17 similarly to “even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Translators capitalize “Spirit” and use “he” and “him” because of their theology. The Greek word “spirit” is neuter and the text could also be translated as “the spirit of truth” and paired with “which” and “it.” The New American Bible reads “which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it.” Capitalizing the “H” and “S” and using the English pronoun “He” is appropriate when God is being referred to as “the Holy Spirit.” However, when we see the “h” and “s” having the lowercase such as "the holy spirit" and all the pronouns referring to that spirit being impersonal such as “it” and “which” is when the subject under discussion is the gift of God’s nature.

One of the ways we know that “pneuma hagion” often refers to the gift of God’s nature is that it “belongs” to God, who calls it “my” spirit. The spirit is called “God’s” spirit in many verses and King David understood the holy spirit belonged to God because he wrote “…do not take your holy spirit from me.” The Bible shows us that “the holy spirit” is under God’s authority and direction, which makes sense when we understand it's the gift of His nature that He gives to believers. The words “Messiah” in Hebrew (mashiyach מָשִׁיחַ) and “Christ” in Greek (christosΧριστός) both mean “anointed one.” Thus, the early Christians would have known him as “Jesus the anointed one.” God “anointed” Jesus Christ with the holy spirit and that's why Jesus was said to have been “anointed” even though people knew he had never been formally anointed with oil (Acts 4:27;10:38).

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name“ Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

The “holy spirit” God gave in the Old Testament was God’s nature, but after the Day of Pentecost He gave His nature in a new and fuller way than He had ever given it before and this is what was foretold in the Old Testament (Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26). It was because this new spirit was promised in the Old Testament that the New Testament calls it “the promised holy spirit” Ephesians 1:13; Acts 2:33; Galatians 3:14). We have the “first fruits” of the spirit (Romans 8:23) because Christians are the first to receive this new spirit and that's why we have the guarantee that we will be in the coming Messianic Kingdom.

The gift of the holy spirit that Christians have is a gift and thus an “it.” Jesus told the apostles that the spirit would be “in” them (John14:17)—which is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when the holy spirit went from being with or “upon” people in the Old Testament and Gospels to being born “in” people on and after the Day of Pentecost. The spirit is sent by the Father (John 14:16-17) and Jesus (John 16:7). It does not speak on its own, but it speaks only what it hears (John 16:13). Thus, the gift of the holy spirit is directed by God and Jesus, which is what we would expect since it's God’s nature born in us. The gift of the holy spirit is the nature of God, and when it's born in us it becomes part of our very nature (2 Peter 1:4).

God does not change, but the gift of God’s holy spirit that believers have today is different from the spirit that God gave in the Old Testament, and so the gift of God’s spirit has changed. The simple and straightforward reading of the Scripture is that there is one God, who is sometimes referred to as “the Holy Spirit” and one Lord who is the man Jesus Christ, and one gift of the holy spirit that is the nature of God that He gives to people.

The Holy Spirit also is identified as Christ's Spirit. So this points to the Trinity. But I know you have imagined excuses not to recognize passages like that as the true God.

 

[TomL]

I am going to ping @TomL on this one too since he thinks John was preparing the way for Jesus.

So after John had already came preaching, John 1:9 uses the present tense to say the true Light was coming into the world. Means to say, this would place John and Jesus both at around the age of 30 years old by the time God was coming into the world (again) so there is no room for an incarnation to speak of in John 1 and Jesus is a man who came into world like everyone else.

John 1 (NIV)
9The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.

Indeed he did

John 1:6–17 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Maybe you should just believe what is written instead of inventing reasons for disbelief

John 1:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 

[mikesw]

Is this a better post for you?

The words “HOLY SPIRIT” in the Bible are primarily used in two very different ways: One way is to refer to God Himself and the other is referring to God’s nature that He gives to people. God is holy and is spirit and therefore “the Holy Spirit” with a capital “H” and a capital “S” is one of the many “names” or designations for God. God gives His holy spirit nature to people as a gift and when HOLY SPIRIT is used that way it should be translated as the “holy spirit” with a lowercase “h” and a lowercase “s.” The Bible says there is one God, and one Lord, who is the man Jesus Christ; and one gift of the holy spirit. Most Christians are aware that the original manuscripts of the Bible were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. However, it's not well known that Hebrew and Aramaic do not have uppercase and lowercase letters, but rather they just have one form for their letters.

Greek does have upper and lowercase letters, but the early Greek manuscripts were all written with only uppercase letters. Therefore, the early manuscripts had no such thing as the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because what was always written was the "HOLY SPIRIT." The capital or lowercase letters are always a translator’s interpretation whenever we read “Holy Spirit” or“ holy spirit” or “Spirit” or “spirit” in the English Bible. The difference is usually due to the theology of the translator. The bottom line is we cannot know from the Hebrew or Greek texts whether the Author meant the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because we must decide based on the context and scope of Scripture whether the reference being made is to God or God’s gift.

There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh” which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” But God is also referred to as Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days, the Holy One of Israel, Father, Shield, and by many more designations. Furthermore, God is holy (Leviticus 11:44), which is why He was called “the Holy One” (the Hebrew text uses the singular adjective “holy” to designate “the Holy One." He is also spirit (John 4:24). It makes perfect sense since God is holy and God is spirit that “Holy” and “Spirit” are sometimes combined and used as one of the many designations for God. Thus, the Hebrew or Greek words for the "HOLY SPIRIT" should be brought into English as the "Holy Spirit” when the subject of averse is God.

None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person” in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is “holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.

God put the holy spirit upon Jesus immediately after he was baptized by John the Baptist because Jesus himself needed God’s gift of the holy spirit to have supernatural power just as the leaders and prophets of the Old Testament did. This fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies that God would put the holy spirit upon the Messiah enabling him in his ministry. The gift of the holy spirit was born “in” believers (John 14:17) after the Day of Pentecost rather than resting “upon” them and this is one reason why Christians are said to be “born again” of God’s spirit (1Peter 1:3, 23). Christians have spiritual power when they receive the gift of the holy spirit (Acts 1:8) because the holy spirit is born in them and becomes part of their very nature, and this is why Christians are called God’s “holy ones” which is usually translated as “saints” in the New Testament.

God put His gift of the “holy spirit” or the “spirit” on as many people as He deemed necessary in the Old Testament, and we see this when we look at how God took the spirit that was upon Moses and put it upon the70 elders of Israel. However, today everyone who makes Jesus Christ their Lord receives the indwelling gift of the holy spirit and that's why Peter on the Day of Pentecost quoted the prophecy in Joel that said God would “pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh." Many scholars admit the concept of the Trinity that also includes reference to the "Holy Spirit” as an independent “Person” cannot be found in the Old Testament. The Jews to whom the Old Testament was given did not recognize any such being. It's a well-known historical fact that “Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone,” was the cry of Israel. No verse or context openly states or even directly infers that there is a separate “Person” called “the Holy Spirit."

Almost every English version translates John 14:17 similarly to “even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” Translators capitalize “Spirit” and use “he” and “him” because of their theology. The Greek word “spirit” is neuter and the text could also be translated as “the spirit of truth” and paired with “which” and “it.” The New American Bible reads “which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it.” Capitalizing the “H” and “S” and using the English pronoun “He” is appropriate when God is being referred to as “the Holy Spirit.” However, when we see the “h” and “s” having the lowercase such as "the holy spirit" and all the pronouns referring to that spirit being impersonal such as “it” and “which” is when the subject under discussion is the gift of God’s nature.

One of the ways we know that “pneuma hagion” often refers to the gift of God’s nature is that it “belongs” to God, who calls it “my” spirit. The spirit is called “God’s” spirit in many verses and King David understood the holy spirit belonged to God because he wrote “…do not take your holy spirit from me.” The Bible shows us that “the holy spirit” is under God’s authority and direction, which makes sense when we understand it's the gift of His nature that He gives to believers. The words “Messiah” in Hebrew (mashiyach מָשִׁיחַ) and “Christ” in Greek (christosΧριστός) both mean “anointed one.” Thus, the early Christians would have known him as “Jesus the anointed one.” God “anointed” Jesus Christ with the holy spirit and that's why Jesus was said to have been “anointed” even though people knew he had never been formally anointed with oil (Acts 4:27;10:38).

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name“ Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

The “holy spirit” God gave in the Old Testament was God’s nature, but after the Day of Pentecost He gave His nature in a new and fuller way than He had ever given it before and this is what was foretold in the Old Testament (Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26). It was because this new spirit was promised in the Old Testament that the New Testament calls it “the promised holy spirit” Ephesians 1:13; Acts 2:33; Galatians 3:14). We have the “first fruits” of the spirit (Romans 8:23) because Christians are the first to receive this new spirit and that's why we have the guarantee that we will be in the coming Messianic Kingdom.

The gift of the holy spirit that Christians have is a gift and thus an “it.” Jesus told the apostles that the spirit would be “in” them (John14:17)—which is what happened on the Day of Pentecost when the holy spirit went from being with or “upon” people in the Old Testament and Gospels to being born “in” people on and after the Day of Pentecost. The spirit is sent by the Father (John 14:16-17) and Jesus (John 16:7). It does not speak on its own, but it speaks only what it hears (John 16:13). Thus, the gift of the holy spirit is directed by God and Jesus, which is what we would expect since it's God’s nature born in us. The gift of the holy spirit is the nature of God, and when it's born in us it becomes part of our very nature (2 Peter 1:4).

God does not change, but the gift of God’s holy spirit that believers have today is different from the spirit that God gave in the Old Testament, and so the gift of God’s spirit has changed. The simple and straightforward reading of the Scripture is that there is one God, who is sometimes referred to as “the Holy Spirit” and one Lord who is the man Jesus Christ, and one gift of the holy spirit that is the nature of God that He gives to people.

The Greek lesson is not so helpful for the current argument but may be useful to some people for background details. It is not the interpretation of your favored verses that are critical. It is necessary to explain the meaning of the multitude of passages that speak ambiguously about the divinity of Christ or are more clear about it (as in John 1).

 

[Peterlag]

The Holy Spirit also is identified as Christ's Spirit. So this points to the Trinity. But I know you have imagined excuses not to recognize passages like that as the true God.

The spirit of Christ is the same spirit that is in us. Sometimes it's called the spirit and other times it's called holy spirit and other times it's called God's spirit and at other times it's called the spirit of Christ. It's the same gift of God's spirit that we receive when we are born again. This is not rocket science. Sometimes you are called a guy and sometimes you are called human and sometimes you are called a man and sometimes you are called flesh and blood. That does not mean there's 5 of you or that there's a real person called human that make up two of you.

 

[TibiasDad]

Because Jesus had called them sons of the devil, discovered their murderous intentions and nullified the importance of their status as descendants of Abraham. Please read the whole chapter, @atpollard.
Those wanting to stone Him were not sincere monotheists concerned about a theological blasphemy. They were wicked people getting mad at He who had revealed the evil in his hearts.

Now Let me ask you two questions:

1. If Jesus had been so so clear in his Godhood, why wasn’t he accused of that specific blasphemy during his trial before the Sanhedrin?
Wouldn’t such confession be the most direct way to sentence Him to death? Instead, he was accused of blasphemy against the Temple and He was questioned about his status as the Messiah.

2. When you say “equality with God” in your post, who is this God you are referring to?

John 10:31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Doug

 

[civic]

John 10:31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Doug

Anyone without a bias can clearly see Jesus claimed to be God ( YHWH ) in that passage and many others. Its just another example of how presuppositions and what they have been taught by men ( not God ) clouds their understanding of scripture.

 

[TibiasDad]

If any of you travelled in a time machine to Jerusalem in those days, you would have tried to persuade Jews to accept Jesus as their Messiah... not as their God!!!!

Acts 2:34“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.” ’ <a href="https://biblehub.com/niv/acts/2.htm#footnotes" title="Psalm 110:1">f</a>
36“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”