Thomas... My Lord and my God

[Runningman]

cyclic reasoning. Of course God, Jesus and the apostles used Biblical vocabulary because uhhh that refers to the words in the Bible. I see how you can rely on cyclic reasoning to lead you astray.

You are confused because you use a loaded language by limiting God and his divine Son by the words on a page. That merely lets heretics get away with diminishing Christ. Plus, the unitarians dismiss the pre-existence of Christ and verses most clearly about Jesus as God. Why not just stick with the pre-existence and Christ's divinity? Oh. Because the scriptures testify against the unitarian view.

Better to quote them and represent them using the word they used to represente themselves.

You don’t want to remain guilty of bearing false witness witness of God, Jesus, and the apostles do you? Then better you don’t put words in their mouth. If you insist on your trinity narrative then put a heavy emphasis on it being your opinions and/or religious beliefs.

 

[Runningman]

Maybe I can find some software program that can help expand your vocabulary. If you have been using the Schoenheit Unitarian Pocket Dictionary, maybe you can get the Webster's Third New International Dictionary. Then you can participate in the discussions a bit better.

Why do you insist on Peter expanding his vocabulary about this point when he’s just using the same vocabulary as God, Jesus, and the apostles? Jesus never used your vocabulary so do you recommend to Jesus he also get a better dictionary? Actually, if Jesus could login to this very chat he would be talking like how Peter and I do. You would no doubt argue with him until you wear yourself out. Jesus never once affirmed your religion, but he affirmed ours. Ouch.

 

[Runningman]

so you do not have an argument against the verses about the divinity of Christ in the Godhead. You just have a philosophical preference for words you find in the Schoenheit Unitarian pocket dictionary. If that is your preference over the testimony of scripture, that is your option for your belief system.

I think you’re proving Peter’s point here because there is no verse about Jesus being “in the Godhead” in the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

people had to make up all the English words. You even use words of pagan origin. You better not use the words in any discussion. You are not making scriptural arguments against the evidence of Jesus's pre-existence and of his divinity in the Godhead. You are playing word games. That does not suffice for debate purposes even if it works for a few of your friends.

So the Bible doesn’t contain even a trace of the trinity unless you distort it using your various propaganda techniques. The more I’ve talked to you the more I’ve realized that trinitarian folks are master manipulators. Not only is your religion unpalatable from from a biblical perspective, but there are good moral reasons to object to the lies of trinitarianism as well.

 

[civic]

Thank you for your words. I agree: it isn’t arguments that soften hearts, but love, compassion, and service. That is also how I understand kenosis — not as theory, but as the emptying of self so Christ’s love can shine. I appreciate your welcome.

You left out a couple important ones in the softening of the heart- Gods word and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

people had to make up all the English words. You even use words of pagan origin. You better not use the words in any discussion. You are not making scriptural arguments against the evidence of Jesus's pre-existence and of his divinity in the Godhead. You are playing word games. That does not suffice for debate purposes even if it works for a few of your friends.

The words "pre-existence" and "divinity" are not found in the Bible because there are no such concepts in biblical terms. Those words come from trinity folks like you who make them up because they are not in the Bible. And then you say that I should learn to use more words... words that are not in the Bible to talk about the Bible. In fact, not only are these two words you mention "pre-existence" and "divinity" not in the Bible. But niether are these...

• Deity
• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated
• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son
• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

 

[mikesw]

Why do you insist on Peter expanding his vocabulary about this point when he’s just using the same vocabulary as God, Jesus, and the apostles? Jesus never used your vocabulary so do you recommend to Jesus he also get a better dictionary? Actually, if Jesus could login to this very chat he would be talking like how Peter and I do. You would no doubt argue with him until you wear yourself out. Jesus never once affirmed your religion, but he affirmed ours. Ouch.

Wow. that is your argument that Jesus would say what you and peterlag say? This again proves your circular reasoning. You can only justify your view by saying Jesus is constrained to say what you and Peterlag say. No wonder you are confused.

 

[mikesw]

The words "pre-existence" and "divinity" are not found in the Bible because there are no such concepts in biblical terms. Those words come from trinity folks like you who make them up because they are not in the Bible. And then you say that I should learn to use more words... words that are not in the Bible to talk about the Bible. In fact, not only are these two words you mention "pre-existence" and "divinity" not in the Bible. But niether are these...

• Deity

Uh. Deity is God. So you are disallowing synonyms in the discussion.

• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated

Maybe you do not realize that Jesus came in the flesh. That has a simpler term -- Incarnation

• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son

So you cannot rearrange words that have the same meaning?

• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

Instead of backing off the Schoenheit unitarian pocket dictionary, you press deeper for loading the language to prevent reasonable discussion.

Of course if just talking about quotes of scripture, there is no need to get in technical discussions from later Trinitarian doctrine. But those terms are necessary to point out heresies that will try to sneak into the Church. Since you are pushing heresy then you hate the safeguards against your Arianism. How convenient then that you try to load the argument by removing these safeguards. But as long as you recognizing the divinity of Christ, it is not so critical that you understand all details of the Triune God.

 

[mikesw]

I think you’re proving Peter’s point here because there is no verse about Jesus being “in the Godhead” in the Bible.

No wonder you do not comprehend God. You cannot even comprehend the way I explained my use of "Godhead." That means you are either forgetful, unthinking, or deceptive.

 

[Peterlag]

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

I have noticed we graduate from all the other subjects be it accounting, mechanics or dentistry. We study the books and complete the course that brings us to the required accomplished task which is the ability to know how to do something. We study a map to learn how to get some place. Thus, our study ends with us able to get from point A to point B, fix atooth, balance the financial numbers or build the car. How come we spend our entire lives studying the Bible and yet nobody seems to graduate?

What I believe I have been able to graduate from is the following verse...

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

This cannot be achieved if we do not know the attributes and characteristics of the resurrected Christ Jesus.

I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

Why do the Trinity folks only think God had to be talking to Jesus when He said let us?

He could have been talking to anyone of His angel like creatures like the Cherubims. Or maybe His dog. Don't laugh. He may have given you the same personality as His Dog.

 

[dwight92070]

The words "pre-existence" and "divinity" are not found in the Bible because there are no such concepts in biblical terms. Those words come from trinity folks like you who make them up because they are not in the Bible. And then you say that I should learn to use more words... words that are not in the Bible to talk about the Bible. In fact, not only are these two words you mention "pre-existence" and "divinity" not in the Bible. But niether are these...

• Deity
• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated
• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son
• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

The following words are not in the Bible:

car
airplane
computer
artificial intelligence
rocket
cell phone
space ship
jet
keyboard
printer
copier
camera
telescope
light bulb
kite
balloon
microwave
radio
television
glasses
gun
microscope
nuclear bomb
assembly line
cannon
steamship

Do I really have to explain this? Apparently I do, since you constantly are trying to make this stupid point, that because words are not found in the Bible, therefore they cannot be true or valid. Anyone with half a brain knows better. Maybe that's why you don't.

 

[dwight92070]

Why do the Trinity folks only think God had to be talking to Jesus when He said let us?

He could have been talking to anyone of His angel like creatures like the Cherubims. Or maybe His dog. Don't laugh. He may have given you the same personality as His Dog.

View attachment 2287

Another foolish statement. When He said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; ..." The angels did NOT participate in making man or anything else, nor was man made in the angel's image or likeness. Typical coming from a heretic.

 

[dwight92070]

The following words are not in the Bible:

car
airplane
computer
artificial intelligence
rocket
cell phone
space ship
jet
keyboard
printer
copier
camera
telescope
light bulb
kite
balloon
microwave
radio
television
glasses
gun
microscope
nuclear bomb
assembly line
cannon
steamship

Do I really have to explain this? Apparently I do, since you constantly are trying to make this stupid point, that because words are not found in the Bible, therefore they cannot be true or valid. Anyone with half a brain knows better. Maybe that's why you don't.

 

[Peterlag]

The following words are not in the Bible:

car
airplane
computer
artificial intelligence
rocket
cell phone
space ship
jet
keyboard
printer
copier
camera
telescope
light bulb
kite
balloon
microwave
radio
television
glasses
gun
microscope
nuclear bomb
assembly line
cannon
steamship

Do I really have to explain this? Apparently I do, since you constantly are trying to make this stupid point, that because words are not found in the Bible, therefore they cannot be true or valid. Anyone with half a brain knows better. Maybe that's why you don't.

It seems it would have been clearly stated in the Bible and in the earliest Christian creeds if the doctrine of the Trinity was genuine and central to Christian belief and especially if belief in it was necessary for salvation as many Trinitarians teach. God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Peterlag]

 

[dwight92070]

View attachment 2289

This is too easy. Because Jesus and the Father are both God.

Next fallacy.

 

[dwight92070]

It seems it would have been clearly stated in the Bible and in the earliest Christian creeds if the doctrine of the Trinity was genuine and central to Christian belief and especially if belief in it was necessary for salvation as many Trinitarians teach. God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.

It was clear enough for me to understand it and so it is for millions of others. The only ones who don't get it are indoctrinated in their twisted "understanding" of Scripture and their conscience is seared with lies. This is the spirit of antiChrist.

 

[Peterlag]

It was clear enough for me to understand it and so it is for millions of others. The only ones who don't get it are indoctrinated in their twisted "understanding" of Scripture and their conscience is seared with lies. This is the spirit of antiChrist.

The Trinity does not come from Scripture. It comes from the doctrine of devils that the churches teach (and in most cases it's the first thing they teach) and then they begin to look for Scripture that supports such a concept. They do this by taking the verses out of context, or not understanding how the words were used in the culture they were written in, or from a bad translation.

There's reasons why the Bible does not teach the Trinity in one whole paragraph in a few different places or a whole chapter or two on it. There's reasons why there's no teaching on why God would come to the earth as a man. There's reasons why there was never a debate about the Trinity in Scripture like we see with justification by works or who should be circumcised. Such an important subject matter like the Trinity and the Bible is silent on all of it.

And there's the spinning and twisting from the trinitarians who can't come up with one verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. Trinitarians who can't come up with one verse that says why God would come to the earth as a man. Trinitarians who have to make up their own words that are not in the Bible. Words like Trinity, Deity, and Incarnated.

If any of this nonsense was true and since it's so important and a huge subject to Christianity and is necessary for salvation like many teach. Then it would have been taught by someone somewhere. And it is not.