Thomas... My Lord and my God

[mikesw]

You and Fred both stepped in it. Do you also deny that Jesus took John's baptism of repentence?

Indeed he did a baptism of repentance. This was not that he needed repentance but that he had to follow the acts of repentance required on the Jews of that day. Like I have observed, you have a hyperliteralist interpretation that misses nuance. Please accept what is being shared with you to accept the proper doctrines we share.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You should fix yourself before giving unsolicited advice to others.

I'm not the one with a belief problem. You need some help.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Indeed he did a baptism of repentance. This was not that he needed repentance but that he had to follow the acts of repentance required on the Jews of that day. Like I have observed, you have a hyperliteralist interpretation that misses nuance. Please accept what is being shared with you to accept the proper doctrines we share.

John the Baptist was never baptized in repentance. Maybe he can deal with John.

 

[synergy]

Nope. God was with Jesus, God was not Jesus. Jesus' anointing and empowerment began at his water baptism. God is entirely external to Jesus.

The Father is external to the Word (Jesus) but the Word (Jesus) was God according to John 1:1. You continue to deny John 1:1.

So a question for you is, can God be with Jesus and others without them being God?

In the case of Jesus, he is already God (John 1:1).

In the case of believers, God the Holy Spirit indwells believers who are not God.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

An excellent Trinitarian verse that exemplifies how Jesus, although God, humbled himself to be our Exemplar in Baptism and in the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Runningman]

The Father is external to the Word (Jesus) but the Word (Jesus) was God according to John 1:1. You continue to deny John 1:1.

In the case of Jesus, he is already God (John 1:1).

In the case of believers, God the Holy Spirit indwells believers who are not God.

An excellent Trinitarian verse that exemplifies how Jesus, although God, humbled himself to be our Exemplar in Baptism and in the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

Look at it this way, they never referred to a trinity any time they mentioned God in the Bible. You seem to be catching on to that.

 

[Runningman]

I'm not the one with a belief problem. You need some help.

It's you who has the problem with recognizing that only the Father is God. You've seen the Scripture. You just create fancy arguments because you think it somehow nulls and voids Jesus' and his apostles' words.

 

[Runningman]

Indeed he did a baptism of repentance. This was not that he needed repentance but that he had to follow the acts of repentance required on the Jews of that day. Like I have observed, you have a hyperliteralist interpretation that misses nuance. Please accept what is being shared with you to accept the proper doctrines we share.

Reptenence is often associated with a changing of one's mind about sin, but not exlcusively. It really just means to change one's mind about anything. Scripture states God can repent (change His mind) and Jesus took the water baptism of repentence as well. Jesus changed his mind about living the life he wanted to live as a builder with Joseph to serve God in God's ministry instead. Unless, of course, you think Jesus only did a fake water baptism. It would seem that's the route you must chose.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's you who has the problem with recognizing that only the Father is God. You've seen the Scripture. You just create fancy arguments because you think it somehow nulls and voids Jesus' and his apostles' words.

I knew the Scriptures long before I ever meet you. I know them better than you do. "Fancy arguments" is your deflection. If you can't deal with the truth, you can't deal with the truth.

Do you know the Father without Jesus Christ? Care to answer this simple question?

I don't expect you to. Surprise me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Reptenence is often associated with a changing of one's mind about sin, but not exlcusively. It really just means to change one's mind about anything. Scripture states God can repent (change His mind) and Jesus took the water baptism of repentence as well. Jesus changed his mind about living the life he wanted to live as a builder with Joseph to serve God in God's ministry instead. Unless, of course, you think Jesus only did a fake water baptism. It would seem that's the route you must chose.

Yeah. All you see is a man. Did John the Baptist get baptized to repentance?

Is the man Jesus Christ better than you?

BTW, how do you know what to change your mind to? It is cheap to talk about a "change your mind" when you have no idea what that change must be.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Father is external to the Word (Jesus) but the Word (Jesus) was God according to John 1:1. You continue to deny John 1:1.

In the case of Jesus, he is already God (John 1:1).

In the case of believers, God the Holy Spirit indwells believers who are not God.

An excellent Trinitarian verse that exemplifies how Jesus, although God, humbled himself to be our Exemplar in Baptism and in the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

Only One that was baptized unto to John's baptism was the object of God The Father's praise....

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

I bet @Runningman didn't hear those words......

 

[Runningman]

Yeah. All you see is a man. Did John the Baptist get baptized to repentance?

Is the man Jesus Christ better than you?

BTW, how do you know what to change your mind to? It is cheap to talk about a "change your mind" when you have no idea what that change must be.

John saw a man too. Why do you see something that John didn't see?

John 1
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’

 

[Runningman]

I knew the Scriptures long before I ever meet you. I know them better than you do. "Fancy arguments" is your deflection. If you can't deal with the truth, you can't deal with the truth.

Do you know the Father without Jesus Christ? Care to answer this simple question?

I don't expect you to. Surprise me.

Look at your comment history. You often accuse people of having pride, but you are full of it. It's actually worse that you claim to have the truth and believe you know the Bible better than me when you can't even agree that the Father is the only true God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

John saw a man too. Why do you see something that John didn't see?

John 1
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’

Again, we are back to you demanding that I answer questions while not answering mine. Remember what happened last time?

Did you notice the last part of that verse....

"He was before me"? Remember "before Abraham"?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Look at your comment history. You often accuse people of having pride, but you are full of it. It's actually worse that you claim to have the truth believe you know the Bible better than me when you can't even agree that the Father is the only true God.

I have more experience with the Scriptures than you do. I have more than most people do. I prove it with what I say. If you think that is pride, then you're mistaken. I don't want honor from you in this. Not at all.

I wish you would actually engage at a meaningful level. This isn't difficult for me at all. Surprise me. I want you to surprise me.

 

[Runningman]

Again, we are back to you demanding that I answer questions while not answering mine. Remember what happened last time?

Did you notice the last part of that verse....

"He was before me"? Remember "before Abraham"?

I think you are forgetting who has the problem here and who needs to get on track. I can help you get on track if you will only let down your pride.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think you are forgetting who has the problem here and who needs to get on track. I can help you get on track if you will only let down your pride.

Okay. I humbly ask you to answer my questions. Would you "pretty pretty please" answer my question?

Did you notice the last part of that verse....

"He was before me"? Remember "before Abraham"?

Did John receive the baptism of repentance?

Did you literally hear the voice of God when you were baptized to repentance?

Has God the Father, audibly referenced you as His "beloved son"?

 

[Runningman]

I have more experience with the Scriptures than you do. I have more than most people do. I prove it with what I say. If you think that is pride, then you're mistaken. I don't want honor from you in this. Not at all.

I wish you would actually engage at a meaningful level. This isn't difficult for me at all. Surprise me. I want you to surprise me.

Reads like you believe everyone else has pride except you. No surprise you afford yourself a generous serving of grace while not affording it to others.

As for your experience, you are clearly experienced in trinitarian apologetics. You aren't excperienced in believing what the Bible actually says. For example, you went on a long tirade about John 8:58 and you hunkered down on that one verse and ignored the rest of the Bible showing that Jesus didn't exist before Abraham nor is the I Am. You got trinitarian tunnel vision.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Reads like you believe everyone else has pride except you. No surprise you afford yourself a generous serving of grace while not affording it to others.

As for your experience, you are clearly experienced in trinitarian apologetics. You aren't excperienced in believing what the Bible actually says. For example, you went on a long tirade about John 8:58 and you hunkered down on that one verse and ignored the rest of the Bible showing that Jesus didn't exist before Abraham nor is the I Am. You got trinitarian tunnel vision.

I stayed at John 5:58 because you refused to acknowledge that Jesus was referencing His age being beyond the scope of those surrounding Him. He was their elder. A position of authority among the Jews.

All you had to do was to acknowledge this and we could move on. That is exactly what is the sum of what John 5:57-58 says.

If you will rightfully acknowledge this, THEN you can move on to what it means in the context of other revelation.

If you want to be rigid in application..... then we'll be rigid in application.

 

[Runningman]

Okay. I humbly ask you to answer my questions. Would you "pretty pretty please" answer my question?

Did you notice the last part of that verse....

"He was before me"? Remember "before Abraham"?

Did John receive the baptism of repentance?

Did you literally hear the voice of God when you were baptized to repentance?

Has God the Father, audibly referenced you as His "beloved son"?

What difference doesn't make if my answer is yes or no? I assume it's going to be straight skepticism either way. Stick with the Scripture.

 

[Runningman]

I stayed at John 5:58 because you refused to acknowledge that Jesus was referencing His age being beyond the scope of those surrounding Him. He was their elder. A position of authority among the Jews.

All you had to do was to acknowledge this and we could move on. That is exactly what is the sum of what John 5:57-58 says.

If you will rightfully acknowledge this, THEN you can move on to what it means in the context of other revelation.

If you want to be rigid in application..... then we'll be rigid in application.

John 8:58 is about Jesus being in prophecy before Abraham. Not literally existing before Abraham, not a claim to being God, etc. You're reading theology into it. Based on the internal evidence of the Bible, Jesus is not the I AM.