The Water Baptism of Cornelius

[Seabass]

There are many attempts made to get around the necessity of water baptism in the salvation of man. One such attempt I will deal here briefly is with Cornelius. The claim is made that since the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius, that is supposed proof he was already saved BEFORE he was water baptized.

The assumption made is that those who are already saved can be the only ones to have the Holy Spirit come upon them.

Yet this assumption is easily refuted for we find in the Bible examples of those not saved yet filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, King Saul being one.

"For instance, in the book of 1 Samuel, we learn about the first king of Israel—King Saul. When he was chosen, Saul was the ideal candidate to be king. And yet because of a series of poor decisions that resulted in disobedience to God’s commands, he was rejected by God. In 1 Samual 16:14, the text explains that “the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul.” Due to Saul’s hardened, disobedient heart, he began to chase David in an attempt to kill him.

Saul’s debased mind even led him to bring about the death of an entire city of the Lord’s priests. On one occasion, as he was chasing David, he heard that David was with Samuel in the city of Ramah. Saul sent messengers to capture David, but when they arrived, “the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they prophesied. And when Saul was told, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. Then Saul sent messengers a third time, and they prophesied also” (1 Samuel 19:20-21). Notice that the fact that the Holy Spirit came upon the messengers was not an indication of their being saved, but instead was a miraculous intervention on God’s behalf to save David.

Finally, Saul himself went to Ramah in an attempt to capture and kill David. When he got there, “the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on and prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah” (1 Samuel 19:22-24). The miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit were a sign from God, but not one meant to indicate Saul’s salvation. Instead, it was a sign to show that God was with Samuel and was protecting David."

Source Publisher: Apologetics Press
Author: Kyle Butt

If Cornelius Had the Holy Spirit, Doesn’t That Mean He Was Saved? - Apologetics Press

Acts 10 contains the exciting story of Peter preaching the first Gospel sermon to the Gentiles. Until this time, many of the Jewish converts believed that the Gospel was for the Jews, and they thought that those who obeyed the Gospel were also supposed to keep the Law of Moses. That was not...

apologeticspress.org

(Lastly a sidenote: 1 Sam 16:14 says the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul. If the Spirit falling upon Cornelius is 'proof' he was saved, then the Spirit departing from one must prove that salvation can also be lost. Correct?)

 

[Rockerduck]

There are many attempts made to get around the necessity of water baptism in the salvation of man. One such attempt I will deal here briefly is with Cornelius. The claim is made that since the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius, that is supposed proof he was already saved BEFORE he was water baptized.

The assumption made is that those who are already saved can be the only ones to have the Holy Spirit come upon them.

Yet this assumption is easily refuted for we find in the Bible examples of those not saved yet filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, King Saul being one.

"For instance, in the book of 1 Samuel, we learn about the first king of Israel—King Saul. When he was chosen, Saul was the ideal candidate to be king. And yet because of a series of poor decisions that resulted in disobedience to God’s commands, he was rejected by God. In 1 Samual 16:14, the text explains that “the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul.” Due to Saul’s hardened, disobedient heart, he began to chase David in an attempt to kill him.

Saul’s debased mind even led him to bring about the death of an entire city of the Lord’s priests. On one occasion, as he was chasing David, he heard that David was with Samuel in the city of Ramah. Saul sent messengers to capture David, but when they arrived, “the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul, and they prophesied. And when Saul was told, he sent other messengers, and they prophesied likewise. Then Saul sent messengers a third time, and they prophesied also” (1 Samuel 19:20-21). Notice that the fact that the Holy Spirit came upon the messengers was not an indication of their being saved, but instead was a miraculous intervention on God’s behalf to save David.

Finally, Saul himself went to Ramah in an attempt to capture and kill David. When he got there, “the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on and prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah” (1 Samuel 19:22-24). The miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit were a sign from God, but not one meant to indicate Saul’s salvation. Instead, it was a sign to show that God was with Samuel and was protecting David."

Source Publisher: Apologetics Press
Author: Kyle Butt

If Cornelius Had the Holy Spirit, Doesn’t That Mean He Was Saved? - Apologetics Press

Acts 10 contains the exciting story of Peter preaching the first Gospel sermon to the Gentiles. Until this time, many of the Jewish converts believed that the Gospel was for the Jews, and they thought that those who obeyed the Gospel were also supposed to keep the Law of Moses. That was not...

apologeticspress.org

(Lastly a sidenote: 1 Sam 16:14 says the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul. If the Spirit falling upon Cornelius is 'proof' he was saved, then the Spirit departing from one must prove that salvation can also be lost. Correct?)

Don't link the OT with the NT. One being the deceased Mosiac Covenant and the other the New Covenant in Christ. The Holy Spirit in Christ is a seal of promise, and your sins are forgiven, by Grace. Jesus is our intercessor. Baptism is not the deciding factor of salvation. You would have to explain those who die in fires, floods, war, who accept Christ and die before baptism can be accomplished. If you are on a plane and its going down, you bet there are those accepting Christ before it hits.

 

[Diserner]

Any EXTERNAL demand misses the HEART of Scripture.

And both OT and NT testify to that fact!

He never desired sacrifices, even though he commanded them!

Why?

People missed the heart and made it all about rules.

And many still do!

 

[Seabass]

Don't link the OT with the NT. One being the deceased Mosiac Covenant and the other the New Covenant in Christ. The Holy Spirit in Christ is a seal of promise, and your sins are forgiven, by Grace. Jesus is our intercessor. Baptism is not the deciding factor of salvation. You would have to explain those who die in fires, floods, war, who accept Christ and die before baptism can be accomplished. If you are on a plane and its going down, you bet there are those accepting Christ before it hits.

If the HS coming upon Cornelius and him speaking in tongues is proof of his salvation then the Spirit coming upon Saul and his prophesying would be equal proof. There would be no distintion at all between the two events.

Those who die in fires, floods, wars unbaptized would be lost just as those who die faithless in fires, floods, wars.

 

[Rockerduck]

If the HS coming upon Cornelius and him speaking in tongues is proof of his salvation then the Spirit coming upon Saul and his prophesying would be equal proof. There would be no distintion at all between the two events.

Those who die in fires, floods, wars unbaptized would be lost just as those who die faithless in fires, floods, wars.

The Holy Spirit in the OT was for special assignments. Moses had it, David had it, the Judges had it. Prophets had it. God gave and removed as needed. In the New Testament, all of Sauls men could have the accepted Christ and have the Holy Spirit. Two different Covenants, the Mosaic one is a sacrificial system for atonement for sins administered by a priest. Jesus is our sacrifice once and for all and He is our High Priest.

 

[Seabass]

The Holy Spirit in the OT was for special assignments. Moses had it, David had it, the Judges had it. Prophets had it. God gave and removed as needed. In the New Testament, all of Sauls men could have the accepted Christ and have the Holy Spirit. Two different Covenants, the Mosaic one is a sacrificial system for atonement for sins administered by a priest. Jesus is our sacrifice once and for all and He is our High Priest.

God sending the HS coming upon Cornelius was no proof of his salvation than the Spirit coming upon Saul and his men. Yet the purpose or "assignment" of the HS was different; the Spirit falling upon Saul and his men was to protect David from their intent to kill him and the Spirit falling upon Cornelius was to prove to the Jew salvation was not just for the Jew but to also go to the Gentile. God succeeded with His purpose in both cases. (1 Sam 20:1; Acts 11:18). Yet in neither context from 1 Sam 19 or Acts 10-11 does it says the Spirit falling upon one is proof of salvation...that idea is being added to the text.

 

[Rockerduck]

God sending the HS coming upon Cornelius was no proof of his salvation than the Spirit coming upon Saul and his men. Yet the purpose or "assignment" of the HS was different; the Spirit falling upon Saul and his men was to protect David from their intent to kill him and the Spirit falling upon Cornelius was to prove to the Jew salvation was not just for the Jew but to also go to the Gentile. God succeeded with His purpose in both cases. (1 Sam 20:1; Acts 11:18). Yet in neither context from 1 Sam 19 or Acts 10-11 does it says the Spirit falling upon one is proof of salvation...that idea is being added to the text.

Stay stuck in the OT then. I'll stay with Christ in the New Testament.

 

[Seabass]

Stay stuck in the OT then. I'll stay with Christ in the New Testament.

This has nothing with OT vs NT but the issue is does the HS falling upon one prove he is saved and both the OT and NT both give proof one is not necessarity saved simply because the HS falls upon a person.

If you care to look, in the link I provided in the OP has informtion to 2 NT cases of one having powers of the Spirit but not saved in the case of Caiaphas and 1 Cor 12-14.

 

[Fred]

Yet this assumption is easily refuted for we find in the Bible examples of those not saved yet filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, King Saul being one.

Yet this argument is easily refuted in that what is described above took place during a different covenant.

In the New Covenant era anyone who possess the Holy Spirit is saved (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13.

This was the case of Corenlius and the other Gentiles with him before they were water baptized.

 

[Fred]

If you care to look, in the link I provided in the OP has informtion to 2 NT cases of one having powers of the Spirit but not saved in the case of Caiaphas and 1 Cor 12-14.

The case of Caiphas (John 11:49-52) was before the New Covenant Church began (cf. Acts 2:4)

1 Corinthians 12-14 does not teach what you assert. Simply citing it is not proof.

 

[Seabass]

Yet this argument is easily refuted in that what is described above took place during a different covenant.

In the New Covenant era anyone who possess the Holy Spirit is saved (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13.

This was the case of Corenlius and the other Gentiles with him before they were water baptized.

Examples have already been given of the HS coming upon unsaved individuals, hence there is no proof the HS cannot fall upon unsaved people. To state othewise is pure assumption having no BIblical basis. What covenant was in place has nothing to do with the fact the Spirit came upon an unsaved person in the NT as it did in the OT.

 

[Seabass]

The case of Caiphas (John 11:49-52) was before the New Covenant Church began (cf. Acts 2:4)

1 Corinthians 12-14 does not teach what you assert. Simply citing it is not proof.

Again, it's not OT versus NT. We have examples in the Bible of the SPirit coming upon unsaved people in both the OT and NT. In 1 Cor 12-14 speaks of Christians at Corinth who had the Spirit come upon them thereby performing signs but if they performed those signs but did not have love they would be lost. Hence having the power of the HS spoke nothing to the person's salvation.....

"Paul explains that miraculous powers given by the Holy Spirit do not prove salvation. In fact, if those powers are being used by a person who does not have love in his or her heart, then that person is lost. Paul said: “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:1-2). Notice that Paul’s statement shows that an amazing display of the miraculous powers of the Holy Spirit would indicate nothing about a person’s salvation, since such a display could be done without love."

Source Publisher: Apologetics Press
Author: Kyle Butt

If Cornelius Had the Holy Spirit, Doesn’t That Mean He Was Saved? - Apologetics Press

Acts 10 contains the exciting story of Peter preaching the first Gospel sermon to the Gentiles. Until this time, many of the Jewish converts believed that the Gospel was for the Jews, and they thought that those who obeyed the Gospel were also supposed to keep the Law of Moses. That was not...

apologeticspress.org

 

[Fred]

Examples have already been given of the HS coming upon unsaved individuals,

One day you can be part of the New Covenant too.

 

[Fred]

Again, it's not OT versus NT.

Yes, it is.

 

[Fred]

In 1 Cor 12-14 speaks of Christians at Corinth who had the Spirit come upon them thereby performing signs but if they performed those signs but did not have love they would be lost.

No verse is cited to back up your outlandish claim.

 

[Seabass]

One day you can be part of the New Covenant too.

Again, God using the HS to accomplish His purposes has nothing to do with OT or NT.

 

[Seabass]

No verse is cited to back up your outlandish claim.

1 Cor in chapters 12-14, post #12.


Would Cornelius been lost had God not aptized Him with the HS??

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
● Rev 22:17 . . And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth
say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the
water of life freely.

The water of life isn't ritual water, rather, it's a supernatural kind of water
proceeding from the throne of God (Rev 22:1) and it's a beverage, viz: living water
is for drinking rather than for bathing. Plus; it's a freebee available on request.

Again:

● John 7:37-38 . . Jesus stood and cried, saying: If any man thirst, let him come
unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his
belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jesus then went on to reveal how the living water is dispensed.

● John 7:38-39 . . By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him
were later to receive.

Again:

● John 4:10-14 . . If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water . . .
whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him
will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

Living water therein is portrayed as a freebee, available on request. And also
portrayed as a beverage for drinking rather a medium for bathing.

Just think how tragic it would be if folks infatuated with ritual water ended up on
the wrong side of things because they failed to RSVP Jesus about obtaining living
water.

● John 3:5 . . Jesus answered: I tell you the truth; no one can enter the kingdom of
God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
_

 

[Fred]

Again, God using the HS to accomplish His purposes has nothing to do with OT or NT.

It has everything to do with both.

 

[Fred]

Would Cornelius been lost had God not aptized Him with the HS??

Yes.

When Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit he was placed into the NT Church (Acts 11:16).