The Water Baptism of Cornelius

"Paul explains that miraculous powers given by the Holy Spirit do not prove salvation. In fact, if those powers are being used by a person who does not have love in his or her heart, then that person is lost. Paul said: “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:1-2). Notice that Paul’s statement shows that an amazing display of the miraculous powers of the Holy Spirit would indicate nothing about a person’s salvation, since such a display could be done without love."

The boldface above is mine.


The above is easily proven to be wrong in that when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon these Gentiles (cf. Acts 10:45) is when the love of God was poured into their hearts demonstrating they were Christians (Romans 5:5).

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Notice further that according to Acts 15:8, the Holy Spirit was given (didōmi) to these Gentiles before their water baptism (cf. Acts 10:48) which even further proves they were saved before their water baptism.
 
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Rev 22:17 . . And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth
say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the
water of life freely.

The water of life isn't ritual water, rather, it's a supernatural kind of water
proceeding from the throne of God (Rev 22:1) and it's a beverage, viz: living water
is for drinking rather than for bathing. Plus; it's a freebee available on request.

Again:

John 7:37-38 . . Jesus stood and cried, saying: If any man thirst, let him come
unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his
belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jesus then went on to reveal how the living water is dispensed.

John 7:38-39 . . By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him
were later to receive.

Again:

John 4:10-14 . . If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water . . .
whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him
will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

Living water therein is portrayed as a freebee, available on request. And also
portrayed as a beverage for drinking rather a medium for bathing.

Just think how tragic it would be if folks infatuated with ritual water ended up on
the wrong side of things because they failed to RSVP Jesus about obtaining living
water.

John 3:5 . . Jesus answered: I tell you the truth; no one can enter the kingdom of
God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
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The Eunuch was baptized in literal water, for they Phillip and the eunuch, both went down into the water for in water baptism there is a literal immersion from which one is resurrected, raised up from (Rom 6:3-5).

Jn 3:5 "water" refers to literal water as "Spirit" refers to literal Spirit.

Jn 3 -------- born of water and of the Spirit >>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Matt 7------ doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>> enter the lingdom

Since there is but just one way to be save/enter the kingdom, there is definite connection between being born of water and doing the will of God. God has commanded all men to be water baptized and those who so such are doing the wll of the Father/born again. Therefore being born again is not some mysterious, supernatural, passive , subjective, emotional, waterless experience but is obediently submitting to the Father's will in being baptized.

1 Pet 3:21 saved by water, Peter refers to literal water.

OT type: saved by water (flood)
NT antitype: saved by water (baptism)

The NT antiype is a mirror reflection of the OT type. The world was flooded by literal water not figurative flooded by the Spirit. Hence Peter refers to literal water in baptism as the world was flooded with literal water.
 
Jn 3:5 "water" refers to literal water as "Spirit" refers to literal Spirit.

"Water" in John 3:5 refers to the Holy Spirit.

Nicodemus, being a Pharisee would have easily made this connection from the Old Testament.
Ezekiel 36:25-27
(25) Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
(26) Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new Spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
(27) I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

In fact, John later equates "water" with the Holy Spirit elsewhere within the same Gospel.
John 7:37-39
(37) Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
(38) He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
(39) But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The same Greek word for "receive" used in John 7:39 is found in Acts 10:47 in relation to the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit - and that before their water baptism.
 
Yes.

When Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit he was placed into the NT Church (Acts 11:16).
Have you been baptized with the HS and spoke in tongues? I do not know your religious background but I personally know Baptists who deny the necessity of water baptism. Yet none of them have ever made the claim they were baptized with the HS and spoke in tongues. This mean all Baptists are lost?

The eunuch was not baptized with the HS nor spoke in tongues, so was he lost? The only 2 times in the NT the Lord baptized men with the HS and they spoke in tongues and that is the Apostles in Acts 2 and Cornelius Acts 10. So everyone else is lost for not being baptized with the HS?

Acts 15:11 Peter said that Jew and Gentile are saved in a "like manner" way. That like manner way was the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord for emission of sins, (Acts 2:38 cf Acts 10:47-48). The Jews in Acts 2 were not baptized with the HS so they would be lost according to you. The Gentiles were baptized with the HS therefore baptism with the HS cannot be that like manner way Jew and Gentile are saved. And all who ever lived from Acts 2 till today are saved in that one like manner way so all, according to you, that have not been baptized with the HS and spoke in tongues are all lost.

If I am not baptized with the HS then according to you I would be lost. I would be lost not due to my own choice or culpability but lost because God failed or refused to baptize me with the HS then you have God culpable for the lost when He has no such culpability.
 
Have you been baptized with the HS

Yes - all who are Christians have been baptized with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13). This event places them into the NT Church.



and spoke in tongues?

No, not all do (1 Corinthians 12:30) - but since these Gentiles did proves they were in the Church before their water baptism (Acts 10:46).

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
 
"Water" in John 3:5 refers to the Holy Spirit.

Nicodemus, being a Pharisee would have easily made this connection from the Old Testament.
Ezekiel 36:25-27
(25) Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
(26) Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new Spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
(27) I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

In fact, John later equates "water" with the Holy Spirit elsewhere within the same Gospel.
John 7:37-39
(37) Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
(38) He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
(39) But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The same Greek word for "receive" used in John 7:39 is found in Acts 10:47 in relation to the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit - and that before their water baptism.
It would be redundant for Jesus to say "born of the Spirit and of the Spirit", a faulty tautology.

The Bible is its own best commentator:
Jn 3 -----------SPirit ++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 12-----SPirit ++++++++++ baptized >>>>>> in the body

Clearly water is a reference to water baptism as it was understood this way for centuries until Calvin tried to heretically change it. A few verse later in Jn 3 ir makes it clear what water refers to: "And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized." Water in all the context of Jn 3 refers to literal water. It is exegetical error to run to another text where water is being used figuratively in that context then apply that figurative meaning where you so choose.
 
It would be redundant for Jesus to say "born of the Spirit and of the Spirit", a faulty tautology.

The Bible is its own best commentator:
Jn 3 -----------SPirit ++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 12-----SPirit ++++++++++ baptized >>>>>> in the body

The Greek word 'kai' can be used epexegetically.

Murray Harris: The non-repetition of ἐκ before πνεύματος suggests that "water" and "Spirit" form a single conceptual unit, "water-and-Spirit"; the two are aspects of a single comprehensive idea - a rebirth stemming from (ἐξ) the cleansing and renewing (cf. ὕδωρ) role of the Spirit (cf. Ezek 36:25-27). There may be an allusion but not a reference to Christian baptism (John: Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament, page 73).
 
Yes - all who are Christians have been baptized with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13). This event places them into the NT Church.





No, not all do (1 Corinthians 12:30) - but since these Gentiles did proves they were in the Church before their water baptism (Acts 10:46).

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
If you did not speak in tongues then you were not baptized with the HS as the Gentiles.

And those not baptized with the HS are all lost due to a failure on God's part for not baptizing them with the HS. It's God's desire that all men be saved, then why does God not baptize all men with the HS so all can be saved yet God lets most be lost in failing, refusing to baptize them with the HS.
 
If you did not speak in tongues then you were not baptized with the HS as the Gentiles.

Incorrect, because not all do (1 Corinthians 12:30).

These Gentiles received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:47) which is the same thing as them being baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16).
When Paul wrote to the Galatians and told them that they received the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:2) which means the same thing as being baptized with the Holy Spirit (see above) he didn't think all of them spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30).

And those not baptized with the HS are all lost due to a failure on God's part for not baptizing them with the HS.

God does not fail. All those who are saved have been baptized with the Holy Spirit.
 
The Greek word 'kai' can be used epexegetically.

Murray Harris: The non-repetition of ἐκ before πνεύματος suggests that "water" and "Spirit" form a single conceptual unit, "water-and-Spirit"; the two are aspects of a single comprehensive idea - a rebirth stemming from (ἐξ) the cleansing and renewing (cf. ὕδωρ) role of the Spirit (cf. Ezek 36:25-27). There may be an allusion but not a reference to Christian baptism (John: Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament, page 73).
Mr Harris is wrong according to the immediate context of Jn 3 in that water refers to literal water and remote born again contexts as 1 Cor 12:13.

If water cannot mean literal water in Jn 3 them consistency means spirit cannot mean literal spirit. Your bias cannot allow water mean literal water but have no probelem with spirit meaning literal spirit. Clearly inconsistency in interpretation due to bias not context.
 
Mr Harris is wrong according to the immediate context of Jn 3 in that water refers to literal water and remote born again contexts as 1 Cor 12:13.

You are wrong because 1 Corinthians 12:13 refers to being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

If water cannot mean literal water in Jn 3 them consistency means spirit cannot mean literal spirit.

Water = Spirit

Your bias cannot allow water mean literal water

Your bias forces you to deny the OT connection that Jesus spoke of and one in which Nicodemus (being a Pharisee) would have known about.
Christian baptism wasn't even instituted yet, but Christ expected Nicodemus to know what He was talking about (John 3:10).
 
If water cannot mean literal water in Jn 3 them consistency means spirit cannot mean literal spirit. Your bias cannot allow water mean literal water but have no probelem with spirit meaning literal spirit. Clearly inconsistency in interpretation due to bias not context.

Literal water is involved with physical birth.

Seems like the most straightforward way to read it.
 
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John 3:5-6 . . Jesus answered: I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of
God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the
Spirit gives birth to spirit.

One day I asked an experienced Jehovah's Witness if he was born of the Spirit. He
answered no, and added that he did not expect to undergo a Spirit birth in either
this life or the next because his hope is on Earth rather than in Heaven.

The JW was somehow unaware that Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus wasn't about
things in Heaven, rather, things on Earth.

John 3:12 . . . If I have told you earthly things and yet you do not believe, how
will you believe if I tell you Heavenly things?

In other words: the kingdom of God, and the Spirit-birth requirement, pertain to
Messiah's theocratic world down here on the ground rather than the supreme
being's celestial world up in the sky.

It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank and file missionaries
go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will never be allowed to
enter-- not because they didn't work hard enough to deserve it, but simply because
they were led to believe themselves exempt from the Spirit-birth requirement. And
along with that they'll miss out on the living water spoken of by John 4:10-14 and
Rev 22:17 because that's included in the procedure. (John 7:37-39)
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Gen 17:3b-4 . . and God spoke to him further: As for Me, this is My covenant with
you: You shall be the father of a multitude of nations.

That announcement regards nations rather than individuals. Abram is well known as
the father of the Jews, but he is also father of more than just them. The majority of
Abram's progeny is Gentile and a very large number of those are Arabs.

Besides Ishmael and Isaac, Abraham also engendered Zimran, Jokshan, Medan,
Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Over the years millions of people have descended from
those eight men who are all Abram's blood kin; both Jew and Gentile.

Gen 17:5 . . And you shall no longer be called Abram, but your name shall be
Abraham, for I make you the father of a multitude of nations.

Abraham's original name was 'Abram (ab-rawm') which means: high, or exalted
father. In other words: a daddy; as the respectable head of a single family unit.
Abram's new name 'Abraham (ab-raw-hawm') means: father of a multitude of
family units. In other words: not just the paterfamilias of a single family unit; but
the rootstock of entire communities.

** The title "father" isn't limited to parents; it also applies to strong spiritual
personages. (e.g. 2Kgs 2:12 & Isa 9:6)

Gen 17:6 . . I will make you exceedingly fertile, and make nations of you; and
kings shall come forth from you.

The king who matters most is Messiah.

"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."
(Matt 1:1)

Gen 17:7a . . I will maintain My covenant between me and you, and your
offspring to come,

The Hebew word for "maintain" basically means: to rise (in various applications,
literal, figurative, intensive and causative). The very first instance of that word is
Gen 4:8.

"Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him."

That's kind of negative. Here's a passage that really says what God meant.

"Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters. They came to draw water, and filled
the troughs to water their father's flock; but shepherds came and drove them off.
Moses rose to their defense, and he watered their flock. When they returned to
their father Reuel, he said: How is it that you have come back so soon today? They
answered: An Egyptian protected us from the shepherds; he even drew water for
us and watered the flock." (Ex 2:16-19)

The "offspring to come" was Isaac's and Jacob's rather than every last one of
Abraham's posterity.

Gen 17:7b . . as an everlasting covenant throughout the ages,

Abraham's covenant is permanent; has never been annulled, deleted, made
obsolete, abrogated, set aside, given to another people, nor replaced by another
covenant.

God promised Abraham He would guard the safety of this particular covenant
Himself personally. The covenant God made with Moses' people as per Deut 29:9
15 neither supersedes, amends, nor replaces the covenant God made with Abraham
in this chapter (Gal 3:17). Attempts been made to package all the covenants into a
single security like a Wall Street derivative similar to a collateralized debt obligation
(CDO). But that just creates a bubble and is really asking for trouble.

Gen 17:7c . . to be a deity to you and to your offspring to come.

This part of the covenant is somewhat conditional. It will only include those among
male Hebrews that undergo the circumcision coming up in the next few passages.
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You are wrong because 1 Corinthians 12:13 refers to being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
This has been dealt with in another thread I started. You make the CLAIM it refers to baptism with the HS but never provide proof
Water = Spirit
This is you adding your religious bias to the text. You have no problem with Spirit = Spirit but your bias cannot have water = water so you must add your bias to the text. Likewise in Acts 10 you want the baptism with the HS as the means of Corenelius' salvation but not the accompanying tongues.
Your bias forces you to deny the OT connection that Jesus spoke of and one in which Nicodemus (being a Pharisee) would have known about.
Christian baptism wasn't even instituted yet, but Christ expected Nicodemus to know what He was talking about (John 3:10).
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

Nicodemus should have understood the basic things Christ was talking about because they were foreshawdowed - prophesied about in the OT as in Eze 18:30-31; Eze 36:25 which are referencing this new birth;

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
.

Eze 18 and 36 are prophesies of this new birth the Messiah would bring when He came to earth for they did not have such things under that OT law as "clean from all your filthiness" nor "I will cleanse you" (forgiveness of sins, complete justification, Heb 10:1-4) nor did they have 'give you a new spirit' referring to regeneration. Hence Nicodemus (all Pharisees) should have had understanding of Christ words if they understood the OT law as they claimed to have understood. But we know from Rom 3 they did not have a correct understanding of the OT law. Hence not understanding Christ's words was their own fault.

Also note when Christ came with this new birth not ever Jew was universally, unconditionally given a new heart and spirit, In Acts 2 we have the first recorded gospel sermon where only those Jews who heard those saving gospel words and only those Jews that obeyed those words by being water baptized for the remission of sins received a new heart and spirit. Peter went on to tell the Jews in v40 to "save yourselves". "Save yourselves" is equvalent to "make yourselves" a new heart and spirit per Exe 18:30-31. They could not save themselves by themselves, they could not make themselves a new heart and spirit by themselves but by being obedient to the gospel given to them by God and obeying it by being water baptized for remission of sin then they would be born again. Their being born again involved them making themselves a new heart and spirit:

Jn 3 -------born of water and of the spirit >>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Mt 7--------do the will of the Fahter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom

Since there is one way to be saved/enter the kingdom. then salvatiom involves doing the will of God and there is the obvious connection between being born of water and spirit and DOING thew will of GOd. When one submits to water baptism as commanded by God (Acts 10:47-48) then God removes their sins and one is in that sense saving themselves, making themselves a new heart and spirit. Again this involves DOING the will of God and baptism with the HS has nothing with man doing the will of God.

David prophesied that God would give the hethren nation to Christ as a inheritence (Psa 2:8) Yet in Acts 10 we have the first Gentile converts and not all Gentiles were universally unconditionally given a new heart and spirit. Only those who heard those saving words from Peter (Acts 11:14) and obeyed them by being water baptized were given a new heart and spirit.

Baptism with the HS had no part in any of this at all, yet you are trying to add it to the context of Acts 10. Baptism with the HS has nothing to do with 'make yourselves" a new heart or spirit or "save yourselves" for this involves being obedient to God's command to be water baptized for remission of sins. Baptism with the HS is not doing the will of God per Mt 7:21. This is why there is NOTHING in the context of Acts 10 or 11 that makes baptism with the HS part of the personal salvation of Cornelius.



Again, the immediate context of Jn 3 tells us that water in Jn 3:5 refers to water baptism of v23 and water of v23 means literal water as it does in v5.
"And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized." It does NOT say theire was much SPIRIT there. Again, you import the content of a remote text into John 3 that have nothing to do with the literal water of Jn 3 to try and make water of Jn 3 figurative. You claims are exegetically flawed.

The Pharisees rejected John's baptism (Lk 7:30) and thier rejection of John's baptism was rejection of God. And since rejection of John's baptism is rejection of God then what can be said of rejection of Christ's water baptism? It's rejection of God. Their rejection of John's water baptism was rejection of God which led to their ultimate rejection by God (Rom 11). There are those today that reject "born of water" as those Pharisees in their rejection of John's water baptism.
 
Literal water is involved with physical birth.

Seems like the most straightforward way to read it.
Christ is not talking about the physical birth in Jn 3:5 so water would not refer to the physical birth. The new birth was something Nicodemushad NOT experienced but he had experienced the physical birth. Hence Jn 3:5 refers to something Nicodemus had NOT experienced.

Furthermore it would make Christ look silly to say "unless you are physically born (born of water) you cannot be born of spirit (born again). CHrist would obviously understand a full grown adult as Nicodemus has already been physically born.

If you ask me directions to WalMart it would be silly and ridiculous for me to say "you must first be physically born then you take Hwy 1 three miles east to Walmart."
 
If you ask me directions to WalMart it would be silly and ridiculous for me to say "you must first be physically born then you take Hwy 1 three miles east to Walmart."

I disagree with your logic here, because Nicodemus is the one who turned it physical again, by describing crawling back into the womb.

So Jesus acknowledged he did not mean two physical births by adding another birth after the physical one.

If this is not what Jesus meant, it becomes even more confusing for Nicodemus, not less.
 
The context of Acts 10 and 11 tell me exacatly what is invoilved in the salvation of Cornelius:

1) saved by words Acts 11:14
2) must work righteousness to be accepted by God Acts 10:35
3) obey the command to be water baptized Acts 10:47-48

There is NOTHING in the context of Acts 10 or 11 that baptism with the HS was a necessary part of Cornwlius salvation, that idea is added by men.

1) saved by words
Rom 1:16 the gospel (not baptism with the HS) is the power of God unto salvation. It was through Peter's preaching Cornelius received those saving words, not by being baptized with the HS. In Acts 8 the Spirit did not impart those saving words to the Eunuch Himself but sent for Phillip to teach him those saving words and water baptize him. Hence baptism with the HS had no role in the personal salvation of the eunuch nor Cornelius.

2) work righteousness to be accepted by God
All God's commands are righteousness (Psa 119:172) and those saving words of the gospel included God's command to be water baptized. Hence Cornelius obeyed God's righteousness by obediently submitting to water baptism then he would be accepted with God. Being baptized with the HS was not Cornelius working God's righteousness. Cornelius was never commanded to be baptized with the HS so it is not something he could obey, not how he could work God's righteousness.

3) commanded to be water baptized
The fact water baptism was commanded would make it essential to Cornelius salvation if for no other reason. Obeying this command was how he worked righteouness to be accepted by God. Disobedeince to God is working UNrighteousness and Cornelius would have remained lost in his sin by disobeying that command.....whosoever (includes Cornelius) in continuing to not do righteousness continues to not be of God. Hence it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for Cornlius to work righteous and be accepted by God by rejecting to do God's commands. And if the Jews "forbid" the water baptism (v47) to the Gentiles they would be fighting against God in salvation going to the Gentiles.
Therefore baptism with the HS had NOTHING to do with the perosnal salvation of Cornelius or the eunuch. Cornelius, as the eunuch, would be saved apart from being baptized with the HS when he heard those saving words, worked righteousness by obeying those saving words in submitting to water baptism. There are thise that try to make baptism with the HS and speaking in tongues necessary in the salvation of Cornelius and the eunuch when the contexts do not. The eunuch not being baptized with the HS and speaking in tongues does not prove he was left unsaved no more than Cornelius being baptized with the HS proves he was saved for baptism with the HS had nothing to do with their personal salvation.

Gomer once told Barney to go up an alley and holler fish. If one goes up an alley and hollers fish that does not prove he is saved or unsaved for it has NOTHING to do with that person's personal salvation. Likewise being baptized with the HS does not prove one is saved or unsaved for that baptism has NOTHING to do with the perosnal salvation of Cornelius or the eunuch. Therefore to claim Cornelius or the eunuch would be lost for not being baptized with the HS is ADDING ideas to the contexts simply to get around the necessity of water baptism that IS in the text.
 
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