The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[TomL]

No. A non-existent faith is made real by acting on the intellectual assent in the mind/heart of a person. There is no faith to begin with if there is no action.

That is completely unbiblical

Faith is trust. If trust does not exist, then there can be no actions to make trust real.

 

[dwight92070]

That is completely unbiblical

Faith is trust. If trust does not exist, then there can be no actions to make trust real.

"This is the work (action) of God, to believe on Him whom He has sent."

 

[TomL]

"This is the work (action) of God, to believe on Him whom He has sent."

John 6:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

 

[Seabass]

Um who said water baptism is a burial?

Where in the bible do read of a watery grave?

These are ideas you impose upon scripture.

There is absolutely nothing in the text which speaks of how he was water baptized or the point at which he was saved



Not only do you have no evidence for that

Paul describes the action of baptism as a burial that one is 'raised up from" in Rom 6;


Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


in Col 2:12;
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

So there is a burial and resurrection that takes place in water baptism hence one 'obeys the gospel of Christ' per 2 Thess 1:8 by DYING to sin, being BURIED in a watery grave to then be RESURRECTED from that watery grave to then walk in newness of life. Water baptism is a type, a pattern of the death burial and resurrection of Christ those Romans 'obeyed from the heart' (Rom 6:17-18). Water baptism has been commanded therefore it can be obeyed from the heart. No one was commanded to be baptized with the HS so it is not a baptism that can be obeyed nor has anyone today been promised to be baptized with the HS.

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the purpose of water baptism is for the remission of sins, Acts 2:38 so the purpose of this death burial and resurrection in water baptism is salvation. This is why in every conversion in Acts people were water baptized for salvation, not baptized with the HS to be saved. If the Jews in Acts 2 were not saved when they were water baptized in v38 per the great commission, can you pin point the verse as to when they were saved and prove why and how were they saved in that verse?

 

[TomL]

Paul describes the action of baptism as a burial that one is 'raised up from" in Rom 6;


Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Um you are reading your theology into the passage.

Baptism into death is not baptism into water.

And a submersion in water does not impart a new life

The spirit is required for that

in Col 2:12;
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Baptism into Christ that is union with Christ is union with him in his death


Spiritual resurrection requires the Spirit not water

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 But whoever drinks of this water which I will give to him will never be thirsty for eternity, but the water which I will give to him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yet He still demands action. He knew Abraham would sacrifice Isaac, but He made him do it anyway before he confirmed his covenant with him. He knew that Naaman would dip in Jordan, but he made him do it anyway before he cured him. He knew Israel would march around Jericho, but He made them march anyway before He knocked the walls over.

lol. No God did not make Abraham do anything. Come on man.

Can you not see that if you don't do what He commands you don't get what He offers?

It does not matter what I do. I will still fail to earn what he offers.

I am saddened you think your works will merit you forgiveness of sin

Jesus said if you confess Me... I will confess you..., BUT if you don't confess Me..., I won't confess you....
Does our confessing Him force/coerce/earn/demand that He confess us? NO!!!! But He would not be the God that He is if He reneged on His word.

yawn

Correct.

NOPE. Wrong again.

I already have God in my heart. And I do not fear death, for I will get to go HOME to be with God and Jesus forever. The only righteousness I have is that given me by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

So you believe in eternal security. that salvation can not be lost? When did you start believing this?

 

[Doug Brents]

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Unbelievers do not obey Him. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Saved by grace through faith, not works, yet through bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics, here come the works anyway according to your false gospel.

Confessing that Jesus is Lord is a conviction of the heart, along with believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead. It's not about simply reciting the words, "Jesus is Lord" as a work for salvation from a check list of steps but acknowledging and professing allegiance. The word of faith is in our mouth and heart together (Romans 10:8-10) and confession is a confirmation of faith that is by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3) which is why we will be saved if we confess. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that) but is a deep personal conviction from the heart that Jesus is our Lord and Savior.

In the process of changing our mind and choosing to place our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and becoming saved, (Acts 20:21) we come to agree with God that we are sinners who deserve death and cannot save ourselves. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) This does not mean that we will never sin again at all after that. (1 John 1:8-10) You redefine repentance as moral self-reformation and place it "after" faith/believing the gospel in your check list of steps which then turns repentance into a work for salvation. What a mess!

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

In Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by/signified in the outward ceremony of water baptism).

As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. The language in Acts 22:16 is similar to the statement of Christ when He took the bread and said, "This is my body." (Matthew 26:26) The bread was only the emblem of His body. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ. Every time a believer is immersed, he washes away his sins in the same sense Paul did: not literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the blood of Christ by which sins are actually washed away. (1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5)

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html

Scripture does agree with me.

False. Accepting/receiving a free gift is not earning salvation. (Romans 2:8,9; 5:15-18; 6:23) How many free gifts have you accepted/received over the years at Christmas time that you worked for and earned? You continue to try and "shoehorn" your own personal definition of non-meritorious works "into" salvation through faith, not works, but the shoe does not fit.

Based on your false gospel, which is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics, you turn repentance, confession and baptism into works for salvation and don't even seem to realize it. The Israelites did not receive the gift of eternal life for marching around Jericho. Your faulty human logic misses the mark.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17) So, faith to you is intellectual assent "conjoined" works. What a mess! There is not faith that saves to begin with if there is no faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-9) The action/good works FOLLOW having been saved through faith. (Ephesians 2:10) You still have the cart before the horse. According to your flawed logic, the cart may even be the horse.

False. Action is the fruit, and a good tree bears/produces good fruit, but a bad tree bears/produces bad fruit. (Matthew 7:17) You have the cart before the horse and remain under the delusion that works are the source of life in faith, which is like saying that fruit produced from a tree is the source of life for the tree. In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Water baptism is the picture and Spirit baptism is the reality.

I don't have an empty profession of belief in the gospel. I whole heartedly trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and my faith has been evidenced by works. (James 2:18) It's your lack of belief in the gospel that cannot result in salvation no matter many works that you conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works.

Faith may be demonstrated by works but faith itself is not the works, and we are saved by faith, not works. You have a divided faith in Christ and works. Faith must trust 100% in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in order to be alive. After that we show our faith by our works, but we do not establish it.

Actually, I have repented, I believe the gospel, I have confessed Christ, and I have received water baptism. So, what's the problem? Oh, I'm not actually trusting in never sinning again as a work for salvation to save me and I'm not actually trusting in my confession of Christ to save me as a work for salvation and I'm not actually trusting in my water baptism to save me as a work for salvation. I'm trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation/faith in Christ.

Oh, the irony. Those who refuse to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) have not obeyed Him (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers/make believers/nominal Christians/pseudo-Christians etc.. do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up from an unregenerate heart in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. The faith of works-salvationists is dead in the water!

Look at just one verse, and if you read it correctly and accept the truth of it, then we can continue this discussion. If you fail to read it correctly, then I will know that you are intellectually dishonest and refuse to accept the truth of God's Word.

What does Rom 10:9-10 say is required to receive salvation?

 

[Doug Brents]

That is completely unbiblical

Faith is trust. If trust does not exist, then there can be no actions to make trust real.

Not unBiblical at all.
If you trust in something, then you will take action consistent with that trust.
If you do not trust in it, then you will not take action.
That is the heart of faith. Those who have faith in God take action consistent with their trust of God. Those who do not have faith in Him will not take the actions He demands.

 

[mailmandan]

Look at just one verse, and if you read it correctly and accept the truth of it, then we can continue this discussion. If you fail to read it correctly, then I will know that you are intellectually dishonest and refuse to accept the truth of God's Word.

What does Rom 10:9-10 say is required to receive salvation?

I already explained to you why we will be saved "if" we confess. Romans 10:8 and 1 Corinthians 12:3 sheds light on this as well. Confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation from a check list of steps. BTW confession (step 3) in your 4 step plan of salvation precedes baptism (step 4) which is problematic for you.

Also, someone who is mute (cannot speak) would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10. Confessing and believing here are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together.

 

[Doug Brents]

I already explained to you why we will be saved "if" we confess. Romans 10:8 and 1 Corinthians 12:3 sheds light on this as well. Confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation from a check list of steps.

So you are saying that confession comes after salvation is received?

BTW confession (step 3) in your 4 step plan of salvation precedes baptism (step 4) which is problematic for you.

Not problematic for me at all.

Also, someone who is mute (cannot speak) would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10. Confessing and believing here are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together.

Irrelevant. We are not going to invalidate the rule because you can think up an exception. Stick with what Scripture says.

 

[mailmandan]

So you are saying that confession comes after salvation is received?

The word of faith is in our mouth and heart TOGETHER. (Romans 10:8) Confession of Jesus as Lord comes upon conversion and after. There is divine influence when confessing that Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit. Unlike lip service confession as a work for salvation

Not problematic for me at all.

It is problematic because you teach that salvation comes after baptism (step 4) which comes after confession unto salvation (step 3) You can't have it both ways.

Irrelevant. We are not going to invalidate the rule because you can think up an exception. Stick with what Scripture says.

Not irrelevant at all. Your flawed hermeneutics misses the mark.

 

[Doug Brents]

The word of faith is in our mouth and heart TOGETHER. (Romans 10:8)

That is the word of faith that is preached, not the faith that is in the person who is just now hearing the Gospel preached.

Confession of Jesus as Lord comes upon conversion and after.

How then does Scripture say that it RESULTS IN receiving salvation. The thing that result in something else MUST come first. You are being intellectually dishonest.

There is divine influence when confessing that Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit. Unlike lip service confession as a work for salvation

Very true. But divine influence of the Holy Spirit DOES NOT mean the person is already saved.

It is problematic because you teach that salvation comes after baptism (step 4) which comes after confession unto salvation (step 3) You can't have it both ways.

Salvation does not come after baptism. It happens DURING/IN baptism (Rom 6, Col 2, 1 Pet 3). And yes, this comes after confession which is typically done immediately before/as a part of baptism (as it did with the eunuch in Acts 8:36-38 and the jailer in Acts 16:33).

Not irrelevant at all. Your flawed hermeneutics misses the mark.

You assume that someone who is mute deserves to be saved, contrary to Scripture. Perhaps God made them mute because they were to be an object of His wrath. Or perhaps He will accept their confession via their "mouth" which is their hands (their method of communication). We cannot alter our doctrine to fit "exceptions". We must teach what the Word of God says, not what your preconceptions want to change Scripture to say.

 

[JLB]

1 Cor 8:5
"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;"
Paul wrote of there being many kinds of lords and gods, but there is just ONE Lord and ONE God that can save (Eph 4:4-5)

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

The context is about "one" as in unity.

Many members but "one" (unified) body.


So are there three Gods or one God?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Look at just one verse, and if you read it correctly and accept the truth of it, then we can continue this discussion. If you fail to read it correctly, then I will know that you are intellectually dishonest and refuse to accept the truth of God's Word.

What does Rom 10:9-10 say is required to receive salvation?

What does it NOT say is required?

Water baptism

Next!!!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Not unBiblical at all.
If you trust in something, then you will take action consistent with that trust.
If you do not trust in it, then you will not take action.
That is the heart of faith. Those who have faith in God take action consistent with their trust of God. Those who do not have faith in Him will not take the actions He demands.

Yes,

So if you truly trust God. you will show a changed life and act.

If you do not , you may not show a changed life (Many people do works that make it appear they trusted. but in the end, they still have not trusted. So works are a poor proof of who really trusted

 

[JLB]

1 Cor 8:5
"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;"
Paul wrote of there being many kinds of lords and gods, but there is just ONE Lord and ONE God that can save (Eph 4:4-5)

James 2:14
"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him?"
James speaks of different kinds of faith, but there is just ONE faith that can save (Eph 4:5)

Matt 3:11-13; Acts 2:38; etc
The NT speaks of different kinds of baptisms, but there is ONE baptism that can save (Eph 4:4-5).

To claim there is more than one kind of baptism that can save people today, then a person might as well claim there are more than one kind of lord and god that can save or more than one kind of faith that can save people today. To deny there is one baptism that saves, (or deny any of the "ones" of Eph 4:4-5) is to deny the very foundation of Christianity itself.

Water baptism is not mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:13


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


Water baptism is done by man, a human being, such as John the Baptist, the disciples, or a pastor.


The baptism in 1 Corinthians 12:13, the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer. The Holy Spirit is the One who brings about a person being born again; born of the Spirit.


Water baptism does not save. Water baptism is for those who are already saved; born again, regenerated by the Spirit.


There are three baptisms, as Paul teaches. When you understand this, you won't be clouded by traditional denominational doctrine.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2

1. Moses = Christ. This is initial salvation. Believe and be born again. The Holy Spirit baptizes into Christ.
2. In the Cloud = The baptism of the Holy Spirit; Jesus Baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
3. In the sea = This is water baptism. Man is the baptizer in water.

 

[Doug Brents]

What does it NOT say is required?

Water baptism

LOL, so you think that this is the only verse that talks about salvation in Scripture? Or that it stands alone and apart from all other Scripture? You want to interpret this verse by itself, and not have it agree with ALL the rest of Scripture? Hmmm.

Yes,

So if you truly trust God. you will show a changed life and act.

If you do not , you may not show a changed life (Many people do works that make it appear they trusted. but in the end, they still have not trusted. So works are a poor proof of who really trusted

Indeed, many will show a "changed life" but God will tell them in the end, "I never knew you." But if you truly trust in God, then you will do what He said to do in order to get what He promised.

 

[TomL]

Not unBiblical at all.
If you trust in something, then you will take action consistent with that trust.
If you do not trust in it, then you will not take action.
That is the heart of faith. Those who have faith in God take action consistent with their trust of God. Those who do not have faith in Him will not take the actions He demands.

You just proved my point

Trust (faith) must first exist before it produces fruit.

 

[mailmandan]

That is the word of faith that is preached, not the faith that is in the person who is just now hearing the Gospel preached.

Paul said the word of faith is in our mouth and heart and not merely in our ears. (Romans 10:8-10) By the time the word of faith reaches our mouth and heart we have received it and not just heard it.

How then does Scripture say that it RESULTS IN receiving salvation. The thing that result in something else MUST come first. You are being intellectually dishonest.

Because the word of faith is in our mouth and heart TOGETHER. Not a two separate steps to salvation but chronologically together. You turn confession into a work for salvation from a check list of steps.

Its your who is being dishonest for the sake of your biased church doctrine in the same way you are blatantly dishonest with Acts 10:43-47.

Very true. But divine influence of the Holy Spirit DOES NOT mean the person is already saved.

It means this confession was divinely influenced by the Holy Spirit and was not merely lip service confession.

Salvation does not come after baptism. It happens DURING/IN baptism (Rom 6, Col 2, 1 Pet 3).

Salvation comes before baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) You confuse what is signified in water baptism with what is procured in Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 1:13)

And yes, this comes after confession which is typically done immediately before/as a part of baptism (as it did with the eunuch in Acts 8:36-38 and the jailer in Acts 16:33).

Immediately? Not hardly. Not everyone is standing next to water when they receive Christ through faith. I was saved through faith on a Saturday night several years ago and confessed Christ immediately but was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. Again, your 4 step plan of salvation is problematic.

You assume that someone who is mute deserves to be saved, contrary to Scripture.

None of us deserve to be saved. (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

Perhaps God made them mute because they were to be an object of His wrath. Or perhaps He will accept their confession via their "mouth" which is their hands (their method of communication). We cannot alter our doctrine to fit "exceptions". We must teach what the Word of God says, not what your preconceptions want to change Scripture to say.

My preconceptions? That's rich. You wrote the book on preconceptions. The word of faith is still in the mouth of a mute person (even though they are unable to verbally speak) and their faith will be expressed another way. Still not a work for salvation but a confirmation of faith, which is the whole point.

 

[Doug Brents]

You just proved my point

Trust (faith) must first exist before it produces fruit.

Repentance is not a fruit of faith. It is faith.
Confession of Jesus as Lord is not a fruit of faith. It is faith.
Baptism is not a fruit of faith. It is faith.