The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Eternally-Grateful]

It is more than just a "spiritual baptism". Sometimes the Spirit "covers us" and sometimes it is different. Everyone wants to pretend they have same "fullness" of the "covering" as the apostles had in the early church.

They don't. The reason why is "agreement" isn't there. They even agreed in things that were wrong. Much like when God "filled" the Temple that He never wanted built.

What does "God" do when His children will not really listen to Him? I tell what He often does.....

It lets people do what they want to do to find the end of themselves.....

We are often stubborn. We learn stubbornness from our fathers/mothers. Chastening often takes time.

romans 6: 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized (By God) into Christ Jesus were baptized (By God) into His death? 4& Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism (By God) into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Gal 3: 27 For as many of you as were baptized (By God) into Christ have put on Christ.

1 cor 12: For by one Spirit (God the Holy Spirit) we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Its spirit baptism.. And this happened to all that have been saved

 

[Doug Brents]

Sure you do. Those at Corinth sought proof of Christ speaking in Paul. He gave it to them. You're not a "Paul" by any stretch of the imagination. Neither am I. I don't even care to be such. It doesn't enter my thoughts anymore. I don't desire authority.

I would that I were Paul's equal. He suffered and died for the honor of our Lord. I have not been found worthy of such suffering yet, but I pray that I might eventually.

I want all men to answer directly to Jesus Christ. All men. There are no "eyes/ears/mouths" left today in the Body of Christ.

Each and every person who is in the Church is an eye, or ear, or mouth, or hand, or foot in the Body of Christ. Each and every one has a part to play, and I am sorry that you do not see yourself in that light.

You were not appointed like Philip. You're not alone. Everyone claiming such authority is full of malarkey.

Again, your opinion is duly noted. Thank you for sharing.

Do whatever you want to with what I say. You will anyway. I don't preach/teach for any place of authority. I simply tell the Truth. Do whatever you want with it. I'm not wanting you to serve me.

Truth? You seem to not know a thing about it. You don't tell Truth. You tell your opinions.

You want other to serve you. I don't believe you even realize what authority is.

No, I do not want anyone to serve me. I want them to serve my Master, the Lord of Heaven and Earth, the Creator of all that is, God the eternal Father, and Jesus His Son.

 

[Doug Brents]

your claiming your saved because you got Baptized.

No, I am claiming to be saved because God promised that He would save me if I obeyed Him.
Acts 3:19 - Repent so that you can be forgiven.
Rom 10:9-10 - Confess Jesus so that you can be saved.
Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, John 3:5 - Be baptized so that you can be forgiven, saved, washed clean, added to the family of God, united with the death and resurrection of Jesus.

You did. You, When you use the word I did something. Your taking credit and boasting.

Not at all. When Naaman got home, I am sure someone asked him, "How did you cure your leprosy?" If he was anything like me his response was probably something like, "I went to the prophet of God, and he told me to go dip in the Jordan River seven times. Now, this seemed preposterous to me, but I was convinced that I should at least try it. So I went and dipped seven times, and the moment that I came out of the water the seventh time, I was completely healed. My skin was like that of a baby. Isn't God amazing. He cured me, and I will forever worship Him and Him alone."

I am completely making that scenario up, but does that sound like Naaman is bragging about what he did? Or what God did?

God saved me, period.

thats what seperates you and I.

I pray that God has saved you, as you claim. And if that is the case, then NOTHING separates you from me.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No, I am claiming to be saved because God promised that He would save me if I obeyed Him.
Acts 3:19 - Repent so that you can be forgiven.
Rom 10:9-10 - Confess Jesus so that you can be saved.
Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, John 3:5 - Be baptized so that you can be forgiven, saved, washed clean, added to the family of God, united with the death and resurrection of Jesus.

I rest my case. Your claiming you are saved because you got baptized,, Please own up to what you say, and stop telling me I am wrong in what you believe

 

[TomL]

I disagree

What do you disagree with

And wash, cleanse, purify, overwhelm and imbue

That these are valid meanings ?

wash and cleanse are pretty much the only translations you will see in most versions

or that wash, cleanse purify are pretty much the only translations you will see

Mark 7:4 (LEB) — 4 And when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast to—for example, the washing of cups and pitchers and bronze kettles and dining couches.)


Luke 11:38 (LEB) — 38 And the Pharisee, when he saw it, was astonished that he did not first wash before the meal.


KJV
Mark 7:4And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Luke 11:38And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner.

ESV

Mark 7:4and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.)
Luke 11:38The Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash before dinner.

NASB
Mark 7:4and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.)
Luke 11:38When the Pharisee saw it, he was surprised that He had not first ceremonially washed before the meal.

CSB
Mark 7:4When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they have washed. And there are many other customs they have received and keep, like the washing of cups, pitchers, kettles, and dining couches.)
Luke 11:38When the Pharisee saw this, he was amazed that he did not first perform the ritual washing before dinner.

I agree.. It is the spirit who baptized.. hence baptism of the spirit or with him, not in him

I agree. "with" is the proper preposition.

The spirit immerses me into Christ (gal 5)
The spirit immerses me into his Death and Burial (rom 6)
The spirit immerses me into his body (1 cor 12)



this is the anointing

Moses washed the people in the river, then poured the oil on them anointing them.

The anoiting of the spirit. and the baptism OF the spirit are two different events.

These are a pouring out of the Spirit and refer to the future pouring out of the Spirit seen at Pentecost and beyond

Isaiah 44:3 (LEB) — 3 For I will pour out water on a thirsty land and streams on dry ground. I will pour my spirit out on your descendants and my blessing on your offspring.

Ezekiel 39:29 (LEB) — 29 And I will not hide my face again from them when I pour out my Spirit over the house of Israel,” declares the Lord Yahweh.

Joel 2:28 (LEB) — 28 And it will happen afterward thus: I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your elders will dream dreams; your young men shall see visions.

Joel 2:29 (LEB) — 29 And also on the male slaves and on the female slaves, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

Acts 2:17 (LEB) — 17 ‘And it will be in the last days,’ God says, ‘I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.

Acts 2:18 (LEB) — 18 And even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

 

[Doug Brents]

I rest my case. Your claiming you are saved because you got baptized,, Please own up to what you say, and stop telling me I am wrong in what you believe

Who do I claim did the saving?
What is the power that I claim does the saving?
When do I claim the saving was administered?
Who is submitting to whom?

God does the saving.
The Holy Spirit (God) is the active participant who, by the power of the blood of Jesus, removed my sin.
When? When He told me it would be, when I submitted to Him in baptism. Is that me saving myself? Is that me earning salvation? Or is that God keeping His promise?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Who do I claim did the saving?
What is the power that I claim does the saving?
When do I claim the saving was administered?
Who is submitting to whom?

God does the saving.
The Holy Spirit (God) is the active participant who, by the power of the blood of Jesus, removed my sin.
When? When He told me it would be, when I submitted to Him in baptism. Is that me saving myself? Is that me earning salvation? Or is that God keeping His promise?

You said this

No, I am claiming to be saved because God promised that He would save me if I obeyed Him.

Be baptized so that you can be forgiven, saved, washed clean, added to the family of God, united with the death and resurrection of Jesus.

You can't claim you trusted in God to save you when you are relying on your acts of obedience.

I am sorry my friend.

 

[TomL]

2 Kings 5:14 - "So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, in accordance with the word of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean."
and dipped himself
וַיִּטְבֹּ֤ל (way·yiṭ·bōl)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 2881: To dip, to immerse

UM dipping does not prove submersion

And the command was to wash

2 Kings 5:10 (LEB) — 10 Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go, you must wash seven times in the Jordan, then your flesh shall return to you, and you shall be clean.”

(rḥṣ), VB. douse, wash, bathe, rinse. Greek equiv. fr. LXX: λούω (38), νίπτω (13), πλύνω (5), ἀπολούω



Verb Usage
1. to wash† — to cleanse with a cleaning agent, such as soap, and water; sometimes only with water. Stems: qal, 1. Related Topics: Ablution; Wash; Clean.
qal
Le 1:9 יִרְחַ֣ץ בַּמָּ֑יִם
—
2. to wash one’s body — to cleanse one’s body with a cleansing agent, such as soap, and water; sometimes only with water. Stems: qal, 21; hitpael, 1. Related Topics: Ablution; Wash; Clean.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Hebrew Bible (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

there is no command to submerge his entire body under water

 

[TomL]

NOT a single NT gospel verse says those who "believe alone" are saved.
Belief does save (Jn 8:24) but also repentance saves, confession saves, water baptism saves, grace saves, the blood of Christ saves etc, etc. Many things are necessary in being saved, not just one thing alone saves.

Seriously?

It says believe and you will receive remission of sin

Believe and you will be sealed by the Spirit

Believe that you might have life

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

their sins remitted

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Romans 3:25–26 (LEB) — 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus.

 

[TomL]

The point being made with the eunuch was he that was WATER baptized, not baptized with the HS.

You can argue over the mode of water baptism whether the eunuch was sprinkled with water or immersed in water but he was WATER baptized.
Since baptism is a 'burial' then the eunuch was immersed, buried in a watery grave then reside up from that watery grave to walk in newness of life.
He was not buried in the Spirit then raised up from the Spirit.

Why would the Spirit send for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch if the Spirit could just 'spirit baptize' the eunuch Himself? Because God has already determined in the great commission that disciples would go and teach by preaching the gospel (1 Cor 1:21) and disciples would go and administer water baptism. Nothing miraculous took place with the eunuch in his being taught by Phillip and water baptized by Phillip. Again, Mt 28:19-20 disciples are made by being taught and water baptized by humans and men can never change what God has instituted. All amn can do is pervert what God instituted with man made ideas.

Um who said water baptism is a burial?

Where in the bible do read of a watery grave?

These are ideas you impose upon scripture.

There is absolutely nothing in the text which speaks of how he was water baptized or the point at which he was saved



Not only do you have no evidence for that

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

What do you disagree with

You said

wash and cleanse are pretty much the only translations you will see in most versions

I shared multiple examples in rom 6 gal 3 and 1 cor 12

And wash, cleanse, purify, overwhelm and imbue

That these are valid meanings ?

They are possible meanings yes. The jews used this as a term which represented ritual cleansing of the temple items and other things

wash and cleanse are pretty much the only translations you will see in most versions

This is what I disagree with. this is in error.

or that wash, cleanse purify are pretty much the only translations you will see

Mark 7:4 (LEB) — 4 And when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast to—for example, the washing of cups and pitchers and bronze kettles and dining couches.)


Luke 11:38 (LEB) — 38 And the Pharisee, when he saw it, was astonished that he did not first wash before the meal.


KJV
Mark 7:4And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
Luke 11:38And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner.

ESV

Mark 7:4and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.)
Luke 11:38The Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash before dinner.

NASB
Mark 7:4and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.)
Luke 11:38When the Pharisee saw it, he was surprised that He had not first ceremonially washed before the meal.

CSB
Mark 7:4When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they have washed. And there are many other customs they have received and keep, like the washing of cups, pitchers, kettles, and dining couches.)
Luke 11:38When the Pharisee saw this, he was amazed that he did not first perform the ritual washing before dinner.

These have no bearing on the Baptism John said the one who comes after him, will baptize with the holy spirit and fire

Or his baptism of repentance

With Jesus saying he has a baptism to be baptized with

With Jesus telling his disciples they would be baptized like that also

Or Jesus saying you will be baptized with the HS not many days.

or like I said, romans 6, Gal 3, 1 cor 12. and I can add Col 2,

or in Matt 28, the baptism of new disciples

I agree. "with" is the proper preposition.

These are a pouring out of the Spirit and refer to the future pouring out of the Spirit seen at Pentecost and beyond

Isaiah 44:3 (LEB) — 3 For I will pour out water on a thirsty land and streams on dry ground. I will pour my spirit out on your descendants and my blessing on your offspring.

Ezekiel 39:29 (LEB) — 29 And I will not hide my face again from them when I pour out my Spirit over the house of Israel,” declares the Lord Yahweh.

Joel 2:28 (LEB) — 28 And it will happen afterward thus: I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your elders will dream dreams; your young men shall see visions.

Joel 2:29 (LEB) — 29 And also on the male slaves and on the female slaves, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

Acts 2:17 (LEB) — 17 ‘And it will be in the last days,’ God says, ‘I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.

Acts 2:18 (LEB) — 18 And even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.

Acts 10:45 (LEB) — 45 And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

Again, your getting the anointing of the spirit (the pouring out. or pouring on) with the baptism of the spirit.

Jesus was anointed when he was baptized by John the spirit like a dove came upon him.

 

[TomL]

Precisely, and that living, active faith MUST be present BEFORE salvation is received, for that living, active faith is the conduit through which God delivers salvation to us (Eph 2:8-9).

Um if living faith does not exist, there will be no action

Actions do not make faith alive. they only reveal it.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Um if living faith does not exist, there will be no action

Actions do not make faith alive. they only reveal it.

100%

if we CLAIM we have faith but have no works can that CLAIMED faith save us?

No place does James say they had faith, they professed or claimed they had faith.

Being hearers only and not doers proved their claim was a false claim. their faith was dead, lifeless. which is why they had no works.

 

[Doug Brents]

You said this

No, I am claiming to be saved because God promised that He would save me if I obeyed Him.

Be baptized so that you can be forgiven, saved, washed clean, added to the family of God, united with the death and resurrection of Jesus.

You can't claim you trusted in God to save you when you are relying on your acts of obedience.

I am sorry my friend.

You are making leaps of logic that are taking you off of a cliff, my friend. If God says He will do something if you do something first (Matt 10:32-33), then does doing what He said to do constitute doing what He said He would do yourself?
In other words, God said that if you confess Jesus then He would confess you.
Now, does confessing Jesus mean that you are Jesus and have confessed yourself for Him?
No, I trust that God is a God of His word. And because I trust that He will do what He says:
I trust that when I confess Him before men, He will confess me before the Father (Matt 10:32-33.
I trust that when I repent of sin, He will forgive me (Acts 3:19).
I trust that when I verbally confess Him, He will save me (Rom 10:9-10).
I trust that when I am baptized in water, He will wash away my sins and resurrect me like He did Jesus (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Rom 6:1-7, Gal 3:26-27).
That is not reliance on my obedience. It is reliance on Him to keep His word and do what He said He would do.

 

[Doug Brents]

UM dipping does not prove submersion

And the command was to wash

2 Kings 5:10 (LEB) — 10 Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go, you must wash seven times in the Jordan, then your flesh shall return to you, and you shall be clean.”

(rḥṣ), VB. douse, wash, bathe, rinse. Greek equiv. fr. LXX: λούω (38), νίπτω (13), πλύνω (5), ἀπολούω



Verb Usage
1. to wash† — to cleanse with a cleaning agent, such as soap, and water; sometimes only with water. Stems: qal, 1. Related Topics: Ablution; Wash; Clean.
qal
Le 1:9 יִרְחַ֣ץ בַּמָּ֑יִם
—
2. to wash one’s body — to cleanse one’s body with a cleansing agent, such as soap, and water; sometimes only with water. Stems: qal, 21; hitpael, 1. Related Topics: Ablution; Wash; Clean.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Hebrew Bible (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

there is no command to submerge his entire body under water

The command was to bathe (whatever that means).
He dipped and was healed.
He fulfilled what was commanded, or he wouldn't have been healed.
It does not matter how you define the words. What matters is that he was told what to do, he did what he was told, and God healed him because of his faith. If he had not done what was commanded, then he would not have had faith, and he would not have been healed.

 

[Doug Brents]

Um if living faith does not exist, there will be no action

Actions do not make faith alive. they only reveal it.

They mean that it is alive. They reveal it to be alive. And if it does not produce action, then that shows it to be dead. James 2:26 says that as the body without the soul is dead, so faith without action is dead. Action then is the soul of faith. If there is no soul, then there is no life.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You are making leaps of logic that are taking you off of a cliff, my friend.

Your the one falling off the cliff my friend

If God says He will do something if you do something first (Matt 10:32-33)

No. He said he will do somethign if we trust him

repent and be saved.

Believe and be saved.

You see the word baptism in a few spots. and claim that it the means when it is not.

, then does doing what He said to do constitute doing what He said He would do yourself?
In other words, God said that if you confess Jesus then He would confess you.
Now, does confessing Jesus mean that you are Jesus and have confessed yourself for Him?
No, I trust that God is a God of His word. And because I trust that He will do what He says:
I trust that when I confess Him before men, He will confess me before the Father (Matt 10:32-33.
I trust that when I repent of sin, He will forgive me (Acts 3:19).
I trust that when I verbally confess Him, He will save me (Rom 10:9-10).
I trust that when I am baptized in water, He will wash away my sins and resurrect me like He did Jesus (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Rom 6:1-7, Gal 3:26-27).
That is not reliance on my obedience. It is reliance on Him to keep His word and do what He said He would do.

Again, the bolded part is YOU DOING SOMETHING> it is YOU SAVING YOURSELF.

Again, tghe tax collector did not get up off the ground and get baptized to go home justified. His faith made him free.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

They mean that it is alive. They reveal it to be alive. And if it does not produce action, then that shows it to be dead. James 2:26 says that as the body without the soul is dead, so faith without action is dead. Action then is the soul of faith. If there is no soul, then there is no life.

God does not need proof.

If you think he does. You do not know God very well

 

[TomL]

You said

wash and cleanse are pretty much the only translations you will see in most versions

I shared multiple examples in rom 6 gal 3 and 1 cor 12

They are possible meanings yes. The jews used this as a term which represented ritual cleansing of the temple items and other things

This is what I disagree with. this is in error.

The word baptizo is not translated in any of those verses

Perhaps you were not aware but baptize is a transliteration not a translation.

 

[TomL]

They mean that it is alive. They reveal it to be alive. And if it does not produce action, then that shows it to be dead. James 2:26 says that as the body without the soul is dead, so faith without action is dead. Action then is the soul of faith. If there is no soul, then there is no life.

So, to be revealed, a living faith must pre-exist the action by which it reveals itself.