The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[TomL]

No, His was not NT baptism. It was similar in that it was an immersion in water (seven times as opposed to just once). But it had nothing to do with the salvation of his soul (although it did cause him to come to belief and trust in God).

Um you have no evidence he was submerged underwater

2 Kings 5:10 (LEB) — 10 Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go, you must wash seven times in the Jordan, then your flesh shall return to you, and you shall be clean.”


You are reading your views into the passage

 

[Seabass]

'For by one Spirit
are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit'.
(1Cor. 12:13)

Hello @Seabass,

There is one baptism that takes place in the sight of God today, and that is believer's baptism. Performed by the Spirit the moment we believe in our heart the Lord Jesus. But at the time that 1 Corinthians was written there were two baptisms in operation: Baptism in water for the remission of sins, and baptism of the Spirit, which was accompanied by spiritual gifts. Later, following the revelation given to Paul concerning the fellowship of the church of the one body (Eph. 3:9), of which Christ is the Head, there is just ONE baptism in operation, not made with hands: Which is part of The Unity Of The Spirit that we are to KEEP, in the bond of peace: Which the Lord Jesus Christ has secured for us, via the cross (Ephesians 4:3-7}.

Praise His Holy Name

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi,

The eunuch was saved when he was water baptized for remission of sins, Act 2:38. The eunuch was not baptized with the HS for that baptism does not save, is not commanded to any man therefore cannot be obeyed as water baptism that has been commanded to all men.

There is but one baptism in this present dispensation (Eph 4:5) and that is water baptism, hence the ONE baptism of 1 Cor 12:13 is the ONE baptism of 1 Cor 1:13 is the ONE baptism of the great commission. The ONE baptism of the great commission is commanded to all men, administered by humans, it saves and lasts till the end of time.

a) none of this is true of baptism with the HS... baptism with the HS has never been commanded to anyone, it does not save, it is not how disciples are made nor lasts till the end of time.

b) the baptism of the great commission has disciples (humans) administering it. Humans cannot administer any kind of spirit baptism while men can water baptize. As with the case with the eunuch where Phillip water baptized the eunuch per the great commission. Note the Spirit did not teach the eunuch nor 'spirit baptize' the eunuch but sent for Phillip to TEACH and then WATER baptize the eunuch per the great commission.

"Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:"
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."

"make" is the main verb. The verbs 'teaching" and "baptizing" are modal, present participles that occur at the same time as the main verb meaning teaching and baptizing is HOW disciples aew made, teaching and baptizing, are the means, are the mode by which disciples are made. Again, this baptism of the great commission is to be performed by disciples (humans) and humans can only administer water baptism.

Hence those Corinthians were "made" disciples per the great commission in them being taught and water baptized. Paul water baptized some of those Corinthians himself 1 Cor 1:14,16 per the great commission. Hence those Corinthians were made disciples by being taught and having disciples as Paul, Cephas and Apollos water baptize them per the great commission. Those Corinthians were NOT made disciples in any way apart from the great commission, APART from being taught and being water baptized by humans......exactly as disciples today are made.

Hence there was NOT two baptisms for those Corinthians, just the ONE baptism of the great commission that has disciples administering water baptism, the mode by which disciples are made as the eunuch was water baptized by Phillip and those Corinthians were water baptized by Paul, Cephas and Apollos. NO VERSE teaches disples are made by being baptized with the HS.

1 Cor 12:13...the Spirit is the Agent that teaches men how to be saved by Hos word the Bible by being water baptized. Water is the element in which baptism takes place.

Jn 3:5-------------SPirit ++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13-----Spirit ++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>>>> enter the body

Since there is just one way to be saved/enter the body-kingdom then both verses must express the exact same idea. Spirit is the Agent that teaches men to be saved by being water baptized. Clearly baptized of 1 Cor 12;13 refers to water baptism. Again, those Corinthians cold only be made disciples per the great commission with teaching and human administered water baptism as the mode by which all disciples are made. Those Corinthians were not made disciples in any way apart from the great commission's teaching and water baptizing.

============================

1 Cor 1:12-13
Now this I mean, that each one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized into the name of Paul?

This baptized here in 1 Cor 1:13 is the one baptism of 1 Cor 12:13 is the one baptism of the great commission that is the name of Chist. Paul's point here in 1 Cor 1:13 is for one to be "of" someone then two things must be true of that someone. That someone must;
1) be crucified for you
2) you must be baptized in that someone's name

Since these two things are only true of Christ then none could be baptized in the name of Paul, Apollos or Cephas. Christ died for every man (Heb 2:9) but every man will not be saved for every man will not be baptized in the name of Christ. It takes BOTH 1 and 2 to take place to be of Christ.

Water baptism is in the name of Christ per Mt 28:19-20; Acts 2:38; Acts 10:48 which is the one water baptism of the great commission. Baptism with the HS was never in the name of Christ.

Baptism of the great commission, the one baptism of the great commission, the one baptism of 1 Cor 12:13 and 1 Cor 1:13
--commanded to all men
--administered by humans
--the mode by which disciples are made
--saves
--lasts till the end of time in order for disciples to be perpetually made through time.....till the end of time

NONE of the above things are true of baptism with the HS meaning baptism with the HS is NOT how those Corinthians were made disciples per the great commission.

Only Christ can administer baptism with the HS, Mt 3:11. If baptism with the HS is the baptism that saves, then all those Christ did not baptize with the HS are lost due to Christ's failure to baptize them with the HS for being baptized with the HS is out of the control of man. Since God has commanded men to be water baptize and men can submit to water baptism, then those that are not water baptized will be lost due to their own failure to be water baptized. But since it is God's desire all men be saved then God would baptize all men with the HS and we have Universalism. But since all will not be saved you have God choosing winners and losers in who will and will not be saved.

 

[TomL]

Hi,


There is but one baptism in this present dispensation (Eph 4:5) and that is water baptism, hence the ONE baptism of 1 Cor 12:13 is the ONE baptism of 1 Cor 1:13 is the ONE baptism of the great commission. The ONE baptism of the great commission is commanded to all men, administered by humans, it saves and lasts till the end of time.

Um

Ephesians 4:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

I see there is one Lord who baptizes, One Spirit by which we are baptized into the one body

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB95) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

What I don't see is any mention of water

 

[Complete]

Hi,​

The eunuch was saved when he was water baptized for remission of sins, Act 2:38. The eunuch was not baptized with the HS for that baptism does not save, is not commanded to any man therefore cannot be obeyed as water baptism that has been commanded to all men.​

Hello @Seabass

Thank you for bringing my mind to the story of Philip and the eunuch, for it is a lovely record to read of the eunuch's salvation, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. For it was not baptism that saved him, but his declaration of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son.

'And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water:
and the eunuch said, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. "
And he answered and said," I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
And he commanded the chariot to stand still:
and they went down both into the water,
both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
And when they were come up out of the water,
the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip,
that the eunuch saw him no more:
and he went on his way rejoicing.'
(Act 8:36-39)

See also John 20:31:-
'But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'

I am not in a position to enter into debate in relation to the points you have raised, for I don't have the time at present, but I will enter something written by another.

Which Baptism For You? - In The Bible There Are Many - Believer.com

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Note The Beautiful Typology In 1 Peter 3:18-22: 1. The Ark It is clearly implied that the Ark represents a rela...

believer.com

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[mailmandan]

Hello @Seabass

Thank you for bringing my mind to the story of Philip and the eunuch, for it is a lovely record to read of the eunuch's salvation, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. For it was not baptism that saved him, but his declaration of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son.

'And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water:
and the eunuch said, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. "
And he answered and said," I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
And he commanded the chariot to stand still:
and they went down both into the water,
both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
And when they were come up out of the water,
the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip,
that the eunuch saw him no more:
and he went on his way rejoicing.'
(Act 8:36-39)

See also John 20:31:-
'But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'

I am not in a position to enter into debate in relation to the points you have raised, for I don't have the time at present, but I will enter something written by another.

Which Baptism For You? - In The Bible There Are Many - Believer.com

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Note The Beautiful Typology In 1 Peter 3:18-22: 1. The Ark It is clearly implied that the Ark represents a rela...

believer.com

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

In the article you posted this statement speaks loud and clear - "The unbelieving naturally cling to the ceremonial baptism. It ministers to the flesh. But no one shall experience The Resurrection and see God without the experience of the real baptism in this life."

 

[TomL]

Hi,

The eunuch was saved when he was water baptized for remission of sins, Act 2:38. The eunuch was not baptized with the HS for that baptism does not save, is not commanded to any man therefore cannot be obeyed as water baptism that has been commanded to all men.

Um there is no evidence for what you call immersion here

Note both when down into the water

Acts 8:38 (LEB) — 38 And he ordered the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water—Philip and the eunuch—and he baptized him.

when down Katabaino

Katabaino - went down , stepped down used to denote dismounting a chariot Josephus so uses it 12, 4, 3. Homer, Herodotus,Plato, Xenophon use it to note mounting upon a vessel, a camel, a horse etc. In verse 31 Phillip stepped up (anabaino) into the chariot. so katabaino notes the stepping down from the chariot. Thus they stepped down from the chariot into the water There is no step by step journey. They dismounted and were in the water.

There is no evidence of a step by step journey.

and while both were in the water the eunuch was baptized

BTW nothing in the text states his salvation transpired because of water baptism

 

[TomL]

In the article you posted this statement speaks loud and clear - "The unbelieving naturally cling to the ceremonial baptism. It ministers to the flesh. But no one shall experience The Resurrection and see God without the experience of the real baptism in this life."

Right without receiving the Holy Spirit there is no spiritual life to be had

 

[Seabass]

Um

Ephesians 4:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

I see there is one Lord who baptizes, One Spirit by which we are baptized into the one body

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB95) — 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

What I don't see is any mention of water

It is by Christ's ONE baptism of the great commission in this present gospel dispensation that disciples are made. Like disciples were made in the first century in Corinth by being taught and water baptized is the exact same way disciples today are made by being taught and water baptized. Disciples (humans) are the ones instructed to 'go' and teach and baptize. Disciples can only administer water baptism, as Phillip did with the eunuch and Paul did with some of those Corinthians. Meaning the baptism in 1 Cor 12:13 and 1 Cor 1:13 MUST be the one human administer water baptism of the great commission. Again, those Corinthians were not made disciples any differently than the eunuch or people today by being taught and water baptized. There is no such thing in the NT gospel as an untaught, unbaptized disciple.

So the baptism of the great commission in Mt 28:19-20 and Mk 16:16 is human administered water baptism.

In Mark's account of the great commission in Mk 16:16...he that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZE shall be saved...here we have the ONE Lord instructing about the ONE faith and ONE baptism that saves. Again, those Corinthians were not saved APART from the great commission, APART from being taught by Paul and other disciples and being water baptized by Paul and other disciples.

People will not see what they don't want to see.

=====================================================================


from my post #3 in this thread:


Context Matters....the Context leading up to 1 Cor 12:13

The context is not Paul giving instructions on how sinners are saved but rather those Corinthians were in strife and jealousy over the diverse gifts given to them by the Holy Spirit. Some boasted of the gift they were given while some had no gift at all. To bring unity to the Corinthians over their diverse gifts Paul used phrases as "one Lord", "one God" and "one Spirit".
1 Cor 12:11
"but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as he will."

Paul shows the one Spirit gives these miraculous gifts as He wills. Since each gift was given to men as the Spirit willed, then there should be no jealousy or boasting over what the Spirit willed, there should be unity with these gifts for each gift is important and comes from the one same Spirit as He willed.

This leads to v13;
"For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit."

Why did not Paul say baptized with water if water baptism was under consideration in this verse? Because THE CONTEXT is about bringing unity to those Corinthians over their diverse gifts given to them by the will of the ONE Spirit. Hence it fit Paul's purpose to bring unity by mentioning the Agent (the One Spirit) rather than the element (water). The Agent/Administrator is the Spirit that inspired the Apostles to teach the necessity of water baptism for the remission of sins. That same ONE Spirit that willed gifts was used to bring unity over those gifts, now we have Paul bringing unity over their water baptism that was given by that ONE Agent/Administrator.

This is similar to John 4:1-2;
"When therefore the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
(although Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples),"

Verse 1 says Jesus baptized but verse 2 says Jesus baptized not. This is not a contradiction. Jesus did not water baptize people personally Himself but Christ was the Agent/Administrator that commanded His disciples to go and baptize. Hence all those who obediently submit to water baptism are then truly being baptized by the Agent Jesus Christ. Just as all those Corinthians that obediently submitted to water baptism were truly being baptized by the Agent, the ONE Holy Spirit.

 

[TomL]

NONE of the above things are true of baptism with the HS meaning baptism with the HS is NOT how those Corinthians were made disciples per the great commission.

Um it is the baptism en the holy Spirit by which we are saved

God the father promised the indwelling of the Spirit

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (LEB) — 26 And I will give a new heart to you, and a new spirit I will give into your inner parts, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will give my spirit into your inner parts, and I will make it so that you will go in my rules, and my regulations you will remember, and you will do them.

Ezekiel 11:19 (LEB) — 19 And I will give to them one heart, and a new spirit I will give in their inner parts. And I will remove their heart of stone from their body, and I will give to them a heart of flesh,


John 14:16–17 (LEB) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.

He would do it baptizing en the Spirit

Acts 1:4–5 (LEB) — 4 And while he was with them, he commanded them, “Do not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for what was promised by the Father, which you heard about from me. 5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
for without the Spirit- the Father's promise, without a new heart you are not Christ's
Romans 8:9–11 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also make alive your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[TomL]

Context Matters....the Context leading up to 1 Cor 12:13

The context is not Paul giving instructions on how sinners are saved but rather those Corinthians were in strife and jealousy over the diverse gifts given to them by the Holy Spirit. Some boasted of the gift they were given while some had no gift at all. To bring unity to the Corinthians over their diverse gifts Paul used phrases as "one Lord", "one God" and "one Spirit".
1 Cor 12:11
"but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as he will."

Paul shows the one Spirit gives these miraculous gifts as He wills. Since each gift was given to men as the Spirit willed, then there should be no jealousy or boasting over what the Spirit willed, there should be unity with these gifts for each gift is important and comes from the one same Spirit as He willed.

This leads to v13;
"For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit."

Why did not Paul say baptized with water if water baptism was under consideration in this verse? Because THE CONTEXT is about bringing unity to those Corinthians over their diverse gifts given to them by the will of the ONE Spirit. Hence it fit Paul's purpose to bring unity by mentioning the Agent (the One Spirit) rather than the element (water). The Agent/Administrator is the Spirit that inspired the Apostles to teach the necessity of water baptism for the remission of sins. That same ONE Spirit that willed gifts was used to bring unity over those gifts, now we have Paul bringing unity over their water baptism that was given by that ONE Agent/Administrator.

Sorry the Spirit is not the agent - Jesus is, and the spirit is the element of the baptism

Matthew 3:11 (LEB) — 11 I baptize you with water for repentance, but the one who comes after me is more powerful than I am, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 1:8 (LEB) — 8 I baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Luke 3:16 (LEB) — 16 John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but the one who is more powerful than I am is coming, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Acts 11:16 (LEB) — 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

 

[TomL]

In Mark's account of the great commission in Mk 16:16...he that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZE shall be saved...here we have the ONE Lord instructing about the ONE faith and ONE baptism that saves. Again, those Corinthians were not saved APART from the great commission, APART from being taught by Paul and other disciples and being water baptized by Paul and other disciples.

Um those who believe are saved

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

their sins remitted

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Romans 3:25–26 (LEB) — 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus.

 

[Doug Brents]

Does "Belief Only" Appear in Scripture?
Your argument claims that the concept of "belief only" appears in only one verse, and in the negative. This likely refers to James 2:19:

“You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!”

No, but close. It is actually James 2:24 - "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

However, this verse is not a refutation of salvation by faith; rather, James is addressing a dead faith that lacks works as evidence. James does not say faith is unnecessary but that true faith results in action.

Precisely, and that living, active faith MUST be present BEFORE salvation is received, for that living, active faith is the conduit through which God delivers salvation to us (Eph 2:8-9).

More importantly, the Bible does teach salvation by faith alone in multiple places:

John 3:16 – “Whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
John 5:24 – “Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life.”
John 6:29 – “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
Acts 16:31 – “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.”
Romans 3:28 – “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works.”

These verses do not merely suggest faith is part of salvation but explicitly state that it is the means of receiving eternal life. Your argument that faith alone is a "one-verse concept" is completely false.

These verses do indeed say that faith leads to us receiving salvation. But that faith must be living and active. It cannot be a dead, passive, mental only thing.

2. What About Obedience? Doesn't That Include Baptism?
The accusation also assumes that salvation requires baptism or works, yet Scripture refutes this.

Romans 4:5 – “And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
Titus 3:5 – “He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy.”

Baptism is an act of obedience following salvation, but it is not the cause of salvation.

Not quite. Baptism is not a work of righteousness. It is an act of faith which is counted as righteousness by God. Just as the walls fell for Israel because they marched around the city as they were told to, just as Naaman was healed when he dipped the seventh time as he was told to, just as the oil continued to flow for the widow until all the jars she could borrow were filled, so we receive salvation when we have done what we were told to do to receive it.

If baptism were necessary for salvation, Paul would not have said:

1 Corinthians 1:17 – “For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel.”
If baptism were essential, Paul’s statement would make no sense.
Instead, faith is the requirement, and baptism is an outward sign of that faith, just as circumcision was in the Old Covenant (Romans 4:11).

As I have said before, Paul did not go to Corinth for the harvest, he went to sow the Seed. So he did not go there expecting to baptize, but simply to plant the Seed that he knew others would come and water, fertilize, and then harvest later. A farmer doesn't go into his field in the spring with his reaping tools. He goes in spring with his plow, and cultivator, and seeding tools. In the fall he goes in with the reaper.

3. Are We Placing Ourselves Above Scripture?
The accusation that believing in salvation by faith alone is "placing oneself above Scripture" is ironic, given that Scripture itself teaches salvation by faith apart from works (Romans 3:28, Ephesians 2:8-9). Those insisting on works-based salvation are the ones adding to Scripture.

Check those scriptures again. They do not exclude ALL works, only works of the Law. Rom 10:9-10 tells us that there are actions that lead to/result in receiving salvation, because the physical action of confessing Jesus as Lord with the mouth RESULTS IN receiving salvation. This makes it clear that it is not ALL works that are excluded, only works of the Law, works of righteousness, works by which we think we could "earn" salvation. But baptism, repentance, and confession of Jesus are not any of these things.

Rather than "removing" anything, the biblical position affirms what God has already said:

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause.

The key here is "faith alone", and faith is not real (it is not faith) if it does not have action along with it.

Final Thought
Your argument is based on a misrepresentation of Scripture, ignores numerous passages that affirm salvation by faith, and assumes that baptism or works contribute to justification. The biblical teaching remains: faith alone in Christ saves, and true faith will produce obedience as evidence-not as a requirement for justification.

Faith will indeed produce obedience, and that obedience MUST start before salvation is received. Because as Eph 2:8-9 implies, faith is the conduit through which we receive salvation. And that faith, that conduit, must be whole, complete, and "alive", which it cannot be if it does not have action along with it just as James 2:20, 22, 24, 26 says.

 

[Seabass]

Um there is no evidence for what you call immersion here

Note both when down into the water

Acts 8:38 (LEB) — 38 And he ordered the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water—Philip and the eunuch—and he baptized him.

when down Katabaino

Katabaino - went down , stepped down used to denote dismounting a chariot Josephus so uses it 12, 4, 3. Homer, Herodotus,Plato, Xenophon use it to note mounting upon a vessel, a camel, a horse etc. In verse 31 Phillip stepped up (anabaino) into the chariot. so katabaino notes the stepping down from the chariot. Thus they stepped down from the chariot into the water There is no step by step journey. They dismounted and were in the water.

There is no evidence of a step by step journey.

and while both were in the water the eunuch was baptized

BTW nothing in the text states his salvation transpired because of water baptism

The point being made with the eunuch was he that was WATER baptized, not baptized with the HS.

You can argue over the mode of water baptism whether the eunuch was sprinkled with water or immersed in water but he was WATER baptized.
Since baptism is a 'burial' then the eunuch was immersed, buried in a watery grave then reside up from that watery grave to walk in newness of life.
He was not buried in the Spirit then raised up from the Spirit.

Why would the Spirit send for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch if the Spirit could just 'spirit baptize' the eunuch Himself? Because God has already determined in the great commission that disciples would go and teach by preaching the gospel (1 Cor 1:21) and disciples would go and administer water baptism. Nothing miraculous took place with the eunuch in his being taught by Phillip and water baptized by Phillip. Again, Mt 28:19-20 disciples are made by being taught and water baptized by humans and men can never change what God has instituted. All amn can do is pervert what God instituted with man made ideas.

 

[Seabass]

Um those who believe are saved

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Romans 10:8–13 (LEB) — 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

their sins remitted

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Romans 3:25–26 (LEB) — 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus.

NOT a single NT gospel verse says those who "believe alone" are saved.
Belief does save (Jn 8:24) but also repentance saves, confession saves, water baptism saves, grace saves, the blood of Christ saves etc, etc. Many things are necessary in being saved, not just one thing alone saves.

 

[Seabass]

Hello @Seabass

Thank you for bringing my mind to the story of Philip and the eunuch, for it is a lovely record to read of the eunuch's salvation, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. For it was not baptism that saved him, but his declaration of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son.

'And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water:
and the eunuch said, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. "
And he answered and said," I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
And he commanded the chariot to stand still:
and they went down both into the water,
both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
And when they were come up out of the water,
the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip,
that the eunuch saw him no more:
and he went on his way rejoicing.'
(Act 8:36-39)

See also John 20:31:-
'But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'

I am not in a position to enter into debate in relation to the points you have raised, for I don't have the time at present, but I will enter something written by another.

Which Baptism For You? - In The Bible There Are Many - Believer.com

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Note The Beautiful Typology In 1 Peter 3:18-22: 1. The Ark It is clearly implied that the Ark represents a rela...

believer.com

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

We know from the great commission disciples have been instructed to 'go' and teach and baptize. Hence disciples are made by humans teaching the gospel to others AND baptizing them. No teaching and baptizing then no disciples are made for it takes BOTH teaching and water baptizing. Hence the eunuch was made a disciple as all men in the first century under the gospel as men today are under the gospel and that by teaching and bwater baptizing, Hence in the NT there is no such thing as an untaught, unbaptized Christians since BOTH teaching and baptizing have been made essential by God in making disciples. The Spirit could have taught and 'spirit baptized' the eunuch Himself but he did not for the Spirit sent for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch there by making a Christian out of the eunuch per the great commission.

Again, NO ONE under this present gospel dispensation is made a disciple from being taught and being water baptized per the great commission. In all the gospel conversions found in Acts, disciples were made by men being taught the gospel and being water baptized.....in every single case.

 

[Doug Brents]

So, what do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? What say YOU?

I say what Scripture says, that the Gospel is the good news of Jesus' perfect life, death, and resurrection, and the salvation that He offers to those who obey Him. To BELIEVE the Gospel means to obey it (2 Thes 1:8), to have faith in Jesus (Eph 2:8-9), to make Him your Lord (Rom 10:9-10), to repent of sin (Acts 2:38, 3:19), and to be baptized into Him in order to receive the forgiveness of sin that He offers (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 22:16).

I was added to the family of God (Acts 4:4) and baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13) the moment I believed the gospel (Acts 15:7-9; Ephesians 1:13-14)

I wish Scripture agreed with you.

There is nothing man can do to merit salvation (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

agreed.

and coming to terms with that, changing our mind and choosing to believe the gospel is not doing nothing.

If there is NOTHING that we can do to merit salvation, and "choosing to believe the gospel is not doing nothing", then you have done something to earn salvation, and have violated your own lack of requirements.

Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed. Yet you seem determined to DO something in order to HELP Jesus save you which renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior. Let the boasting begin.

What a massive convoluted, yet failed, logic leap. Repentance, confession, and baptism are not supplements to Jesus' work, any more than the marching of Israel around Jericho was a supplement to God's knocking the walls down.

False. You actually believe that a dead faith produces works in order to become a living faith?

No. A non-existent faith is made real by acting on the intellectual assent in the mind/heart of a person. There is no faith to begin with if there is no action.

That is like saying that a dead tree produces fruit in order to become a living tree. Faith is alive FIRST (made alive together with Christ by grace through faith, not works, then created in Christ Jesus unto good works. - Ephesians 2:5-10) You have the cart before the horse.

Action is not the fruit of faith, it is the soul (James 2:26). The fruit comes from the Spirit who takes up residence in our heart when we are united with Christ Jesus through baptism.

In regard to "faith without works is dead," (James 2:20) James does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. Again, that would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) *The natural man just cannot understand. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

So your empty profession of belief in the Gospel cannot result in salvation, because the lack of evidential works demonstrates that this faith is nothing more than an empty profession, merely claiming to have faith. Faith is alive, proven out, demonstrated when one repents, confesses Jesus as Lord, and is baptized (buried with Him) where the Holy Spirit unites him with the Lord and resurrects him like the Lord into New Life.

How about a little context. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

And your empty profession of faith/dead faith which sits in its chair and does not obey the Lord's command is exactly that: dead and worthless, and not genuine. That empty claim cannot save, because Jesus is not the savior of those who have empty professions, but of those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).

 

[praise_yeshua]

The point being made with the eunuch was he that was WATER baptized, not baptized with the HS.

No. Water was part of the process.

Like @Doug Brents ....

You are only focusing on what you want to see.

What else was in the water? Do you not see other things in the water?

Yet, here you are only seeing water. Philip was appointed. You're not. Claiming you are is preposterous. No one sent you to baptize.

Are you really Abraham? Are you Philip? Are you Peter?

 

[praise_yeshua]

We know from the great commission disciples have been instructed to 'go' and teach and baptize. Hence disciples are made by humans teaching the gospel to others AND baptizing them. No teaching and baptizing then no disciples are made for it takes BOTH teaching and water baptizing. Hence the eunuch was made a disciple as all men in the first century under the gospel as men today are under the gospel and that by teaching and bwater baptizing, Hence in the NT there is no such thing as an untaught, unbaptized Christians since BOTH teaching and baptizing have been made essential by God in making disciples. The Spirit could have taught and 'spirit baptized' the eunuch Himself but he did not for the Spirit sent for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch there by making a Christian out of the eunuch per the great commission.

Again, NO ONE under this present gospel dispensation is made a disciple from being taught and being water baptized per the great commission. In all the gospel conversions found in Acts, disciples were made by men being taught the gospel and being water baptized.....in every single case.

You're not part of the "great commision". You're just a "coattail rider." Everyone that makes such claims today are just that.

Can you imagine Peter and the apostles facing all these "coattail riders" when they get to heaven?

Everyone all claiming to be just like the apostles........ because they read the Bible and insist they were chosen by their "fathers in the faith"....

Must be nice to just claim such authority when they weren't talking about you.....

 

[Doug Brents]

I can read. You mentioned them. Which required my response.

I asked about lineage. Authority. You don't qualify to be an elder. You are PICKED.

That is what Titus and Timothy did. They PICKED from among those meet certain qualification. Not all of those qualified were PICKED.

How do you know not all of them were picked? It doesn't say that in Scripture. It only says that they were to appoint men who qualified to the position. All of those who qualified could have been appointed.

I can't see what isn't there. That mission wasn't given to you. That mission was fulfilled in the early church. Not you. We are the descendants of those who either rejected or accepted them.

I hate you can't see this. You have no lineage to those chosen. I'm not saying you don't have access or even a relationship to God. I am saying you were not chosen and sent to baptize.

The Apostles were told to teach their students EVERYTHING that Jesus taught them. That includes the commission to go, baptize, and teach others. This means that each person who is taught and accepts the grace of God receives the same commission that the Apostles did which was passed to their students, and to their students, ad-nauseam.

So faith doesn't matter? Just baptism..... right?

No, baptism is an act of faith, as I have said several times already. You keep making these leaps back to falsehood after the point has already been addressed. Why?

If you didn't have faith and you were baptized, do you still get regenerated?

No, you just get wet. I have seen it many times. A person gets baptized for the right reason, and their friend (in order to appear part of the "in crowd") gets baptized at the same time. But they don't really believe, they haven't really repented of their sins, they haven't decided to make Jesus their Lord. They just went through the motions.

Think..... You're the one that has been endless connecting faith and etc to baptize.... However, here you prove that you only care about baptize. The faithless get baptized all the time. It is nothing but a ritual. A ritual you're practicing.

Pouring oil from a tiny bottle into all the large jars she could borrow was just a ritual for the widow. But it resulted in her having enough money to redeem her son. It is not about the ritual, it is about the Lord who commanded it as the entry point into relationship with Him.

 

[Doug Brents]

Um you have no evidence he was submerged underwater

2 Kings 5:10 (LEB) — 10 Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go, you must wash seven times in the Jordan, then your flesh shall return to you, and you shall be clean.”


You are reading your views into the passage

2 Kings 5:14 - "So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times, in accordance with the word of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean."
and dipped himself
וַיִּטְבֹּ֤ל (way·yiṭ·bōl)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's 2881: To dip, to immerse