The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Eternally-Grateful]

Absolutely

Baptism involves the putting of one object in conjunction with another so that there is a transfer of influence-
an imbuement .

sadly, Baptism is just an action word.

One is "placed into"
One is "immersed" (as apposed to dipped or "bapto")
One is overwhelmed (A ship is overwhelmed by waters during a storm and sinks, it is said to have been "baptizo"
One is overwhelmed by calamity or circumstances.
one is placed into union with another person (Israel was baptized into Moses)

In Jesus day, it was also what we call today a process of dyeing a fabric to make it a certain color. where the one who dyed was called a baptizer. the process was called a baptism. and the fabric was baptized into the dye.

I again re-iterate failing to interpret the word has caused mass confusion and alot of false doctrines

 

[TomL]

sadly, Baptism is just an action word.

One is "placed into"
One is "immersed" (as apposed to dipped or "bapto")
One is overwhelmed (A ship is overwhelmed by waters during a storm and sinks, it is said to have been "baptizo"
One is overwhelmed by calamity or circumstances.
one is placed into union with another person (Israel was baptized into Moses)

In Jesus day, it was also what we call today a process of dyeing a fabric to make it a certain color. where the one who dyed was called a baptizer. the process was called a baptism. and the fabric was baptized into the dye.

I again re-iterate failing to interpret the word has caused mass confusion and alot of false doctrines

Which shows what I had stated about the influence of one thing upon another

In your bolded comment we have the effect of a coloring agent upon the fabric

Holy Spirit baptism puts us in Christ,making us new creations

 

[TomL]

No, I did not fail to address it. You act as if this verse is a stand-alone, independent verse. It is not. It MUST agree with all other Scripture. So we must include the understanding that 1 Pet 3:21 says that it is in water baptism that we are saved by the Holy Spirit, and Jesus says that both the Spirit and water are necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, when we read 1 Cor 12:13. Yes, the Holy Spirit is the active component that makes us saved and brings us into union with God. But He does not do so except in the process of water baptism.

Sorry water baptism is not the only type of baptism we have in the bible

We have baptisms of fire, of the Holy Spirit, of troubles, or trials

You are simply assuming your view with no contextual support from the particular passage

Where the holy Spirit and not water is mentioned along with the Greek preposition en

which is used in multiple passages identifying the baptismal element

BTW you ignored the rest of my post

 

[Doug Brents]

Sorry water baptism is not the only type of baptism we have in the bible

I didn't say it was the only type of baptism we have in the Bible. I said it is the only baptism of significance in the NT. Eph 4:5 says that there is ONLY ONE BAPTISM. Sure there are other types of baptism mentioned in Scripture, but they don't matter to the NT Christ follower. The only baptism that matters to the NT Christ follower is the one in which we are saved, which according to 1 Pet 3:21 and Acts 8:36 requires water, and according to Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19 requires human action.

We have baptisms of fire, of the Holy Spirit, of troubles, or trials

You are simply assuming your view with no contextual support from the particular passage

Where the holy Spirit and not water is mentioned along with the Greek preposition en

which is used in multiple passages identifying the baptismal element

Sure, but none of those has anything to do with salvation.

BTW you ignored the rest of my post

I did, because it was meaningless to the conversation. The only part that was necessary to address was this first part, because once you have this part right the rest of that takes care of itself.

 

[TomL]

No, I did not fail to address it. You act as if this verse is a stand-alone, independent verse. It is not. It MUST agree with all other Scripture. So we must include the understanding that 1 Pet 3:21 says that it is in water baptism that we are saved by the Holy Spirit, and Jesus says that both the Spirit and water are necessary to enter the Kingdom of God, when we read 1 Cor 12:13. Yes, the Holy Spirit is the active component that makes us saved and brings us into union with God. But He does not do so except in the process of water baptism.

You did not address this

The promise of the father

John 14:16–17 (LEB) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.

concerns the indwelling

The Spirit was not given to indwell men before the glorification of Jesus

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)


This promise was fulfilled at Pentecost

Acts 2:33 (LEB) — 33 Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this that you see and hear.

which is when the baptism en the Spirit transpired

Acts 1:4–5 (LEB) — 4 And while he was with them, he commanded them, “Do not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for what was promised by the Father, which you heard about from me. 5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

At the baptism en the Spirit, the Spirit comes to indwell men

 

[TomL]

I didn't say it was the only type of baptism we have in the Bible. I said it is the only baptism of significance in the NT. Eph 4:5 says that there is ONLY ONE BAPTISM. Sure there are other types of baptism mentioned in Scripture, but they don't matter to the NT Christ follower. The only baptism that matters to the NT Christ follower is the one in which we are saved, which according to 1 Pet 3:21 and Acts 8:36 requires water, and according to Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19 requires human action.

Sure, but none of those has anything to do with salvation.

I did, because it was meaningless to the conversation. The only part that was necessary to address was this first part, because once you have this part right the rest of that takes care of itself.

Absurd

The baptism en the Holy Ghost sent by Jesus is less significant in your eyes than that of man performing a water act

BTW it the Spirit's indwelling - the promise of the Father- the baptism en the Spirit first seen at Pentecost which saves
applying water of itself saves no one

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Which shows what I had stated about the influence of one thing upon another

In your bolded comment we have the effect of a coloring agent upon the fabric

Holy Spirit baptism puts us in Christ,making us new creations

Amen!

 

[Doug Brents]

You did not address this

The promise of the father

John 14:16–17 (LEB) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.

concerns the indwelling

The Spirit was not given to indwell men before the glorification of Jesus

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)


This promise was fulfilled at Pentecost

Nope, this was fulfilled before Jesus ascended (John 20:22). This is when the indwelling of the Spirit that was promised in John 14 was fulfilled.

Acts 2:33 (LEB) — 33 Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this that you see and hear.

which is when the baptism en the Spirit transpired

Acts 1:4–5 (LEB) — 4 And while he was with them, he commanded them, “Do not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for what was promised by the Father, which you heard about from me. 5 For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

At the baptism en the Spirit, the Spirit comes to indwell men

The "baptism" received by the 120 on Pentecost and the Gentiles with Cornelius was not the indwelling, nor the fulfillment of John 14. It had nothing whatsoever to do with salvation, forgiveness of sin, or union with God, or the Church. Because it did not fulfill Jesus' statement in John 3:5, or Peter's statement in 1 Pet 3:21, or Philip's teachings as indicated in Acts 8:36. Your doctrine on "baptism 'en' the Holy Spirit" MUST include these other passages as well, but you insist on ignoring them.

 

[Doug Brents]

Absurd

The baptism en the Holy Ghost sent by Jesus is less significant in your eyes than that of man performing a water act

No, it is not. Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost occurs during water baptism, not before.

 

[mailmandan]

Absurd

The baptism en the Holy Ghost sent by Jesus is less significant in your eyes than that of man performing a water act

BTW it the Spirit's indwelling - the promise of the Father- the baptism en the Spirit first seen at Pentecost which saves
applying water of itself saves no one

Doug would walk around mountains of grace (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) in order to find water.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug would walk around mountains of grace (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) in order to find water.

No Dan. But I would walk around your mountains of false doctrines to find God.

 

[mailmandan]

No Dan. But I would walk around your mountains of false doctrines to find God.

You are the master of IRONY and until you get to the end of the creature you will not get to the beginning of the Creator. (Luke 18:9-14)

 

[praise_yeshua]

What does it say is the figure/symbol?
The FLOOD was a symbol of baptism. Baptism is the "real", that the Flood was a shadow of, just as the Tabernacle was a shadow of the Temple in Heaven (Heb 8:5), and the sacrifices in the Temple were a shadow of what Jesus did (1 Cor 5:7), and the Passover was a shadow of Jesus (Col 2:16-17).

So you're living in shadows and not the reality.

Where all those "under the flood" saved? You're not making any sense in this at all. You're just refusing to believe the clear message of baptism.

Again. You only baptize who you think qualifies. Which forces others THROUGH YOU. Which is the very definition of "man's hands".

Was the Passover (the shadow of Jesus) necessary to the Jews in Egypt? Absolutely it was. Every house that did not have the Passover blood on the door lost their first born. Baptism is also absolutely necessary for salvation, because it is through baptism that the Holy Spirit removes our sins and unites us to Jesus' death and resurrection (Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

You're living in shadows when the reality of Jesus Christ brings light. Christ has come. He set us free to know the Light. You're making my case for you.

If we apply what Peter wrote, then baptism is only a symbol/figure of redemption. Anyone can read it for themselves.

Again. You were not told to baptize. YOU have no authority.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I already have: Matt 28:19-20
But you don't believe that passage, so here are a couple of examples of those other than the Apostles who baptized:
Acts 8:36
1 Cor 1:12-17

You weren't there in Acts 8:36. That wasn't for you. You're not Philip. You don't have the authority of Philip. He was appointed. He was named. You were not. Stop this nonsense of claiming you were. You're not. They were. Not you. You have no connect to them.

Besides, He was Philips and Isaiah's convert. Not your convert. You had no authority over this believer. You have no right to administer the ordnance of baptism.

Are you going to claim apostolic appointment or authority?

In many things in the NT there are multiple things that can be right: eating meat sacrificed to idols for example (1 Cor 8).
But in some things there is only one right thing (if we are to be saved).
There is only one God that can be worshiped - The Creator God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Peter, Paul, etc.
There is only one way to enter into relationship with Him - Jesus
There is only one way to enter into Jesus - baptism in water

You're drawing "arbitrary lines".

Many people who claim to preach the Bible dispute this, but the Scripture, the Word of God is very clear about it.
So yes, I am a problem to those false teachers, because I shine Light on their false teaching.

Christ is the light. You're not light. I need Christ. You are optional.

Stop this "I'm chosen" nonsense.

 

[praise_yeshua]

sadly, Baptism is just an action word.

One is "placed into"
One is "immersed" (as apposed to dipped or "bapto")
One is overwhelmed (A ship is overwhelmed by waters during a storm and sinks, it is said to have been "baptizo"
One is overwhelmed by calamity or circumstances.
one is placed into union with another person (Israel was baptized into Moses)

In Jesus day, it was also what we call today a process of dyeing a fabric to make it a certain color. where the one who dyed was called a baptizer. the process was called a baptism. and the fabric was baptized into the dye.

I again re-iterate failing to interpret the word has caused mass confusion and alot of false doctrines

Poor methods.....

"baptizer" in this context had nothing to do with the ritual of baptism. Baptism means nothing without authority and intent.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, it is not. Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost occurs during water baptism, not before.

So Christ didn't have the Spirit before He was baptized?

Please make this argument.....

If you can't establish this, then it is just another reason you're wrong. Line by line. Precept by precept.

Every "water baptismal regeneration" advocate I've ever meet rightfully recognizes exceptions to their "rule". Even Catholics do.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are the master of IRONY and until you get to the end of the creature you will not get to the beginning of the Creator. (Luke 18:9-14)

You're saying you are the Pharisee? I agree.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Poor methods.....

"baptizer" in this context had nothing to do with the ritual of baptism. Baptism means nothing without authority and intent.

Poor thinking

Baptize is a word. Translate the word like you would any other word. Don't give it a meaning outside of its scope

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You're saying you are the Pharisee? I agree.

You fit much better, they like you thought they had to do righteous works..

Dan is more like the disciples. understood it was the cross alone that saved

 

[Doug Brents]

So you're living in shadows and not the reality.

You have it backwards. The Flood was the shadow, baptism is the reality.

Where all those "under the flood" saved? You're not making any sense in this at all. You're just refusing to believe the clear message of baptism.

No, it was those within the Ark, who by faith were brought safely through the Flood. Those outside the Ark, who had no faith and refused to get in the Ark, were destroyed by the Flood. Remember, those who fall on the Rock will be broken, but those on whom the Rock falls will be crushed (Matt 21:44).

Again. You only baptize who you think qualifies. Which forces others THROUGH YOU. Which is the very definition of "man's hands".

Who gave the qualifications in Scripture? I didn't write it. I am not God. But He did author it, and so I MUST obey it.

You're living in shadows when the reality of Jesus Christ brings light. Christ has come. He set us free to know the Light. You're making my case for you.

If we apply what Peter wrote, then baptism is only a symbol/figure of redemption. Anyone can read it for themselves.

You have it wrong. The Flood was the shadow, and baptism is the reality.

Again. You were not told to baptize. YOU have no authority.

I do. If you don't think you do, then YOU don't. But I see the authority clearly given to me by God in Scripture. You don't have to see it for it to be true of me. I pray that your eyes are opened to see it too.

You weren't there in Acts 8:36. That wasn't for you. You're not Philip. You don't have the authority of Philip. He was appointed. He was named. You were not. Stop this nonsense of claiming you were. You're not. They were. Not you. You have no connect to them.

I do indeed have a connection to them. They were the first in a long line of followers of Christ who have brought the Church from the first Century down to us today. I am as much in Christ as Philip, Mary, Barnabas, Cornelius, and all the other saints mentioned in Scripture. I do not claim to be an Apostle (there were only ever 14), and I am not yet qualified to be an Elder (my children are not yet of an age to believe), but beside that I have all the authority that God gave anyone in His Church.

Besides, He was Philips and Isaiah's convert. Not your convert. You had no authority over this believer. You have no right to administer the ordnance of baptism.

To the Eunuch, no. I am not his teacher. But over those that I do teach, YES, I have all the authority needed to baptize them. All authority was given to Jesus, and on that authority He passed some on to all believers to add more believers to the Church.

Are you going to claim apostolic appointment or authority?

Absolutely not. As I said, there have only ever been 14 Apostles of Jesus, and they all died before the end of the first century.

You're drawing "arbitrary lines".

Nope, just recognizing the lines drawn by Jesus and the Apostles in Scripture.

Christ is the light. You're not light. I need Christ. You are optional.

100% correct.

Stop this "I'm chosen" nonsense.

Why? On what basis do you claim that I am not chosen of God? On what basis do you dispute my authority?

So Christ didn't have the Spirit before He was baptized?

Luke 3:21-22, 4:1 - You tell me? The Spirit came upon Him in the form of a dove when He was baptized, and only after that does it say that He was "filled with the Holy Spirit". Does that mean that the Spirit was not with Him before that? I don't know.

Please make this argument.....

If you can't establish this, then it is just another reason you're wrong. Line by line. Precept by precept.

No, this does not mean I am wrong.

Every "water baptismal regeneration" advocate I've ever meet rightfully recognizes exceptions to their "rule". Even Catholics do.

Are there exceptions to God's commands? Not according to the examples He has given in the OT. Is baptism absolute? Is there some possibility of a situation where He will accept someone who was not baptized? There may be, but I cannot teach on exceptions. I would not base my soul, or the soul of anyone I was teaching, on the possibility of an exception. I can, and will, only teach on what the Word of God says. It leaves no room for exceptions.
Jesus says that NO ONE will see the Kingdom of God except they be reborn of BOTH water AND the Spirit. (doesn't sound like much room for exception).