The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Seabass]

If you read it, honestly, the verse says that the gifts will be in operation until the Lord returns. It will confirm them by their gifts.

It does not say miraculous gifts would last till the Lord returns no more than it says those Corinthians would last till the Lord returns.

Paul said they would cease, and they did, hence there is not a person alive today who possesses any miraculous gifts.

Jn 20:30-31
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The verb 'are written' is perfect tense denoting an act done in the past having continuing effect. In other words, those miracles that were done in the first century to induce a belief in people, John wrote them down for posterity so when people read them today they would continue to induce a beleif in people. Hence there is no need for miracles today for we have them written down for us to read and believe. To claim there are miracles needed today undermines the entire purpose of John writing them down for posterity......


"What was the purpose of miracles in the ministry of Christ, or in the apostolic age? As noted above, their design must be consistent with the lofty theme of redemption.

Of the early disciples who were endowed with spiritual gifts, Mark declares:

And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed (Mark 16:20).

The function of the signs was to confirm the revelatory process, i.e., the word of truth being communicated from God to man.

The writer of Hebrews argues similarly. He declares that the message regarding the “great salvation,” which at the first had been

spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard; God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will (2:3-4).

Of special interest in these passages is the term “confirm” (Grk. bebaioo). The word denotes evidence that establishes the validity of the divinely-given word (Brown 1975, 658). The supernatural gifts of the primitive age, therefore, had as their design the establishment of the credibility of Christ and his spokesmen, and so ultimately, the validation of their message, namely, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior of the world!

Now observe this very important point. If it can be established that those early miracles do corroborate the testimony of Christ, and those commissioned by him; and further, that the recording of these events in the New Testament was designed to perpetually accomplish that function, then it stands as demonstrated that the repetition of such signs is not needed today.

The fact is, that is exactly what is affirmed by the apostle John. He declares that the “signs” of Christ, which he records in his gospel account, “are written [gegraptai—perfect tense, abiding effect] that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31).

A. T. Robertson notes that this book “has had precisely this effect of continuous and successive confirmation of faith in Jesus Christ through the ages” (Robertson 1932, 317). Even those who claim that God is working miracles today, when asked if they believe that the recorded miracles of Christ in the New Testament are sufficient to establish faith in him, will answer affirmatively.

It ought to be abundantly clear, therefore, that since the miracles of the Bible continue to accomplish their original purpose, there is no need for a repetition of them today. They are not being replicated in this age!"

What Does the Bible Say About Miracles?

What is a miracle? What is the purpose of miraculous signs? Are genuine miracles happening today? What about the "miracles" of the so-called modern "faith-healers"? Do these indicate a miraculous presence of the Spirit in modern times? Study this important topic.

christiancourier.com

 

[Seabass]

Read my post again

I read it again, and.......?

 

[Truther]

It does not say miraculous gifts would last till the Lord returns no more than it says those Corinthians would last till the Lord returns.

Paul said they would cease, and they did, hence there is not a person alive today who possesses any miraculous gifts.

Jn 20:30-31
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The verb 'are written' is perfect tense denoting an act done in the past having continuing effect. In other words, those miracles that were done in the first century to induce a belief in people, John wrote them down for posterity so when people read them today they would continue to induce a beleif in people. Hence there is no need for miracles today for we have them written down for us to read and believe. To claim there are miracles needed today undermines the entire purpose of John writing them down for posterity......


"What was the purpose of miracles in the ministry of Christ, or in the apostolic age? As noted above, their design must be consistent with the lofty theme of redemption.

Of the early disciples who were endowed with spiritual gifts, Mark declares:

And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed (Mark 16:20).

The function of the signs was to confirm the revelatory process, i.e., the word of truth being communicated from God to man.

The writer of Hebrews argues similarly. He declares that the message regarding the “great salvation,” which at the first had been

spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard; God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will (2:3-4).

Of special interest in these passages is the term “confirm” (Grk. bebaioo). The word denotes evidence that establishes the validity of the divinely-given word (Brown 1975, 658). The supernatural gifts of the primitive age, therefore, had as their design the establishment of the credibility of Christ and his spokesmen, and so ultimately, the validation of their message, namely, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior of the world!

Now observe this very important point. If it can be established that those early miracles do corroborate the testimony of Christ, and those commissioned by him; and further, that the recording of these events in the New Testament was designed to perpetually accomplish that function, then it stands as demonstrated that the repetition of such signs is not needed today.

The fact is, that is exactly what is affirmed by the apostle John. He declares that the “signs” of Christ, which he records in his gospel account, “are written [gegraptai—perfect tense, abiding effect] that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31).

A. T. Robertson notes that this book “has had precisely this effect of continuous and successive confirmation of faith in Jesus Christ through the ages” (Robertson 1932, 317). Even those who claim that God is working miracles today, when asked if they believe that the recorded miracles of Christ in the New Testament are sufficient to establish faith in him, will answer affirmatively.

It ought to be abundantly clear, therefore, that since the miracles of the Bible continue to accomplish their original purpose, there is no need for a repetition of them today. They are not being replicated in this age!"

What Does the Bible Say About Miracles?

What is a miracle? What is the purpose of miraculous signs? Are genuine miracles happening today? What about the "miracles" of the so-called modern "faith-healers"? Do these indicate a miraculous presence of the Spirit in modern times? Study this important topic.

christiancourier.com

I guess faith ended also per Mark 16 when Jesus said “these signs shall follow them that believe….”?

As per...

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

 

[Seabass]

I guess faith ended also per Mark 16 when Jesus said “these signs shall follow them that believe….”?

As per...

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

In Mark 16:17-20 the plural pronouns "they" and "them" refer back to the nearest plural antecendent "the eleven" of v14.

In the context Jesus was speaking to His Apostles, v14, it was the Apostles who did not believe in this context vs 11,13. Hence, them (of the Apostles) that believe shall have signs following. Verses 19 & 20 make it clear that "them" and "they" refer to the Apostles. Paul even referred to these signs as "signs of an Apostle" (2 Cor 12:12). We also know that back in the first century when they did have signs, not every believing Christian possessed all the signs of Mk 16:17-18 for some had just one sign, some had no sign at all!! (1 Cor 12:29-30)

 

[Truther]

In Mark 16:17-20 the plural pronouns "they" and "them" refer back to the nearest plural antecendent "the eleven" of v14.

In the context Jesus was speaking to His Apostles, v14, it was the Apostles who did not believe in this context vs 11,13. Hence, them (of the Apostles) that believe shall have signs following. Verses 19 & 20 make it clear that "them" and "they" refer to the Apostles. Paul even referred to these signs as "signs of an Apostle" (2 Cor 12:12). We also know that back in the first century when they did have signs, not every believing Christian possessed all the signs of Mk 16:17-18 for some had just one sign, some had no sign at all!! (1 Cor 12:29-30)

No, the pronouns would be “ye” per those that were with him. Don’t be woke… Lol.

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
According to Heb 5:12-6:3, folks infatuated with baptism have some growing up to
do.
_

 

[Truther]

~
According to Heb 5:12-6:3, folks infatuated with baptism have some growing up to
do.
_

Skipping Acts 2:38 is considered rebellion, not maturity.

 

[Doug Brents]

~
According to Heb 5:12-6:3, folks infatuated with baptism have some growing up to
do.
_

No sir, that would be an improper application of Heb 5-6.
Please notice that in Matt 28:19, baptism is an act that the Apostles were commanded to perform.
Notice that in Mark 16:16 (a parallel passage to Matt 28:19), that same baptism is linked directly with the reception of salvation.
Notice that in Rom 6:1-4 and Col 2:11-14, the reception of salvation, forgiveness, Spiritual circumcision, and union with Christ's resurrection we are told all occur during this same baptism.
Notice that 1 Pet 3:21 says specifically that it is water baptism during which we are saved, not because it removes dirt from our flesh but because it brings about a clear conscience in us through Christ.

While these are elementary principles, so many of those who claim to be Christ Followers today fail to understand or submit to this clear Biblical teaching.

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
I'm okay with ritual baptism, but I am dead-set against making it the topic of a
perpetual bull session that never gets to the bottom of anything, especially seeing
as how Paul gave it a very low priority in his missionary work. (1Cor 1:17) If ritual
baptism were so all-fired important as some folks seem to think it is, then Paul
surely would've insisted folks get it done pronto.

Someone in my past forum experiences posed an interesting question that went like
this: Supposing a group of miners are practically buried alive deep underground in
a coal mine incident and, of a sudden, faced with their mortality, decide to take God
up on his offer per John 3:14-18 but there is no water anywhere to be found in that
tunnel and even if there was water, the miners could not reach it due to the yards
of material piled on top of them? Will those coal miners go to Hell in spite of their
RSVP with God about taking advantage of His son's crucifixion simply because they
weren't baptized when they died?
_

 

[Truther]

~
I'm okay with ritual baptism, but I am dead-set against making it the topic of a
perpetual bull session that never gets to the bottom of anything, especially seeing
as how Paul gave it a very low priority in his missionary work. (1Cor 1:17) If ritual
baptism were so all-fired important as some folks seem to think it is, then Paul
surely would've insisted folks get it done pronto.

Someone in my past forum experiences posed an interesting question that went like
this: Supposing a group of miners are practically buried alive deep underground in
a coal mine incident and, of a sudden, faced with their mortality, decide to take God
up on his offer per John 3:14-18 but there is no water anywhere to be found in that
tunnel and even if there was water, the miners could not reach it due to the yards
of material piled on top of them? Will those coal miners go to Hell in spite of their
RSVP with God about taking advantage of His son's crucifixion simply because they
weren't baptized when they died?
_

They go to the white throne along with the billions of others to be judged according to their works. Obeying Acts 2:38 is a privilege. Try it.

 

[Olde Tymer]

~

They go to the white throne along with the billions of others to be judged according
to their works.

That is the very same destructive mind-set displayed by hard core Jews when they
insist "Unless you are circumcised after the manner of Moses you cannot be saved."
(Acts 13:1)

When people's safety hinges upon a ritual, it denigrates the value of the hell that
Jesus endured on the cross.

I watched a Mel Gibson interview back when his movie "The Passion Of The Christ"
was released. He told the moderator that Jesus' crucifixion opened the door to
Heaven; but Gibson stopped short of saying Jesus' crucifixion gets people in.
_

 

[Doug Brents]

~
I'm okay with ritual baptism, but I am dead-set against making it the topic of a
perpetual bull session that never gets to the bottom of anything, especially seeing
as how Paul gave it a very low priority in his missionary work. (1Cor 1:17) If ritual
baptism were so all-fired important as some folks seem to think it is, then Paul
surely would've insisted folks get it done pronto.

But he did insist that folks get on with it pronto! Acts 10:48, 16:33 and Acts 22:16 all show urgency in being baptized. And Paul's statement that he was glad that he had not baptized more people in 1 Cor 1:14 did not mean that baptism was not important, but that he was glad his name could not be more prominent in the debate over what sect of Christ Follower people belonged to. Paul was there in Corinth to sow the seeds of the Gospel, not to reap a harvest.

Someone in my past forum experiences posed an interesting question that went like
this: Supposing a group of miners are practically buried alive deep underground in
a coal mine incident and, of a sudden, faced with their mortality, decide to take God
up on his offer per John 3:14-18 but there is no water anywhere to be found in that
tunnel and even if there was water, the miners could not reach it due to the yards
of material piled on top of them? Will those coal miners go to Hell in spite of their
RSVP with God about taking advantage of His son's crucifixion simply because they
weren't baptized when they died?
_

Let me pose a similar question to you. After the wedding party finally arrives and enters the feast, and the virgins with no extra oil finally show up with their lamps lit, did the master of the house let them in? Or did He send them away (to Hell) telling them that He did not know them? Heb 5:9 is very clear that Christ is the author of salvation to those who obey Him. Not to those who believe in Him but do nothing when they have the opportunity. Jesus is not a safety net. He is not there for us to hold in reserve living how ever we want to until right at the last when there is no other hope, and then we pull Him out and say, "Ok, now I am ready to give my life to you, (when there is nothing left of my life for you to get in the way of me enjoying)."

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
The five unwise maidens are commonly faulted for their lack of sufficient oil, but
that was only minor compared to the ramifications of abandoning their posts.

Had they stuck to their guns (so to speak) they could've joined the procession
along with everyone else. They may have endured a measure of chagrin for letting
their lamps go out, but at least they wouldn't miss the party.

In other words; they let something relatively minor distract their attention from
something far more important; sort of like Nero concerning himself with trifles while
Rome is on fire all 'round the city.

And then anon the bridegroom protested he didn't know the five silly girls, but I'm
pretty sure he didn't know the other five either. The thing is: while the entrance
was open, the general public was welcome to come on in and join the celebration,
but once the door was shut and festivities commenced, late arrivals were permitted
inside only if they were the bridegroom's friends.

This particular story has something to do with the kingdom of heaven so I believe
it's best to interpret the particulars relative to Jesus' return. (Matt 25:13)

** The maidens aren't banished to outer darkness in this story as are the folks in
Matt 8:11-12 and Matt 22:2-14
_

 

[Truther]

They go to the white throne along with the billions of others to be judged according to their works. Obeying Acts 2:38 is a privilege. Try it.

I can see Fred now….laughing at Peter and Paul over the idea of Jesus name baptism that they had. The white throne to him is a crack up.

 

[Truther]

~


That is the very same destructive mind-set displayed by hard core Jews when they
insist "Unless you are circumcised after the manner of Moses you cannot be saved."
(Acts 13:1)

When people's safety hinges upon a ritual, it denigrates the value of the hell that
Jesus endured on the cross.

I watched a Mel Gibson interview back when his movie "The Passion Of The Christ"
was released. He told the moderator that Jesus' crucifixion opened the door to
Heaven; but Gibson stopped short of saying Jesus' crucifixion gets people in.
_

Unless you were baptized, in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins like Peter you cannot be saved.

This replaces Acts 13:1 to antibaptimalists.

 

[Fred]

I can see Fred now….laughing at Peter and Paul over the idea of Jesus name baptism that they had. The white throne to him is a crack up.

What passage shows that Peter received such baptism?

Yeah, I'm laughing at your absurd assertions.

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
● John 3:5 . . I say unto you: except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot
enter into the kingdom of God.

The water element of that procedure is explained in the very next chapter of John's
gospel where it's depicted as a supernatural liquid; and it's not for washing, rather,
it's a beverage and it's for drinking.

● John 4:10-14 . . If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.
Whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him
will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

And again:

● John 7:37-38 . . If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever
believes in me, as the scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from
within him.

The best part about living water is its price. There's no cost; none at all; and it's
available on request. All that anyone has to do is RSVP Christ and let him know
they're interested.

● Rev 22:17 . . Let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the
water of life freely.

The source of living water is neither on earth nor in the rain. The source is in
Heaven itself.

● Rev 22:1 . . And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal,
proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
_

 

[Truther]

What passage shows that Peter received such baptism?

Yeah, I'm laughing at your absurd assertions.

Acts 2:38

 

[Doug Brents]

~
The five unwise maidens are commonly faulted for their lack of sufficient oil, but
that was only minor compared to the ramifications of abandoning their posts.

Had they stuck to their guns (so to speak) they could've joined the procession
along with everyone else. They may have endured a measure of chagrin for letting
their lamps go out, but at least they wouldn't miss the party.

In other words; they let something relatively minor distract their attention from
something far more important; sort of like Nero concerning himself with trifles while
Rome is on fire all 'round the city.

This is an interesting take on this parable, and it has some good food for thought, but when we consider the parable of the wedding feast, in Matt 22:11 the man who was unprepared, like the virgins, was thrown into outer darkness. If God does not know us, then we will not be kept in the feast, even if we "make it in" in the first place.

And then anon the bridegroom protested he didn't know the five silly girls, but I'm
pretty sure he didn't know the other five either.

That is wild speculation.

The thing is: while the entrance
was open, the general public was welcome to come on in and join the celebration,
but once the door was shut and festivities commenced, late arrivals were permitted
inside only if they were the bridegroom's friends.

But as we see in Gal 4:9, while it is important that we know God, what is even more important is that He knows us. And He will know that He knows us by the cloths (or prepared lamp) that we bear.

This particular story has something to do with the kingdom of heaven so I believe
it's best to interpret the particulars relative to Jesus' return. (Matt 25:13)

** The maidens aren't banished to outer darkness in this story as are the folks in
Matt 8:11-12 and Matt 22:2-14
_

No, they were not banished, because they were already on the outside. They were like the people in Matt 7:23 who thought they knew God, but God did not know them. God only "knows" those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and these virgins, and the man not in wedding cloths, and the goats, etc. are not written in the Book.

 

[Fred]

Acts 2:38

No, it doesn't.

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.