The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Rowan]

The Bible does not say outright that the miraculous gifts have ceased.

 

[Truther]

All miraculous gifts have ceased as Paul said they would. There was a time and purpose for those gifts, that being, to bring about the inspired written word and confirmation of that word by those signs and this occurred by the end of the first century. So as Paul said, those signs would cease, come to an end as they did for they fulfilled their purpose and no longer are needed.

Scaffolding is used to build a building, but once the building is completed/perfected then the scaffolding is taken away, it's not needed anymore for it fulfilled its purpose. Likewise, those signs were used to bring about the completed word which they did by the end of the first century. So like the scaffolding, they fulfilled their purpose and no longer needed.

No one today possesses any miraculous signs, only claim to possess them. 1 Cor 12:29ff even in the first century church when they had miraculous signs, not all Christians had signs...
NASB: All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?
But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
And yet, I am going to show you a far better way.

So since all of the gifts are done away, as you say per 1 Corinthians 13, do you see Jesus face-to-face now?

 

[Seabass]

So since all of the gifts are done away, as you say per 1 Corinthians 13, do you see Jesus face-to-face now?

Nothing in the context says anything about seeing God or Christ face to face. The context is about when the complete revelation of God is finished compared to the gifts that gave the revelation in pieces. Hence the completed revelation will be like seeing a person face to face rather than looking in a mirror. In 1 Cor 13:10 the "complete" is being contasted to the "in part", that is, the complete revelation contrasted to the part by part, piece by piece revelation. Once the word is completed, one then comes face to face with the whole, complete WORD rather than looking through a cloudy mirror or the pieces of the word.

It's Paul, not me, that says the gifts would cease (1 Cor 13; Eph 4)

 

[360watt]

The 'face to face' of 1 co 13... Like Sea bass has posted... Is about God's Revelation thru the process of revelation in the gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge at that time. It's partial compared to complete. Whatever is partial is completed by what is complete. The second coming isn't the subject of 1 co 13.

There is other scripture that talks about Jesus being seen in the future 'face to face' ..so therefore 1 co 13 is not the main proof text for the cessation. But the context is different in each section of scripture.

Other scripture also talks of the Bible being a mirror... 'looking at the perfect law of liberty ' Plus like Sea bass posted... Ephesians 4 has a point of 'the knowledge of the unity of the faith'

The context of being confirmed until the coming of the Lord I think has a different subject than 1 co 12 and 13, but I need to look at that again.

 

[Johann]

To claim there is more than one kind of baptism that can save people today, then a person might as well claim there are more than one kind of lord and god that can save or more than one kind of faith that can save people today. To deny there is one baptism that saves, (or deny any of the "ones" of Eph 4:4-5) is to deny the very foundation of Christianity itself.

prophecy -call upon the name of the Lord IN ORDER to be saved
fulfillment - repent and be baptized IN ORDER to have remission of sins/saved

Immersed into Christ. Baptism designates conversion another way, in that it is associated with being plunged into or immersed in Christ.

In Galatians 3:26 Paul affirms that believers are God’s children in Christ Jesus through faith. The ground for this assertion is that all believers were clothed with Christ when they were baptized into Christ: “For as many as were baptized into Christ are clothed with Christ” Gal 3:27

BAPTISM

I. Baptism in the Jewish life

A. Baptism was a common rite among Jews of the first and second century.

1. preparation for worship at the temple (i.e., cleansing rite)

2. the self baptism of proselytes

If someone from a Gentile background were to become a full child of Israel, he had to accomplish three tasks:

a. circumcision, if male

b. self-baptism by immersion, in the presence of three witnesses

c. sacrifice in the Temple

3. an act of purification (cf. Leviticus 15)

In sectarian groups of first century Palestine, such as the Essenes, baptism was apparently a common, repeated experience. However, to mainline Judaism, John’s baptism of repentance would have been humiliating for a natural child of Abraham to undergo a Gentile acceptance ritual.

B. Some OT precedents can be cited for ceremonial washing.

1. as a symbol of spiritual cleansing (cf. Isa. 1:16)

2. as a regular ritual performed by the priests (cf. Exodus 19:10; Leviticus 16)

It should be noted that all other baptisms in first century Jewish culture were self-administered. Only John the Baptist's call for baptism involved him as an evaluator (cf. Matt. 3:7-12) and administrator of this act of repentance (cf. Matt. 3:6).



II. Baptism in the Church

A. Theological Purposes

1. forgiveness of sin – Acts 2:38; 22:16

2. reception of Holy Spirit – Acts 2:38 (Acts 10:44-48)

3. union with Christ – Gal. 3:26-27

4. membership in church – 1 Cor. 12:13

5. symbol of a spiritual turning – 1 Pet. 3:20-21

6. symbol of a spiritual death and resurrection – Rom. 6:1-5

B. Baptism was the early church’s opportunity for a person’s public profession (or confession). It was/is not the mechanism for salvation, but the occasion of the verbal affirmation of faith (i.e., probably, "Jesus is Lord"). Remember the early church had no buildings and met in homes or often in secret places because of persecution.

C. Many commentators have asserted that 1 Peter is a baptismal sermon. Although this is possible, it is not the only option. It is true that Peter often uses baptism as a crucial act of faith (cf. Acts 2:38,41;10:47). However, it was/is not a sacramental event, but a faith event, symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection as the believer identifies with Christ’s own experience (cf. Rom. 6:7-9; Col. 2:12). The act is symbolic, not sacramental; the act is the occasion of profession, not the mechanism of salvation.

III. Baptism and Repentance in Acts 2:38

Curtis Vaughan, Acts has an interesting footnote on p. 28 related to Acts 2:38.

"The Greek word for ‘baptized’ is a third person imperative; the word for ‘repent,’ a second person imperative. This change from the more direct second person command to the less direct third person of ‘baptized’ implies that Peter’s basic primary demand is for repentance."



This follows the preaching emphasis of John the Baptist (cf. Matt. 3:2) and Jesus (cf. Matt. 4:17). Repentance seems to be a spiritual key and baptism is an outward expression of this spiritual change. The New Testament knew nothing of unbaptized believers! To the early church baptism was the public profession of faith. It is the occasion for the public confession of faith in Christ, not the mechanism for salvation! It needs to be remembered that baptism is not mentioned in Peter’s second sermon, though repentance is (cf. Acts 3:19; Luke 24:17). Baptism was an example set by Jesus (cf. Matt. 3:13-18). Baptism was commanded by Jesus (cf. Matt. 28:19). The modern question of the necessity of baptism for salvation is not addressed in the New Testament; all believers are expected to be baptized. However, one must also guard against a sacramental mechanicalism! Salvation is a faith issue, not a right-place, right-words, right-ritual act issue!

 

[Johann]

Q. How do we reconcile the One Baptism as Ephesians 4 talks about with the different kinds mentioned in Scripture?
Hi Dr. Deffinbaugh,

I was wondering if you could help me with a question I have. I sincerely appreciate your Biblical insight.

Ephesians 4 speaks of “One baptism,” yet there are many baptisms mentioned in Scripture. My main hangup is with 1 Cor 12:13 and Matthew 28:19. How can there be just one baptism if Christ commanded water baptism in the Great Commission, yet there is also the fact of being baptized into the Body of Christ. Some say that 1 Cor 12:13 nullifies water baptism as there is to be just one baptism, which is 1 Cor 12:13.

Please share your thoughts as you are able.

Sincerely, *****

Answer
Dear Brother *****,

First of all, I don’t have a doctorate, so it’s just plan Bob.

I think the answer to your question might be found in Acts, chapters 10 and 11. Note the “two” uses of baptism here:

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days (Acts 10:44-48, NAU).

12 “The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man’s house. 13 “And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; 14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 “And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 “Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:12-18).

Peter is divinely instructed to go to the home of Cornelius, a Gentile. While he is still preaching the gospel, the Holy Spirit fell upon this group of new believers, just as it had happed to the Jewish believers at Pentecost. Both groups were “baptized by the Holy Spirit.” And so it was that Peter, seeing the God had baptized these Gentiles in the same way the Spirit baptized the Jews at Pentecost, he baptized them with water.

And when Peter is called on the carpet for going to a Gentile home and preaching the gospel, he repeated the story. His argument was, “When these Gentiles received the Holy Spirit (in the same way we did), I remembered that Jesus said that John the Baptist baptized with water, but He would baptize with the Holy Spirit. And since it was obvious that the Spirit had baptized these Gentiles, how could he refrain from baptizing them with water?

So there are two baptisms: There is the “one baptism” of the Holy Spirit, and the believer’s water baptism. When Ephesians speaks of “one baptism” Paul is talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. That happens only once. But when a person comes to faith (and is baptized by the Spirit), water baptism is the symbolic act that believers carry out, professing their identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. One “baptism” is done by the Holy Spirit. The other baptism is done by men. And both symbolize a person’s union with Christ.

To put it concisely, there is only one Spirit baptism, whereby the Spirit baptizes a new believer into one body (the body of Christ), and thus the new believer professes his or her new union with Christ by symbolically acting out their participation in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

I hope this helps,

Bob

 

[Truther]

Nothing in the context says anything about seeing God or Christ face to face. The context is about when the complete revelation of God is finished compared to the gifts that gave the revelation in pieces. Hence the completed revelation will be like seeing a person face to face rather than looking in a mirror. In 1 Cor 13:10 the "complete" is being contasted to the "in part", that is, the complete revelation contrasted to the part by part, piece by piece revelation. Once the word is completed, one then comes face to face with the whole, complete WORD rather than looking through a cloudy mirror or the pieces of the word.

It's Paul, not me, that says the gifts would cease (1 Cor 13; Eph 4)

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ....

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Seabass]

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ....

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Paul was speaking to the Corintians for they had gifts back in the first century.

Paul is NOT saying those gifts would last till the end of time no more than he is saying those Corintihans would last till the end of time.

The word 'end' can also mean utmost, the highest degree, that those Corinthians would be confirmed to the highest, utmost degree.
Paul already said those signs would cease, come to an end which they did around the end of the first century.

 

[Truther]

Paul was speaking to the Corintians for they had gifts back in the first century.

Paul is NOT saying those gifts would last till the end of time no more than he is saying those Corintihans would last till the end of time.

The word 'end' can also mean utmost, the highest degree, that those Corinthians would be confirmed to the highest, utmost degree.
Paul already said those signs would cease, come to an end which they did around the end of the first century.

The Lord returned in the first century?


7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ....

 

[Truther]

You think he meant this?...

7 So that GIFTS SHALL CEASE; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Seabass]

BAPTISM

I. Baptism in the Jewish life

A. Baptism was a common rite among Jews of the first and second century.

1. preparation for worship at the temple (i.e., cleansing rite)

2. the self baptism of proselytes

If someone from a Gentile background were to become a full child of Israel, he had to accomplish three tasks:

a. circumcision, if male

b. self-baptism by immersion, in the presence of three witnesses

c. sacrifice in the Temple

3. an act of purification (cf. Leviticus 15)

In sectarian groups of first century Palestine, such as the Essenes, baptism was apparently a common, repeated experience. However, to mainline Judaism, John’s baptism of repentance would have been humiliating for a natural child of Abraham to undergo a Gentile acceptance ritual.

B. Some OT precedents can be cited for ceremonial washing.

1. as a symbol of spiritual cleansing (cf. Isa. 1:16)

2. as a regular ritual performed by the priests (cf. Exodus 19:10; Leviticus 16)

It should be noted that all other baptisms in first century Jewish culture were self-administered. Only John the Baptist's call for baptism involved him as an evaluator (cf. Matt. 3:7-12) and administrator of this act of repentance (cf. Matt. 3:6).



II. Baptism in the Church

A. Theological Purposes

1. forgiveness of sin – Acts 2:38; 22:16

2. reception of Holy Spirit – Acts 2:38 (Acts 10:44-48)

3. union with Christ – Gal. 3:26-27

4. membership in church – 1 Cor. 12:13

5. symbol of a spiritual turning – 1 Pet. 3:20-21

6. symbol of a spiritual death and resurrection – Rom. 6:1-5

B. Baptism was the early church’s opportunity for a person’s public profession (or confession). It was/is not the mechanism for salvation, but the occasion of the verbal affirmation of faith (i.e., probably, "Jesus is Lord"). Remember the early church had no buildings and met in homes or often in secret places because of persecution.

C. Many commentators have asserted that 1 Peter is a baptismal sermon. Although this is possible, it is not the only option. It is true that Peter often uses baptism as a crucial act of faith (cf. Acts 2:38,41;10:47). However, it was/is not a sacramental event, but a faith event, symbolizing death, burial, and resurrection as the believer identifies with Christ’s own experience (cf. Rom. 6:7-9; Col. 2:12). The act is symbolic, not sacramental; the act is the occasion of profession, not the mechanism of salvation.

III. Baptism and Repentance in Acts 2:38

Curtis Vaughan, Acts has an interesting footnote on p. 28 related to Acts 2:38.

"The Greek word for ‘baptized’ is a third person imperative; the word for ‘repent,’ a second person imperative. This change from the more direct second person command to the less direct third person of ‘baptized’ implies that Peter’s basic primary demand is for repentance."



This follows the preaching emphasis of John the Baptist (cf. Matt. 3:2) and Jesus (cf. Matt. 4:17). Repentance seems to be a spiritual key and baptism is an outward expression of this spiritual change. The New Testament knew nothing of unbaptized believers! To the early church baptism was the public profession of faith. It is the occasion for the public confession of faith in Christ, not the mechanism for salvation! It needs to be remembered that baptism is not mentioned in Peter’s second sermon, though repentance is (cf. Acts 3:19; Luke 24:17). Baptism was an example set by Jesus (cf. Matt. 3:13-18). Baptism was commanded by Jesus (cf. Matt. 28:19). The modern question of the necessity of baptism for salvation is not addressed in the New Testament; all believers are expected to be baptized. However, one must also guard against a sacramental mechanicalism! Salvation is a faith issue, not a right-place, right-words, right-ritual act issue!

Baptism of the NT (Matt 28:19-20; Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; 1 Pet 3:21; etc) does save for God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves men (Col 2:11-12). Water baptism is the one baptism of Eph 4:4-5 that saves. To deny there is one baptism that saves one then denies the NT. One might as qwll deny there is one faith that saves or one God that saves or one Lord that saves if one denies the one baptism that saves.


=============

The change of persons in Acts 2:38 does not change the fact that baptism is commanded. The fact baptism (and repentance) are commanded make them both equal in being essential to salvation for disobeying God's commands is unrighteoiusness. God accepts those who work righteousness (Acts 10:35).

The fact repent is tied to baptized with the conjunction "and" makes them both equal in necesscity to having sins remitted. Peter did not tell one group to repent and different group to be baptized. The same group Peter commanded to repent is the same group he commanded to be baptized. Peter is saying you all (plural) repent and each of you all (plural) be baptized.

 

[Seabass]

The Lord returned in the first century?


7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ....

No, I was pointing out Paul did NOT say those signs would last till the end of time, would not last till the Lord returns no more than he was implying those Corinthians, who possessed signs, would last till the end of time

 

[Johann]

Baptism of the NT (Matt 28:19-20; Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; 1 Pet 3:21; etc) does save for God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves men (Col 2:11-12). Water baptism is the one baptism of Eph 4:4-5 that saves. To deny there is one baptism that saves one then denies the NT. One might as qwll deny there is one faith that saves or one God that saves or one Lord that saves if one denies the one baptism that saves.

Who says I am denying water baptism? Read the post again @Seabass.

 

[Seabass]

Who says I am denying water baptism? Read the post again @Seabass.

You posted: (my emp) Baptism was the early church’s opportunity for a person’s public profession (or confession). It was/is not the mechanism for salvation,

You are denying water baptism saves as I read this.

 

[Johann]

You posted: (my emp) Baptism was the early church’s opportunity for a person’s public profession (or confession). It was/is not the mechanism for salvation,

You are denying water baptism saves as I read this.

One question-is it water that saves you or the living Ruach?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thine heart that God ... raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart it is believed unto righteousness; and with the mouth it is confessed to obtain salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord of all is rich unto all that call upon Him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

As I understand it, Churches of Christ says that there are 5 NT requirements that one must meet in order to be saved: hearing of the word; faith in Christ; repentance; confession of faith; water baptism by immersion. Is this biblical?

I do not necessarily have a great awareness of the Church of Christ's traditions or beliefs. I would argue, however, strenuously with them that baptism is essential for salvation. One text strikes me as rather important along these lines: 1 Cor 1.14-17.

Paul says that he thanks God that he did not baptize very many folks because God sent him to proclaim the gospel. He is arguing against the Corinthians who were proclaiming allegiance to certain factions because of who the baptizer was, etc. But the point that is valuable for us today is that Paul is disassociating baptism from the gospel. The implicit contrast shows that baptism is not an essential part of saving faith.

Beyond that, I would say that the Churches of Christ have a naive biblical primitivism that keeps them from asking the right questions. They essentially argue that since there were no unbaptized believers in the NT (generally true, with one or two notable exceptions) that this practice must equate to a principle.

But that is hardly necessary, and results in some truly whacky conclusions if applied in other areas. Further, once one begins to think about the nature of the cross and what Christ accomplished, adding more requirements than trust in Christ to save is seen as adding to the gospel.

Indeed, I will be so bold as to say that when we add any of our own works to what Christ has done we diminish the value of the cross and elevate the ability of sinners beyond what they truly are capable of. The whole NT wreaks of this message, even though one might not find it in a chapter and verse (though several come close).

Paradoxical, is it not? No mention of hudati here.

 

[Seabass]

One question-is it water that saves you or the living Ruach?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Both water baptism saves and the Spirit of God saves. There is not just one thing only that saves but a combination of things that save....faith saves, repentance saves, confession saves, water baptism saves, the blood of Christ saves, grace saves....etc. Again savation is a combination of all these, not any one alone.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thine heart that God ... raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart it is believed unto righteousness; and with the mouth it is confessed to obtain salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord of all is rich unto all that call upon Him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

As I understand it, Churches of Christ says that there are 5 NT requirements that one must meet in order to be saved: hearing of the word; faith in Christ; repentance; confession of faith; water baptism by immersion. Is this biblical?

I do not necessarily have a great awareness of the Church of Christ's traditions or beliefs. I would argue, however, strenuously with them that baptism is essential for salvation. One text strikes me as rather important along these lines: 1 Cor 1.14-17.

Paul says that he thanks God that he did not baptize very many folks because God sent him to proclaim the gospel. He is arguing against the Corinthians who were proclaiming allegiance to certain factions because of who the baptizer was, etc. But the point that is valuable for us today is that Paul is disassociating baptism from the gospel. The implicit contrast shows that baptism is not an essential part of saving faith.

Beyond that, I would say that the Churches of Christ have a naive biblical primitivism that keeps them from asking the right questions. They essentially argue that since there were no unbaptized believers in the NT (generally true, with one or two notable exceptions) that this practice must equate to a principle.

But that is hardly necessary, and results in some truly whacky conclusions if applied in other areas. Further, once one begins to think about the nature of the cross and what Christ accomplished, adding more requirements than trust in Christ to save is seen as adding to the gospel.

Indeed, I will be so bold as to say that when we add any of our own works to what Christ has done we diminish the value of the cross and elevate the ability of sinners beyond what they truly are capable of. The whole NT wreaks of this message, even though one might not find it in a chapter and verse (though several come close).

Paradoxical, is it not? No mention of hudati here.

Paul does not mention repentance in Rom 10 but that does not mean repentance is unnecessary in being saved. The impenitent will be lost (Lk 13:3). Paul made repentance necessary in other letters he wrote (Rom 2:4-5) as he made water baptism essential to salvation (Gal 3:27; Col 2:11-12; etc).

The context of Romans 10 is NOT Paul giving a lesson to lost sinners on how to be converted but explaining why God cast off the Jews (Rom 11) from being His chosen people. And we see from Rom 10 the reason the Jews were cast off because they would not obey God but rather went about doing their OWN righteousness instead of doing GOD's righteousness. They were relying on their physical descendency from Abraham for their salvation.

So the issue Paul is addressing in Rom 10 is this; is salvation by physical descendency or is salvation by an obedient compliance to God's will. Paul points out that "whosoever" calls upon the name of the Lord with 'whosoever' not creating a distinction in race, "whosoever" includes Jew and Gentile. Paul addresses two areas, belief and confession, that both Jew and Gentile must be compliant to in order to be saved. Paul does not reveal all that is needed to be saved in verses 9, 10 as repentance, baptism, grace, blood of Christ...these must be found in seraching other verses. The Jews were lost for they were not compliant to God's will in believing or confessing...they would not 'obey the gospel" verse 16. The gospel must be obeyed or be in flaming fire (2 Thess 1:8). The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4). In Rom 6 when one becomes a Christian he must first die to sin, the old man of sin dies, is buried and raised up from, hence there is a death burial and resurrection that takes place in water baptism. Therefore water baptism is how one obeys the gospel. Though water baptism is not specifically mentioned it is there when Paul said they would not 'obey the gospel'.

 

[Doug Brents]

Both water baptism saves and the Spirit of God saves. There is not just one thing only that saves but a combination of things that save....faith saves, repentance saves, confession saves, water baptism saves, the blood of Christ saves, grace saves....etc. Again savation is a combination of all these, not any one alone.

I will just say that, without the blood of Christ, none of these other things save. But because of the blood of Christ, yes, all these other things are required to receive the benefit found in Christ's blood.

 

[360watt]

In talking about receiving the Holy Spirit... It's key to look at who is receiving it

If an entire group receives the Holy Spirit...that isn't about an individual receiving the Spirit for eternal life. That's a group of already indwelt believers getting empowered...becoming a congregation of God.

The context of 1 co 12 is a local church body...not the entity of all redeemed.

 

[Johann]

Both water baptism saves and the Spirit of God saves. There is not just one thing only that saves but a combination of things that save....faith saves, repentance saves, confession saves, water baptism saves, the blood of Christ saves, grace saves....etc. Again savation is a combination of all these, not any one alone.

Paul does not mention repentance in Rom 10 but that does not mean repentance is unnecessary in being saved. The impenitent will be lost (Lk 13:3). Paul made repentance necessary in other letters he wrote (Rom 2:4-5) as he made water baptism essential to salvation (Gal 3:27; Col 2:11-12; etc).

The context of Romans 10 is NOT Paul giving a lesson to lost sinners on how to be converted but explaining why God cast off the Jews (Rom 11) from being His chosen people. And we see from Rom 10 the reason the Jews were cast off because they would not obey God but rather went about doing their OWN righteousness instead of doing GOD's righteousness. They were relying on their physical descendency from Abraham for their salvation.

So the issue Paul is addressing in Rom 10 is this; is salvation by physical descendency or is salvation by an obedient compliance to God's will. Paul points out that "whosoever" calls upon the name of the Lord with 'whosoever' not creating a distinction in race, "whosoever" includes Jew and Gentile. Paul addresses two areas, belief and confession, that both Jew and Gentile must be compliant to in order to be saved. Paul does not reveal all that is needed to be saved in verses 9, 10 as repentance, baptism, grace, blood of Christ...these must be found in seraching other verses. The Jews were lost for they wee not compliant to God's will in beliving or confessing...they would not 'obey the gospel" verse 16. The godpel must be obeyed or be in flaming fire. The gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4). In Rom 6 when one becomes a Christian he must first die to sin, the old man of sin dies, is buried and raised up from, hence there is a death burial and resurrection that takes place in water baptism. Therefore water baptism is how one obeys the gospel. Though water baptism is not specifically mentioned it is there when Paul said they would not 'obey the gospel'.

Read my post again

 

[Truther]

No, I was pointing out Paul did NOT say those signs would last till the end of time, would not last till the Lord returns no more than he was implying those Corinthians, who possessed signs, would last till the end of time

If you read it, honestly, the verse says that the gifts will be in operation until the Lord returns. It will confirm them by their gifts.